The Problem of "Belief"

[dybmh]

some orthodox Jews believe that if ever a Torah were copied containing an error, the universe would collapse

Sorry, i think this is an exaggeration.

 

[sooda]

I should preface by stating I understand the religions of Christianity and Islam to be idol worship: both utilize a (dead; non-existent) male central figure that serves as a model for the citizens of an empire. In both cases each utilize a book(s) which outlines the nature/behavior of such a central figure to be imitated, emulated, regarded as the perfect "pattern of conduct" etc.

The Syriac-speaking Christians (who resided in and around the Arabian Peninsula pre-Islam) had many hymnal texts which:

i. Would later serve as the basis for the early Qur'an, and
ii. Referred to Jesus as "the praised one" and/or "mercy upon mankind"

Over time such titles in ii. gradually "migrated" and began describing the characteristics of an Arabian prophet who would only surface by the late 7th century.

To add more to the mix, such religious institutions invariably rely on Judaism as having served as the soil bed from whence to arise. Similarly, Judaism utilizes a (series of) male central figure(s) who serve(d) as role models.

And herein we arrive at the problem of "belief".

Both Judaism and Islam uniquely "believe" that they are in possession of the perfect, inimitable, unaltered, inerrant word of god. In the case of the former, some orthodox Jews believe that if ever a Torah were copied containing an error, the universe would collapse because G-d made the universe with the 22 Hebrew letters and Torah. In the case of the latter, the Qur'an is regarded by Muslims as the Highest authority on the planet which over-rides all non-Muslim nations' laws which they claim to be "man-made". In reality, both the Torah and Qur'an are man-made.

Invariably such "beliefs" still centrally reside as the thousands-year-old human conflict(s) based in the Middle East. Jews "believe" they were delivered by a Jewish Moses under guidance from the creator of the universe as they await their Messiah (rejecting Jesus), and Muslims "believe" similar of their prophet Muhammad who is similarly rejected by the Jews (and rightly so as with Jesus).

However we know that the Torah has at least 3 authors, and at least in its current form (and script) does not resemble anything that can not be explained by the handiwork of man. Similar is true for the Qur'an: it is compiled from numerous sources, many of which were in a different language (Syriac) entirely. It is certain that neither the Torah nor the Qur'an are the perfect word of god, but the Jews and Muslims "believe" such things to be true - it is the basis of their entire way of being.

Similarly, Christians "believe" in Jesus and the Gospel accounts of him. They also seem to "believe" that he was either god or in some way in perfect union with god, and sacrificed himself for the sins of all of mankind - hence derived "mercy upon mankind" which Muhammad would later seemingly usurp. The problem, simply then, is if such an event as the crucifixion and resurrection did not actually occur, Christianity is similarly false and loosely based in "belief".

It is nothing short of curious that the life and death of Jesus should imitate the behavior of the sun: being "dead" for three days beginning Dec. 21 only to rise on Dec. 25 - a special day for the Christian world if only they actually watched it happen in the sky. I still weep at the souls who don't see the connection and thus derive that Jesus is a model / idol of the sun, as were countless solar deities and/or crucified messianic missionaries that preceded him from an array of cultures.

Given all of this, and re-striking the bell of the understanding that Christianity and Islam (as well as Judaism to a certain extent) are essentially idol worshiping institutions which rely on "belief" of things that are not actually true, I derive the following:

"Belief is not a virtue."

much to the detriment of the Muhammadans who overtly call themselves "believers". The entire basis of Islam (and much of the Abrahamic world) can be dismissed based on the premise that "belief" is not a virtue, if not for the fact that both the Torah and Qur'an are man-made. One can therefrom surmise naturally that remainder of the Bible the same is true.

"Belief" has no substance: it is essentially a projection. This is how numerous denominations of idolatrous schemes can arise: each denomination projects his/her own unique "imagination" of who, for example, Jesus or who Muhammad is/was (this occurring already after "believing" they existed, which is a problem in and of itself). For example many different denominations of Christianity exist on the basis of what Jesus did and/or did not allow/accept, including things like drinking coffee/alcohol. Islam has similar problems: who was the most rightful heir after Muhammad's fall? Here we have Sunni vs. Shia, a 1400-year-old war within Islam itself. The idol worshipers fight over such things, and the many hundreds of millions are fallen.

Ultimately this "belief" and "idol worship" have been the most prime sources of human suffering and death on this planet. I predict that the greatest obstacle facing humanity is outright flatly rejecting "belief" as a basis of existence (or anything *thing* for that matter) - for it is actually the opposite; namely, illusion and without a basis in reality. "Belief" is therefor the principle conduit for outright insanity: a charge I do not withhold from institutions such as Islam (in agreement with China's recent declaration that Islam is a mental illness). Christianity is similar: though at least humanity had the decency not to make Jesus into a sexually degenerated pedophile war lord that preyed on the weak and vulnerable (women/children) as is the case with Muhammad and Islam. There are certainly varying degrees of insanity - "belief" is common throughout.

