The problem most people have with God.

[ThePainefulTruth]

People essentially can comprehend a deistic, non-interactive God. But when they try to work that into their belief system, they just revert emotionally to reacting to the interactive God they were indoctrinated to believe in since childhood. They keep coming back to, "Why would God let that happen?", or "Why didn't God stop that tsunami?" The concept of laissez-faire just evaporates.

We don't like living with doubt, but we either do that, or resign ourselves to God appearing to be irrational. The next time something bad happens to you, stop and think: deists in my spot are still sad or grieve as I do, but at least they don't have the soul-tormenting burden of wondering "Why?"

 

[Desert Snake]

Greetings...
Actually, the paradigm, that you are referring to, is not, how I understand theism, or theistic ideas. I'm not sure what you were taught, but it sounds like something i would avoid as well.

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

People essentially can comprehend a deistic, non-interactive God.

And yet, despite the fact that people have been around for tens of thousands of years, deism is a few centuries old and theism not much older.

But when they try to work that into their belief system, they just revert emotionally to reacting to the interactive God they were indoctrinated to believe in since childhood.

To the extent this is true, it is true of everybody, and thus irrelevant.

They keep coming back to, "Why would God let that happen?", or "Why didn't God stop that tsunami?" The concept of laissez-faire just evaporates.

Ditto for "pro" arguments/positions/worldviews.

We don't like living with doubt, but we either do that, or resign ourselves to God appearing to be irrational.

Or some alternative, such as that which humans have embraced for most of our existence, given that God (capital G) is younger even than Judaism. You portray a dichotomy that is not epistemically, historically, or philosophically justified.

The next time something bad happens to you, stop and think: deists in my spot are still sad or grieve as I do, but at least they don't have the soul-tormenting burden of wondering "Why?"

The founders of deism did. So too did the founder of agnosticism. Asking "why?" is not something tied to conceptions of god or even beliefs in god.

 

[Deathbydefault]

People essentially can comprehend a deistic, non-interactive God. But when they try to work that into their belief system, they just revert emotionally to reacting to the interactive God they were indoctrinated to believe in since childhood. They keep coming back to, "Why would God let that happen?", or "Why didn't God stop that tsunami?" The concept of laissez-faire just evaporates.

We don't like living with doubt, but we either do that, or resign ourselves to God appearing to be irrational. The next time something bad happens to you, stop and think: deists in my spot are still sad or grieve as I do, but at least they don't have the soul-tormenting burden of wondering "Why?"

The issue I have with god(s) is that if they are real they don't care enough to prove it.

 

[allfoak]

God is irrational to the faculty of reason.
It is only through the irrational faculty of intuition that we can know the truth.
Reason belongs to the material world, without it we would not be able to function here.
Intuition and imagination are for the purpose of understanding Spirit.

 

[allfoak]

The issue I have with god(s) is that if they are real they don't care enough to prove it.

How would you suggest God should do this?

 

[Deathbydefault]

How would you suggest God should do this?

Perhaps by popping in to say hello maybe once every thousand years... it's not much to ask of a freaking god.

 

[allfoak]

Perhaps by popping in to say hello maybe once every thousand years... it's not much to ask of a freaking god.

I'm not trying to be a jerk here but what do you mean by that?
How should God pop in and say hello?
What specifically should he do?

 

[Deathbydefault]

I'm not trying to be a jerk here but what do you mean by that?
How should God pop in and say hello?
What specifically should he do?

Telepathically talk to everyone at once and record it at the same time then give us the copy to go to for evidence whenever we so please.
Or something along those lines, there's a thousand ways a god could prove its existence.

 

[allfoak]

Telepathically talk to everyone at once and record it at the same time then give us the copy to go to for evidence whenever we so please.
Or something along those lines, there's a thousand ways a god could prove its existence.

We are told to seek him out.
Do you think that he would hide from those who seek for him?

We are told to seek him out because it is through the process of seeking that we grow in knowledge of him.
If God were to just open our eyes to the truth all at once it would literally kill us.
He shows us his attributes through creation, that includes us.

