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The power of myth to teach values

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
There are those who insist that the Bible does not contain any myth, because in their view, myth means it is a lie. Their sole way of reading literature is that it is either history and therefore true, or it is not history and therefore a lie. They do not show respect for mythology.

But myth is basically a genre that is not historical but imparts deeper truths and values. It's not whether Narnia exists, but what can we learn from the Chronicles of Narnia.

Allow me to show how deeply spiritual myth can be using The Lord of the Rings. One can learn a lot from this trilogy of books. It is filled with commentary on situations needing moral discernment, and teaches right behavior from the example of its protagonists. One could, if one wanted to, use the LOTR as a sacred text (although that would be highly unusual).j

Here are some examples:

On capital punishment
"Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. ... Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement.”

On terrible things happening in the world:
“I wish it need not have happened in my time,” said Frodo.
“So do I,” said Gandalf, “and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”

On the importance of loyalty:
“Faithless is he who says farewell when the road darkens”, said Gimli

On not looking at outward appearences:
“All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost.”

On the significance of small, individual acts
“The road must be trod, but it will be very hard. And neither strength nor wisdom will carry us far upon it. This quest may be attempted by the weak with as much hope as the strong. Yet it is oft the course of deeds that move the wheels of the world: Small hands do them because they must, while the eyes of the great are elsewhere.”

And just plain old wisdom:

“Advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise, and all courses may run ill.”

“He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom.”

“The wide world is all about you: you can fence yourselves in, but you cannot for ever fence it out.”

I could go on and on, and I haven't even finished offering quotes from the Fellowship of the Ring, which is only the first book.

There is just such spiritual richness and depth in this trilogy, which is certainly myth. It should make you really begin to respect myth.
 

Lain

Well-Known Member
There are those who insist that the Bible does not contain any myth, because in their view, myth means it is a lie. Their sole way of reading literature is that it is either history and therefore true, or it is not history and therefore a lie. They do not show respect for mythology.

But myth is basically a genre that is not historical but imparts deeper truths and values. It's not whether Narnia exists, but what can we learn from the Chronicles of Narnia.

Very true, myth does not have to mean mean lie, although it also isn't opposed to actual events. The Bible does indeed contain it. Thanks for the overview of LOTR, I need to read those books soon.
 

Jeremiah Ames

Well-Known Member
You mentioned a lot of short comments from LOTR.
But I don’t see how those comments from the story are myths, although they are wise and teach values.
I had to look up the definition of myth.
I would consider the garden of Eden story, and the flood story as myths, and definitely not history, but I’m not sure that makes them a lie, or useless.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
There's one classic example I know about. It was a question I had which was how can one be totally honest when circumstances appear to require lying. This story was offered as a true story and a model to be followed. It is repeated as factual but I've seen other versions with other motivations of the men chasing the girl, other honest heroes, other places she hid and so forth.

When sitting one day near the dakhma, he saw a figure running towards him along the cobbled path. This transpired to be a young Zoroastrian woman in a state of exhaustion and terror. She begged Sheriar to save her, explained that some Muslims were chasing her. The aggressors had tried to kidnap her at home, but she had escaped. Thinking quickly, the boy took her to the bakery nearby, helping her to get into the large oven, which was unused that day. He placed the lid on top, so that she could not be seen. Soon after, a group of Muslims arrived on horseback, demanding to know if he had seen a girl pass by. Choosing his words carefully, Sheriar said that he had not seen a dog pass by, and that no girl had run from this place. The intruders rode off. Sheriar had not told any lie, thus preserving the Zoroastrian code of truthfulness. The boy let the woman out of the oven and afterwards escorted her home. (20) Sheriar Mundegar Irani and Zoroastrianism
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
You mentioned a lot of short comments from LOTR.
But I don’t see how those comments from the story are myths, although they are wise and teach values.
I had to look up the definition of myth.
I would consider the garden of Eden story, and the flood story as myths, and definitely not history, but I’m not sure that makes them a lie, or useless.
The LOTR itself is a myth. It is a work of fiction containing elves, dwarves, demons, wizards, and of course hobbits. It is a classic hero's journey myth, where Frodo travels to the heart of darkness to cast the evil ring of power into the fires of a volcano, destroying it. It's author, JRR Tolkien had a love for mythology, and felt that England needed to have a myth just as the Norse had their myths and the Greeks had theirs.