Christmas isn't the resurrection. It celebrates the birth of Jesus.

 

[9-18-1]

Here's an alternative view: the Creator of the material world - who does not have our interests at heart - demanded of Cain and Abel a sacrifice, an animal sacrifice, because the Creator loves bloody sacrifices (as borne out by later demands of e.g. Abraham and Jesus). Abel obeyed, Cain did not. For Abel was a servant of the lower Creator god, but Cain a servant of the Highest God, Who does not demand such things. And it came to a fight between the two, which Cain won.

Here is yet another: the fall of man culminates into the spilling of the seed (orgasm) which gives birth to Cain. Therefor Cain carries the iniquity and possess some "animal" nature which needs to be shed in order to reverse the original sin. As such animal sacrifice is eliminating all that is animal *within* such that it can be replaced with human. This requires a conscience and/or conscious will to make better decisions not rooted in materialism (tiller of the soil) but of spirit: the fat of the animal, which is the inner effort one makes to shed the animal nature from within. Again - this requires conscious will and, ultimately, recognition that one *contains* animal nature.

Over 98% of human DNA is identical to that of a chimpanzee. The animal/human sacrificing-loving interpretation of even the God of Abraham can really only be arrived at by someone looking for something to hate on.

This sounds a bit like an anti-Muslim rant to me. I'm more interested in how your ideas apply to a range of other belief systems/religions.

I don't recognize "anti-Muslim" as anything, but I'll expound on the rant. If Muslims can not stand criticisms of their religion, yet hate the Jews, why are they doing the same things as the Jews? Such as: if you criticize our religion you are anti-Muslim / Islamophobe. Sound familiar? If you criticize our religion, you are antisemitic. Same sentiment: and I thus have little to no regard for people that choose to recognize and/or normalize such a pathetic sentiment as this.

Muslims are doing absolutely everything they are accusing the Jews of: it is like the Jew is the scapegoat to distract away from what the Muslims themselves are doing. This is a form of psychological projection and actually is a mental illness: just as China openly stated on the global platform, Islam is a mental illness.

I am not the one calling for endless war against people who don't "believe". If Muslims are going to kill people because they refuse to "believe" what they "believe": especially when the "belief" is absolutely and rather obviously false, there is no anti-Muslim anything possible, and any Muslim who can not stand even considering that what they "believe" is not true, is not my problem. It is theirs, just like everything else is their own problem, like imbuing man-made books and sexual degenerates as holy things.

Oh no, poor Muslims! Always persecuted!

Meanwhile 270 000 000 are dead at the hands of Muhammadans. And the stupid people *still* don't see the problem / hypocrisy.

Muslim = Jew

Both have the same false belief: that they are in possession of the perfect word of god (both Torah and Qur'an are man-made) and some male idol is their prophet and final authority on all matters, including over-riding "other" laws of "other" people's lands, such as the "disbelievers" and/or "infidels".

Islam shames women, but Biblical Christianity is not about, nor does Christianity endorse patriarchal institutions. On the contrary, the Bible exposes the sinful practices of wicked men in history. Christianity is not a religion, it is a relationship with the living Creator.

I don't know where you access you ideas, but I don't see and objective evidence that the so-called knowledge you are espousing other than you imagination.

Christianity is a patriarchal system: you sound just as wrapped up as the Muhammad trying to suggest Islam is *not* a patriarchal system, which is obviously a ridiculous claim as it is.

The sinful practices of wicked men were the same people who wrote the Bible - essentially you are talking about the Hyksos/Canaanites/Jews. They took what they could from Egypt and made it as Jewish as they could. It started with turning an Egyptian king into a Hebrew/Jewish one, which is the central falsification in Judaism and essentially renders it, along with Islam, completely false.

Christianity is essentially a really, really watered down version of kabbalah: father/son/holy spirit is keser/chokmah/binah: the triunity at the top of the tree of life. It is crowned wisdom and understanding: truth of the way of life. Jesus represents chokmah: the son, wisdom. Indeed there is much wisdom in the teachings attributed to Jesus, but there is no wisdom in worshiping him as an idol: he was just a regular man. His "deification" is illegitimate, which is one of the things Islam actually gets correct. I agree with Islam in their rejection of Jesus (as with the Jews) and obviously the Jews likewise hate that their Jewish Messiah was made into a Greek idol. The Jew and Muslim are allied in their effort to destroy Christianity, which is why almost every single Jewish organization supports mass immigration: they want Jesus gone forever, and they are using the Muhammadans to do it.

Christianity will be gone in a few decades: wherever Islam takes its place, that place will destroy itself because Islam destroys everything it comes into contact with over time.

Sorry, i think this is an exaggeration.

One would hope: but this most certainly is *not* an exaggeration when describing the early, early Jews of say circa 500 BCE. They absolutely believed this - that if a Torah were copied incorrectly, the universe would collapse because G-d made the universe with the letters and Torah. This is in the Zohar in many places and is still taught as more or less "true" but of course even modern "orthodox" Jews might not actually believe this to a paranoid delusional level as with the early Jews.