 

[Deathbydefault]

We are told to seek him out.
Do you think that he would hide from those who seek for him?

We are told to seek him out because it is through the process of seeking that we grow in knowledge of him.
If God were to just open our eyes to the truth all at once it would literally kill us.
He shows us his attributes through creation, that includes us.

That's neat.
Not to be 'that guy' or anything, but last time I checked god was omnipotent.
If it can't even make us capable of understanding it through words, it isn't god.

There are tons of arguments that dance around the issue, plenty of ways to avoid critical thinking on the subject.
"Seek god out" or "find god within your inner peace" or "god is all of us and everything we imagine".
I don't buy it, there are tons of atheists that were religious for extended periods of time and did these things without an answer.
Matt Dillahunty is the best example at hand, a fundamentalist christian for 25 years who became a super skeptical atheist because of these questions.

The being you worship or pray to or seek might be real, but that in no way makes it god.
In no way can you show me that it is a god, and you have already given me a reason to think it isn't omnipotent.
You would think a god would be straightforward, a powerful force able to become or create anything, not some hides in the shadows inner feeling.

 

[allfoak]

That's neat.
Not to be 'that guy' or anything, but last time I checked god was omnipotent.
If it can't even make us capable of understanding it through words, it isn't god.

There are tons of arguments that dance around the issue, plenty of ways to avoid critical thinking on the subject.
"Seek god out" or "find god within your inner peace" or "god is all of us and everything we imagine".
I don't buy it, there are tons of atheists that were religious for extended periods of time and did these things without an answer.
Matt Dillahunty is the best example at hand, a fundamentalist christian for 25 years who became a super skeptical atheist because of these questions.

The being you worship or pray to or seek might be real, but that in no way makes it god.
In no way can you show me that it is a god, and you have already given me a reason to think it isn't omnipotent.
You would think a god would be straightforward, a powerful force able to become or create anything, not some hides in the shadows inner feeling.

I'm sorry you feel this way.
I left Christianity many, many years ago for much the same reason.
Abandoning the search however, was never something i even considered.
I had already proven to myself that God is knowable, or more accurately, my eternal Soul is accessible.
I didn't really understand what it meant to have an eternal soul back then.

 

[Deathbydefault]

I'm sorry you feel this way.
I left Christianity many, many years ago for much the same reason.
Abandoning the search however, was never something i even considered.
I had already proven to myself that God is knowable, or more accurately, my eternal Soul is accessible.
I didn't really understand what it meant to have an eternal soul back then.

I refer to reliable evidence, that of which no god claim has.
You can sit and say god is real, that it can be proven and that my soul is eternal.
If you can't prove it then I don't care, it will be dismissed and filled into the 'philosophy' category of my mind.

There's a reason everyone isn't the same religion, what you've said to me I could hear from 50 people from 50 religions.
It's not unique, it's not factual or objective, it's blind argumentation for a being you have a strong feeling exists.
I have a strong feeling it doesn't, I suppose we're equal on the playing field of philosophical discussion.

 

[allfoak]

have a strong feeling it doesn't, I suppose we're equal on the playing field of philosophical discussion.

This is not out of the ordinary.
If it wasn't for people like you, people like me would not exist, so thank you.
I mean that.
We all have a place in this world, not everyone has to accept, nor will everyone accept the existence of God.
We are all here under different circumstances.
In other words, we all think differently for a reason.
There should be no judgement, and from me, there is none.

 

[Deathbydefault]

This is not out of the ordinary.
If it wasn't for people like you, people like me would not exist, so thank you.
I mean that.
We all have a place in this world, not everyone has to accept, nor will everyone accept the existence of God.
We are all here under different circumstances.
In other words, we all think differently for a reason.
There should be no judgement, and from me, there is none.

I don't judge you, not really.
You are who you are and that's the way it is.

But, from my point of view, I think you have something reversed.
It is because there are people that believe in god(s) that there are people who don't.
If the god argument was never even made then atheists and no-believers never would have existed.
Which would make me normal... scary thought.

 

[allfoak]

I don't judge you, not really.
You are who you are and that's the way it is.