Some of the very broad lessons that we learn from the LOTR are i.e. the significance of the common individual, and how evil works against itself.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
There's one classic example I know about. It was a question I had which was how can one be totally honest when circumstances appear to require lying. This story was offered as a true story and a model to be followed. It is repeated as factual but I've seen other versions with other motivations of the men chasing the girl, other honest heroes, other places she hid and so forth.

When sitting one day near the dakhma, he saw a figure running towards him along the cobbled path. This transpired to be a young Zoroastrian woman in a state of exhaustion and terror. She begged Sheriar to save her, explained that some Muslims were chasing her. The aggressors had tried to kidnap her at home, but she had escaped. Thinking quickly, the boy took her to the bakery nearby, helping her to get into the large oven, which was unused that day. He placed the lid on top, so that she could not be seen. Soon after, a group of Muslims arrived on horseback, demanding to know if he had seen a girl pass by. Choosing his words carefully, Sheriar said that he had not seen a dog pass by, and that no girl had run from this place. The intruders rode off. Sheriar had not told any lie, thus preserving the Zoroastrian code of truthfulness. The boy let the woman out of the oven and afterwards escorted her home. (20) Sheriar Mundegar Irani and Zoroastrianism
Fantstic story, thanks for sharing.

While I appreciate the effort to say no lies, there are simply times when you need to lie. If a nazi with a gun points to a Jew and asks you, "Is this woman a Jew," the only moral thing to do is to say, "No."
 

`mud

Just old
Premium Member
Myths are simply twisted realities to fit a present situation.

There's a little `truth` in most of them.

And...the stories are not necessarily the word from `God` or `gods`, probably not ....... `gods` don't speak.
 

amorphous_constellation

Well-Known Member
The LOTR itself is a myth. It is a work of fiction containing elves, dwarves, demons, wizards, and of course hobbits. It is a classic hero's journey myth, where Frodo travels to the heart of darkness to cast the evil ring of power into the fires of a volcano, destroying it. It's author, JRR Tolkien had a love for mythology, and felt that England needed to have a myth just as the Norse had their myths and the Greeks had theirs.

Well you must know that Tolkien was an Old Norse scholar, and that the Angles, Jutes, and Saxons came from Scandanavia, among other things.. I had read all of his books too, and now a sizable bit of Norse mythology. Tolkien actually takes like ninety percent of his material from Old Norse myth, which is potentially an even more fantastic universe of myth than what Tolkien created, when you think about it

If you are really a Tolkien fan, then I highly recommend you at least read a modern version of the Poetic Edda. You will immediately find where the material comes from. It has dwarves, elves, sorcerers, seers, and he even takes some of the character names from there.

There is a magic ring of power that curses, and in the saga of the volsungs, there is a dragon that hoards gold. That is the source material for all of it, and the stories are told in an even more mysterious and fantastic way, in my opinion. But yes, the Tolkien books are extremely good.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Well you must know that Tolkien was an Old Norse scholar, and that the Angles, Jutes, and Saxons came from Scandanavia, among other things.. I had read all of his books too, and now a sizable bit of Norse mythology. Tolkien actually takes like ninety percent of his material from Old Norse myth, which is potentially an even more fantastic universe of myth than what Tolkien created, when you think about it

If you are really a Tolkien fan, then I highly recommend you at least read a modern version of the Poetic Edda. You will immediately find where the material comes from. It has dwarves, elves, sorcerers, seers, and he even takes some of the character names from there.

There is a magic ring of power that curses, and in the saga of the volsungs, there is a dragon that hoards gold. That is the source material for all of it, and the stories are told in an even more mysterious and fantastic way, in my opinion. But yes, the Tolkien books are extremely good.
I have added the Edda to my list of books to read :) Thanks
 
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