 

[sooda]

Islam shames women, but Biblical Christianity is not about, nor does Christianity endorse patriarchal institutions. On the contrary, the Bible exposes the sinful practices of wicked men in history. Christianity is not a religion, it is a relationship with the living Creator.

I don't know where you access you ideas, but I don't see and objective evidence that the so-called knowledge you are espousing other than you imagination.

Islam gives women rights that didn't exist until 1950.

 

[sooda]

In Genesis 3 , Adam and Eve sinned (in part due to Satan’s actions) and were kicked out of the Garden of Eden. According to Scripture, this happened prior to conceiving their first child, Cain (Genesis 4:1).

Genesis 5:3 indicates that Adam had Seth at age 130 and Genesis 4:25 indicates this took place after Cain killed Abel. Adam had at least three children before Seth: Cain (Genesis 4:1), Cain’s wife1 (Genesis 4:17), and Abel (Genesis 4:2). Since Cain and Abel were old enough to work with crops and herds, respectively, the maximum time before the Fall would have to be much less than 130 years.

 

[9-18-1]

Christmas isn't the resurrection. It celebrates the birth of Jesus.

If you're speaking from the perspective of how a Christian perceives it, yes I understand, but the birth of Jesus is derived from the birth of the sun on Dec. 25 because that is when it begins its trajectory back upward towards the "heavens". Therefor the event on Dec. 25 is "coincidentally" the same day which contains: i. birth of sun ii. birth of Jesus.

Or in other words: Jesus = the sun. This is the part idol worshiping Christians aren't able to handle, because it renders Jesus as a rather idolatrous depiction of the sun, which was only ever meant to be understood as the sun. That is technically what a "gospel" is: circular movement of the sun, and there are four because there are four solstices and equinoxes within that circle (wave). That is why the nativity of Jesus is only present in two of four gospels: they are all describing the sun from different starting/ending points.

It is only in this context can one understand these gospels and realize Jesus is constantly moving through (and with) the twelve zodiacal signs and their associated characteristics according to the season. This is where all "12"'s come from in any scripture: the twelve "houses" in the sky. These are the same as the twelve tribes of Israel etc. Different cultures denote these twelve slices of 30 degrees of arc: most common is Aries, Taurus, Gemini etc. but the twelve tribes of Israel have equivalent name which are referring to the same thing.

So it might actually be the Christian who is truly confused here - Christmas day marks the "birth" of the (new) sun, but only after it has been dead for three days on the cross (crux constellation). So the resurrection/birth, even though depicted as different things in Christianity, are actually the same solar event in the sky. There was no historical Jesus that died on a cross: he was switched out and replaced, just as the Muslims claim. They stripped Jesus of his "mercy upon mankind" status and imbued Muhammad with it, so now the Muslims essentially treat (worship) Muhammad as their savior. That is why they spill blood over criticisms of him, just as the Christians spilled blood over their Jesus.

Now do we understand what is idol worship, and why it is forbidden in the ten commandments, of all places? Christians and Muslims are, just by virtue of being Christians and Muslims, are profusely violating this commandment, not to mention the false testimony commandment. What do Christians have to testify to in order to become a Christian? What do Muslims have to testify to in order to join Islam? Why do these religions require testimonies?

Maybe so when they meet G-d, they will be shown where they broke the commandments, how/why, what it lead to, and how not breaking them could have made things different which involved less suffering. Isn't that what the Israelites were promised, a land free from the oppression of the Egyptians? Well, Moses broke it down into ten simple laws, and neither the Christian nor the Muslim even understands them commandments.

And it's pathetic that this is coming from someone who does not even "believe" in this god. However, I do know that these commandments are derivative and a condensed form of the 42 Egyptian laws of Ma'at, and every initiate had to know them and be prepared to confess (int he afterlife) that he/she did not violate any one of these 42 laws. So they were originally a part of Egypt in an expanded form.

If you take a copy of the ten commandments, a copy of the (real) life of the historical Muhammad, and measure his actions against these ten commandments, he violates every single one of them to the point of losing count - not to mention the initial eating the forbidden fruits relating to fornication/adultery. Apparently he had the sexual strength of thirty men: a (idolatrous) trait that appeals to both men and women. The spoils of jihad are women rendering warzones essentially brothels of rape, and the image of heaven the Muhammadans imagine is full of 72 virgin women. So both terrestrial and celestial life are full of brothel sex orgies.

Sexual degeneracy - root of evil. It is the first story in the entire Bible. Islam is full of sexual degeneracy, as the idol of Islam is the manifestation of this: pedophilia and forcing women to obey men at all times. It is not human, neither animal: it is something much less than that - Satanic. And this is an argument I can prove to a rather certainty: Islam is objectively Satanic. really, any "belief"-based system is Satanic, because Satanism involves binding someone to something. Binding adherents to an idol such as Jesus and Muhammad is Satanism. I know that probably sounds the opposite of what is true to those bound to those idols, but that is the reality as "belief" is a bind. It is never a source of freedom or liberation.