But, from my point of view, I think you have something reversed.
It is because there are people that believe in god(s) that there are people who don't.
If the god argument was never even made then atheists and no-believers never would have existed.
Which would make me normal... scary thought.

Not sure that is historically accurate but you and i are likely going to clash when it comes to most things.
You may be a perfect match. lol

The only way any of us learn anything is through contrast and i think i found some.
This is the reason things are the way they are in the world.
It is the reason why bad things happen to good people.
It is the reason that God is not so easily found by some and easily found by others.
And on and on the answers come.
Not questions answers.

 

[rusra02]

People essentially can comprehend a deistic, non-interactive God. But when they try to work that into their belief system, they just revert emotionally to reacting to the interactive God they were indoctrinated to believe in since childhood. They keep coming back to, "Why would God let that happen?", or "Why didn't God stop that tsunami?" The concept of laissez-faire just evaporates.

We don't like living with doubt, but we either do that, or resign ourselves to God appearing to be irrational. The next time something bad happens to you, stop and think: deists in my spot are still sad or grieve as I do, but at least they don't have the soul-tormenting burden of wondering "Why?"

I believe the true God has clearly answered the question "Why?" in the Bible. I think many people simply don't like the answer. And it doesn't help that many religious leaders who claim to represent God cannot or will not explain why God permits suffering.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

People essentially can comprehend a deistic, non-interactive God. But when they try to work that into their belief system, they just revert emotionally to reacting to the interactive God they were indoctrinated to believe in since childhood. They keep coming back to, "Why would God let that happen?", or "Why didn't God stop that tsunami?" The concept of laissez-faire just evaporates.

How so? Questions of why God permits suffering are about God's *capabilities*. Even if you think that God doesn't choose to intervene, he still either can't or can but doesn't, and both possibilities create problems.

If you answer the question "why was God apathetic to suffering in *this* instance?" with "well, God's just always apathetic," you haven't actually answered the question.

We don't like living with doubt, but we either do that, or resign ourselves to God appearing to be irrational. The next time something bad happens to you, stop and think: deists in my spot are still sad or grieve as I do, but at least they don't have the soul-tormenting burden of wondering "Why?"

The question of "why" is really about God's will. There are plenty of deists who still believe that everything happens according to God's will; they just believe that their God is capable enough that he doesn't have to tweak and adjust his creation to keep it on track.

For those sorts of deists, the question of "why?" still remains: why would God will this? That question is just as valid if God set things in motion at the beginning of Creation for the horrible event to happen now as it is if God did the action directly by his own hand. Wilful is wilful.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I believe the true God has clearly answered the question "Why?" in the Bible. I think many people simply don't like the answer.

The answer in Job is really a non-answer. It has God saying, effectively, "you're too puny to even ask this question. I'm big and strong enough that you can't do anything about my decisions, so I don't have to answer to you."

The Bible leaves the actual question unanswered.

 

[Estro Felino]

People essentially can comprehend a deistic, non-interactive God. But when they try to work that into their belief system, they just revert emotionally to reacting to the interactive God they were indoctrinated to believe in since childhood. They keep coming back to, "Why would God let that happen?", or "Why didn't God stop that tsunami?" The concept of laissez-faire just evaporates.

We don't like living with doubt, but we either do that, or resign ourselves to God appearing to be irrational. The next time something bad happens to you, stop and think: deists in my spot are still sad or grieve as I do, but at least they don't have the soul-tormenting burden of wondering "Why?"

Do you know why all this happens? Because in these last 2000 years people have never stopped glorifying God's greatness, underlining His Omnipotence and His Omniscience. They go on believing that such a God exists, while these characteristics are just unrealistic and incompatible with the nature of Universe, where any thing is free.
When people understand what free will really is, they will suddenly stop believing in an Omniscient God that can control everything. They will realize that freedom implies choice, and choice implies the burden of responsibility. Our actions are indelible, because they will have consequences, and God has nothing to do with them.
That's why we should stop thinking of God, both in the good moments and in the bad ones.

I believe the true God has clearly answered the question "Why?" in the Bible..

Really? Where is this answer? I've never found it.