 

[sooda]

If you're speaking from the perspective of how a Christian perceives it, yes I understand, but the birth of Jesus is derived from the birth of the sun on Dec. 25 because that is when it begins its trajectory back upward towards the "heavens". Therefor the event on Dec. 25 is "coincidentally" the same day which contains: i. birth of sun ii. birth of Jesus.

Or in other words: Jesus = the sun. This is the part idol worshiping Christians aren't able to handle, because it renders Jesus as a rather idolatrous depiction of the sun, which was only ever meant to be understood as the sun. That is technically what a "gospel" is: circular movement of the sun, and there are four because there are four solstices and equinoxes within that circle (wave). That is why the nativity of Jesus is only present in two of four gospels: they are all describing the sun from different starting/ending points.

It is only in this context can one understand these gospels and realize Jesus is constantly moving through (and with) the twelve zodiacal signs and their associated characteristics according to the season. This is where all "12"'s come from in any scripture: the twelve "houses" in the sky. These are the same as the twelve tribes of Israel etc. Different cultures denote these twelve slices of 30 degrees of arc: most common is Aries, Taurus, Gemini etc. but the twelve tribes of Israel have equivalent name which are referring to the same thing.

So it might actually be the Christian who is truly confused here - Christmas day marks the "birth" of the (new) sun, but only after it has been dead for three days on the cross (crux constellation). So the resurrection/birth, even though depicted as different things in Christianity, are actually the same solar event in the sky. There was no historical Jesus that died on a cross: he was switched out and replaced, just as the Muslims claim. They stripped Jesus of his "mercy upon mankind" status and imbued Muhammad with it, so now the Muslims essentially treat (worship) Muhammad as their savior. That is why they spill blood over criticisms of him, just as the Christians spilled blood over their Jesus.

Now do we understand what is idol worship, and why it is forbidden in the ten commandments, of all places? Christians and Muslims are, just by virtue of being Christians and Muslims, are profusely violating this commandment, not to mention the false testimony commandment. What do Christians have to testify to in order to become a Christian? What do Muslims have to testify to in order to join Islam? Why do these religions require testimonies?

Maybe so when they meet G-d, they will be shown where they broke the commandments, how/why, what it lead to, and how not breaking them could have made things different which involved less suffering. Isn't that what the Israelites were promised, a land free from the oppression of the Egyptians? Well, Moses broke it down into ten simple laws, and neither the Christian nor the Muslim even understands them commandments.

And it's pathetic that this is coming from someone who does not even "believe" in this god. However, I do know that these commandments are derivative and a condensed form of the 42 Egyptian laws of Ma'at, and every initiate had to know them and be prepared to confess (int he afterlife) that he/she did not violate any one of these 42 laws. So they were originally a part of Egypt in an expanded form.

If you take a copy of the ten commandments, a copy of the (real) life of the historical Muhammad, and measure his actions against these ten commandments, he violates every single one of them to the point of losing count - not to mention the initial eating the forbidden fruits relating to fornication/adultery. Apparently he had the sexual strength of thirty men: a (idolatrous) trait that appeals to both men and women. The spoils of jihad are women rendering warzones essentially brothels of rape, and the image of heaven the Muhammadans imagine is full of 72 virgin women. So both terrestrial and celestial life are full of brothel sex orgies.

Sexual degeneracy - root of evil. It is the first story in the entire Bible. Islam is full of sexual degeneracy, as the idol of Islam is the manifestation of this: pedophilia and forcing women to obey men at all times. It is not human, neither animal: it is something much less than that - Satanic. And this is an argument I can prove to a rather certainty: Islam is objectively Satanic. really, any "belief"-based system is Satanic, because Satanism involves binding someone to something. Binding adherents to an idol such as Jesus and Muhammad is Satanism. I know that probably sounds the opposite of what is true to those bound to those idols, but that is the reality as "belief" is a bind. It is never a source of freedom or liberation.

There are no 72 virgins in Islam. The Koran does talk about transparent companions.. angels.

Aisha was 17 or 18 when she married because she was born before the Call. Peadophilia is a death penalty offense in most of the Arab world.

Women couldn't survive in the harsh conditions of Arabia without the protection of a family, clan and tribe... Widows, unmarried women, wives of enemy combatants all had to have a husband.

There are some 30 allegories in the Koran that describe heaven (paradise) They range from cool and green, to low hanging fruit, to rivers of milk and wine that won't make a person drunk, to cool clean water... and an abundance of fine foods.

In our Bible we have "my father's house has many mansions".

Basically you don't know anything about Islam.. You might want to back up and try again.

 

[9-18-1]

Islam gives women rights that didn't exist until 1950.

Yeah, that's not even remotely close to true at all.

In Genesis 3 , Adam and Eve sinned (in part due to Satan’s actions) and were kicked out of the Garden of Eden. According to Scripture, this happened prior to conceiving their first child, Cain (Genesis 4:1).

Genesis 5:3 indicates that Adam had Seth at age 130 and Genesis 4:25 indicates this took place after Cain killed Abel. Adam had at least three children before Seth: Cain (Genesis 4:1), Cain’s wife1 (Genesis 4:17), and Abel (Genesis 4:2). Since Cain and Abel were old enough to work with crops and herds, respectively, the maximum time before the Fall would have to be much less than 130 years.

Satan is anything that binds: whatever makes ones life an expression of their being bound in an ongoing state. That is what the word "Satan" means: bound in an ongoing state. It is not a "thing", it is something people themselves to do themselves without realizing it. For example, "belief" is Satanic because it binds people in an ongoing state.

When sex(ual degeneracy) (Eve) controls and/or commands the brain (Adam) this is the fall of man. Adam and Eve are/were not historical people that lived thousands of years ago. Eve is the latent sexual drive of any being. Adam is the psyche. When lust for sex controls the brain, the brain degenerates back into animal. That is what the prophet of Islam represents: sexual degeneracy back into animal nature. Of course, the Muslims don't realize that this is the idol they are worshiping because they are themselves like Muhammad was, as that is what appeals to them: sexual degeneracy, abusing the vulnerable (women) and waging war on everyone and everything.

Adam trying to blame Eve for the fall is the same thing as Muhammadan Men trying to blame women for degeneracy of the Men. This is where the hijab comes from:

1. Sexually degenerated Muhammad man sees women and thinks about sex
2. Muhammadan man can not control his lust
3. Muhammadan man rapes woman
4. It is the woman's fault because she was not wearing an hijab like a modest woman should to avoid being raped

This is why Islam is backwards: it blames women for men's own iniquity, which is precisely what Adam tried to do before he was cast out. If Muslims could actually read, they might realize that:

1. God is both masculine and feminine (shared)
2. The woman is the mother of all the living

Which in the case of 2. this is precisely what the name Adam gives Eve: Havah, which means "mother of all that lives".

Or in other words: the health of the planet is directly tied to the well-being of women. If women are abused, the planet dies. If women are exalted, the golden age manifests. This is why humanity goes through rises and falls: consistent with however man is treating woman.

Now: there are 70+ genders and people don't realize what is happening to the women because of the gender dysphoria. Hint: they are being scooped up by the Muhammadans. That is why they need the gender dysphoria cover: people won't realize women are disappearing because, well, what *is* a woman nowadays? What is a "front hole"? See how it is all related to the sexual degeneracy of Islam?

That is why they need to label criticisms of Islam as anti-Muslim or Islamophobic: the real haters and Islamophobes are the Muslims who hate hearing the (un)truth of their religion - that is all. And like Cain desiring to spill blood, they so desire to spill blood of any who ridicule their pathetic system of life - or should I more appropriately say, death. This is also the basis of fascism: forcible suppression of opposition voices, which Islam has used for 1400 years. This is why I state: Islam is pure, pure, pure fascism and essentially behind the last two world wars (when you see through the proxies).

 

[sooda]

Yeah, that's not even remotely close to true at all.



Satan is anything that binds: whatever makes ones life an expression of their being bound in an ongoing state. That is what the word "Satan" means: bound in an ongoing state. It is not a "thing", it is something people themselves to do themselves without realizing it. For example, "belief" is Satanic because it binds people in an ongoing state.

When sex(ual degeneracy) (Eve) controls and/or commands the brain (Adam) this is the fall of man. Adam and Eve are/were not historical people that lived thousands of years ago. Eve is the latent sexual drive of any being. Adam is the psyche. When lust for sex controls the brain, the brain degenerates back into animal. That is what the prophet of Islam represents: sexual degeneracy back into animal nature. Of course, the Muslims don't realize that this is the idol they are worshiping because they are themselves like Muhammad was, as that is what appeals to them: sexual degeneracy, abusing the vulnerable (women) and waging war on everyone and everything.

Adam trying to blame Eve for the fall is the same thing as Muhammadan Men trying to blame women for degeneracy of the Men. This is where the hijab comes from:

1. Sexually degenerated Muhammad man sees women and thinks about sex
2. Muhammadan man can not control his lust
3. Muhammadan man rapes woman
4. It is the woman's fault because she was not wearing an hijab like a modest woman should to avoid being raped

This is why Islam is backwards: it blames women for men's own iniquity, which is precisely what Adam tried to do before he was cast out. If Muslims could actually read, they might realize that:

1. God is both masculine and feminine (shared)
2. The woman is the mother of all the living

Which in the case of 2. this is precisely what the name Adam gives Eve: Havah, which means "mother of all that lives".

Or in other words: the health of the planet is directly tied to the well-being of women. If women are abused, the planet dies. If women are exalted, the golden age manifests. This is why humanity goes through rises and falls: consistent with however man is treating woman.

Now: there are 70+ genders and people don't realize what is happening to the women because of the gender dysphoria. Hint: they are being scooped up by the Muhammadans. That is why they need the gender dysphoria cover: people won't realize women are disappearing because, well, what *is* a woman nowadays? What is a "front hole"? See how it is all related to the sexual degeneracy of Islam?

That is why they need to label criticisms of Islam as anti-Muslim or Islamophobic: the real haters and Islamophobes are the Muslims who hate hearing the (un)truth of their religion - that is all. And like Cain desiring to spill blood, they so desire to spill blood of any who ridicule their pathetic system of life - or should I more appropriately say, death. This is also the basis of fascism: forcible suppression of opposition voices, which Islam has used for 1400 years. This is why I state: Islam is pure, pure, pure fascism and essentially behind the last two world wars (when you see through the proxies).

Absolutely true. In Islam a woman controlled her own money and could buy and sell without permission.. She could inherit. She could divorce and she could write her own marriage contract. She was also entitled to an education.

Are you on a deliberate hate fest or just woefully uninformed?

 

[sooda]

Havalah or Havilah is a variant of Eve.. and of course you know the legend that Eve is buried in the "grandmother city" of Jiddah.

Its also a district in Arabia-Felix.

 

[9-18-1]

There are no 72 virgins in Islam. The Koran does talk about transparent companions.. angels.

Why are Imams publicly lecturing to Muslims that there are virgin women waiting for them in heaven?
Why are Muhammadan men blowing themselves up "believing" they will be receiving 72 virgins?
Why do Muslims try to label such "not real Muslims"?
Whose problem is it?

If there are no 72 virgins in Islam anywhere, degenerated men wouldn't be sacrificing themselves for it.

"Believe in something. Even if it means sacrificing everything."
-Nike

Sound familiar? Strikingly Islamic, yes? Same suicide bomber mentality: sacrificing over a belief.

This is only one of the many reasons Islam is sick.

Aisha was 17 or 18 when she married because she was born before the Call. Peadophilia is a death penalty offense in most of the Arab world.

She was 9 - this age serves as the precedent for child marriage in Islam, which includes sex: sex with a child wife is not pedophilia in Islam, because Muhammad was a pedophile man whose "example" serves as the basis for pedophilia in Islam, which is not even a crime anyways as you suggest. Maybe raping another child, but certainly not ones own nine-year-old wife. This is perfectly kosher in Islam and, again, rooted in sexual degeneracy.

Women couldn't survive in the harsh conditions of Arabia without the protection of a family, clan and tribe... Widows, unmarried women, wives of enemy combatants all had to have a husband.

That is because men would rape them and bury them afterwards. That is how Arab men acted back, and some still do have that low a regard for women. Muhammad was an improvement, but he seemed to like keeping them alive and selling them for money. Why toss something you can sell?

That is why Muhammad is known as a merchant: his product was women, and they were the spoils of war from which he always had first "choice". Hence, his numerous wives (polygamy) which is nothing short of infidelity. This precedent of polygamy/infidelity is what is responsible for the imbalance of men/women on the planet.

Imagine a fully Islamic planet, with a natural balance of men and women, wherein the men are each entitled to four wives. In other words, from Adam's own rib was derived four/nine/eleven Eves. See how destructive that is? That is the prophet of Islam and the sexual degeneracy he represents for the similarly degenerated.

There are some 30 allegories in the Koran that describe heaven (paradise) They range from cool and green, to low hanging fruit, to rivers of milk and wine that won't make a person drunk, to cool clean water... and an abundance of fine foods.

Yes, all as delusional as the Christian heaven as 1/3 of the Qur'an came from Syriac strophic hymns that were full of such Christian imagery. This "belief" that the Qur'an is from god is probably the #1 source of retardation in Islam and why Muslims still reflect the lifestyle of 7th century tribal barbarism.

In our Bible we have "my father's house has many mansions".

Hardly any one knows what it is actually referring to.

Basically you don't know anything about Islam.. You might want to back up and try again.

Anyone who knows that the Qur'an is man-made and essentially adapted from Christian strophic hymns and apocryphal texts (some of which predated Islam by over 100 years, some narratives adapted to Muhammad such as the Night Journey were adapted from Persian myths up to 450 years prior) knows more about Islam than any Muhammadan: it is man-made.

Be careful of projection: it may be that you may not know anything about what Islam really is. This is certainly the case for Muslims: they certainly don't know the Qur'an is of man-made origin due to their "belief" it is from god. This is where the Muslim becomes retarded: the Qur'an is man-made and is the reason why hundreds of millions are dead. Until the Muslim learns this, they do not know Islam.

 

[9-18-1]

Absolutely true. In Islam a woman controlled her own money and could buy and sell without permission.. She could inherit. She could divorce and she could write her own marriage contract. She was also entitled to an education.

Are you on a deliberate hate fest or just woefully uninformed?

She also can not refuse her husband sex if he demands it unless ill or menstruating. She also can not leave the house without permission and/or guardianship. She can not alone report a rape and expect anything to be done about it.

If you are trying to argue that Islam empowers women, you are the one that is woefully uninformed, let alone pathetic for insulting women by suggesting Islam has any respect for them. It does not, because the idol of Islam did not.

If you hate what I am saying, don't try to blame me as the source of hatred. Learn not to hate things others say. Muslims have the same problem: they blame whatever stirs something inside themselves that is their own hatred. Criticisms of Muhammad is precisely that: taking offense and generating hatred and desire to spill blood. That is how idol worship works, and why Muhammadans spill blood over criticisms of a dead man that has now lead 270 000 000 people to their own same pointless deaths having accomplished everything except for: peace.

Havalah or Havilah is a variant of Eve.. and of course you know the legend that Eve is buried in the "grandmother city" of Jiddah.

Its also a district in Arabia-Felix.

Lol I actually don't know what point you are trying to make? Israel is a combination of Isis, Ra, El which is the the Mother, Father, Child dynamic which is the triunity of continuous creation. Israel is also actually a state - a legitimate one.

Islam is not a state - IS, which is the only real state Islam ever becomes, is always full of degenerated infidel men that abuse women and take/treat them as sex slaves. IS was recently destroyed and the women are giving testimonies about how the Muhammadans treated them and essentially gang-banged them constantly. This is the fruit/product of sexual degeneracy and essentially how Muhammad and his inner circle treated women.

Therefor Muslims imagine their own state - Palestine - while destroying everyone else's. Again, it is just sick.

I'm sorry if saying Islam is sick offends you or others, but it is in fact true - "belief" in anything that is not true is a sickness.

 

[sooda]

She also can not refuse her husband sex if he demands it unless ill or menstruating. She also can not leave the house without permission and/or guardianship. She can not alone report a rape and expect anything to be done about it.

If you are trying to argue that Islam empowers women, you are the one that is woefully uninformed, let alone pathetic for insulting women by suggesting Islam has any respect for them. It does not, because the idol of Islam did not.

If you hate what I am saying, don't try to blame me as the source of hatred. Learn not to hate things others say. Muslims have the same problem: they blame whatever stirs something inside themselves that is their own hatred. Criticisms of Muhammad is precisely that: taking offense and generating hatred and desire to spill blood. That is how idol worship works, and why Muhammadans spill blood over criticisms of a dead man that has now lead 270 000 000 people to their own same pointless deaths having accomplished everything except for: peace.



Lol I actually don't know what point you are trying to make? Israel is a combination of Isis, Ra, El which is the the Mother, Father, Child dynamic which is the triunity of continuous creation. Israel is also actually a state - a legitimate one.

Islam is not a state - IS, which is the only real state Islam ever becomes, is always full of degenerated infidel men that abuse women and take/treat them as sex slaves. IS was recently destroyed and the women are giving testimonies about how the Muhammadans treated them and essentially gang-banged them constantly. This is the fruit/product of sexual degeneracy and essentially how Muhammad and his inner circle treated women.

Therefor Muslims imagine their own state - Palestine - while destroying everyone else's. Again, it is just sick.

I'm sorry if saying Islam is sick offends you or others, but it is in fact true - "belief" in anything that is not true is a sickness.

How many Muslim women have you talked with ?

 

[9-18-1]

How many Muslim women have you talked with ?

I dated one for over 3 years - but why does this matter? And why are you trying to make this personal? Why can't you leave the "you" and "I" out of it and stick to the topic? I don't particularly care how Muslims see the world or claim to see it, their lens is invariably distorted given their false beliefs. The one I knew rather closely was sexually abused as a child by a man abusing his position of power. At this time I didn't know anything about any of the Abrahamic religions - but once I read that Muhammad had essentially done the same thing to A'isha, and his "example" serves as the eternal basis of Islam (which is pure idol worship) I understood why Muslim women are generally abused and exploited in Islam. What is sad is this is the same man Muslim women are taught is the perfect model. He was actually a sexually degenerated infidel man who had absolutely no self-control whatsoever; no restraint, just bloodshed by day and sex by night. It still goes on today.

Of course the idol worship component is there to protect Muhammad and/or the men perpetrating these abuses against women. That is why Muhammadan men kill people over criticisms of Muhammad: they identify with/as Muhammad therefor take it personally. This is what reveals idol worship: desire to spill blood over criticisms of their idol. This is exactly what Islam is, and Christianity at least was before it. Judaism started it all off with exchanging the Egyptian Akhunatun into a Jewish Moses. So the basis of this degeneration is of a Semitic nature (which is why Jews and Muslims are virtually identical - if you strip the Jew of intellect and replace it with sexual degeneracy you essentially have a Muhammadan) and always displays the same characteristics: call anyone who criticizes them anti-*, racist, bigot, supremacist etc. (Islam is all of these things itself: this is how projection works and is the fundamental pathology of these religions/peoples) and uses forcible suppression (fascism) to silence critics - which involves all forms of jihad including political/character assassination. This what the POTUS is facing now - the Left is always the proxy of Islam. The entire Left is infected with the same projection illness that is the basis of Islam, and they are starting to import socialism everywhere, which is another product of Islam.

Mueller report reveals no collusion: entire Russian collusion was a projection by Islam/Left because they are the ones who colluded with Russia: Clinton/Obama, who are both degenerates. Hillary's husband bill is a career rapist. Justin Trudeau is another pedophile warlord that silences women. John Brennan is a notorious projector and "convert" to Islam. Islam naturally attracts these people, because Islam is rooted in psychopathy and sexual degeneracy - anger, resentment, envy, fear, shame etc. All of these things are found in Islam - that is why Muslims envy any people/state superior to itself and attack it.

The problem: Islam "believes" it is the solution, but it is actually the problem. This is why hundreds of millions are dead: Islam treats itself as the solution rather than the problem.

Islam is actually a humanitarian crisis and has been for 1400 years - the Qur'an is 100% man-made, as is the Torah, and "believing" Muhammadans are therefor literally insane, as Mark Twain did correctly state:

When I, a thoughtful and unblessed Presbyterian, examine the Koran, I know that beyond any question every Mohammedan is insane, not in all things, but in religious matters. I cannot prove to him that he is insane, because you never can prove anything to a lunatic — for that is a part of his insanity and the evidence of it.” – Mark Twain

This is exactly the same boat I am in: you can not prove to a Muhammadan that they are insane, because the principle deficiency of Islamic worldview is, because it is "belief"-based, the Muhammadan naturally falls into subjective reasoning: putting ones own "belief" as the only possible correct answer. Therefor, for the Muhammadan, the Qur'an can not be man-made. However, it is man-made, which is what makes the Muhammadan insane and, ultimately, the source of their own suffering (in ignorance).

Of course this is where the Muhammadan has to find a way to externalize his/her suffering and blame others: the Jews, the unbeliever, the infidels etc. and it is never Islam that is the problem - ever. In fact, Muslims are always victims: even the ones that commit crimes.

 

[dfnj]

Ultimately this "belief" and "idol worship" have been the most prime sources of human suffering and death on this planet.

If religion were like mathematics you have second graders understanding of it.

The idea religion is the source of human suffering cannot be more wrong. If religion did not exist at all in the World there would be just as many wars, killings, and senseless acts of violence. Religion is not the source of all that is evil in the World. Poverty and imperfections in human character are the cause. If religion did not exist at all there would be just as many people killing each other over adultery. Just as many people living in poverty who snap because they become desperate. Just as many wars for profit. Just as many leaders jockeying to have power over other leaders at any expense.

I'm amazed how many times I've heard this argument in the last week that religion is the cause of human suffering. This comment is becoming a mantra. It's funny how seemly intelligent people are incapable of admitting they are wrong.

It turns out every major religion has some form of the golden rule:

Buddhism
Treat not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful.
The Buddha, Udana-Varga 5.18

Christianity
In everything, do to others as you would have them do to you; for this is the law and the prophets.
Jesus, Matthew 7:12

Confucianism
One word which sums up the basis of all good conduct … loving-kindness.
Do not do to others what you do not want done to yourself.
Confucius Analects 15.23

Hinduism
This is the sum of duty: do not do to others what would cause pain if done to you.
Mahabharata 5:1517

Islam
Not one of you truly believes until you wish for others what you wish for yourself.
Book 001, Number 0072:
It is arrested on the authority of Anas b. Malik that the Prophet (may peace and blessings be upon him) observed: one amongst you believes (truly) till one likes for his brother or for his neighbour that which he loves for himself.

Jainism
One should treat all creatures in the world as one would like to be treated.
Mahavira, Sutrakritanga

Judaism
What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbour. This is the whole
Torah; all the rest is commentary. Go and learn it.
Hillel, Talmud, Shabbath 31a

Native Spirituality
We are as much alive as we keep the earth alive.
Chief Dan George

Sikhism
I am a stranger to no one; and no one is a stranger to me. Indeed, I am a friend to all.
Guru Granth Sahib, p. 1299

Taoism
Regard your neighbour’s gain as your own gain and your neighbour’s loss as your own loss.
Lao Tzu, T’ai Shang Kan Ying P’ien, 213-218

Unitarianism
We affirm and promote respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.
Unitarian principle

Zoroastrianism
Do not do unto others whatever is injurious to yourself.
Shayast-na-Shayast 13.29

Baha’i Faith
Lay not on any soul a load that you would not wish to be laid upon you,
and desire not for anyone the things you would not desire for yourself.
Baha’u’llah, Gleanings

 

[dingdao]

Here's an alternative view: the Creator of the material world - who does not have our interests at heart - demanded of Cain and Abel a sacrifice, an animal sacrifice, because the Creator loves bloody sacrifices (as borne out by later demands of e.g. Abraham and Jesus). Abel obeyed, Cain did not. For Abel was a servant of the lower Creator god, but Cain a servant of the Highest God, Who does not demand such things. And it came to a fight between the two, which Cain won.

WOW
Are you actually arguing for Manichaeism?

 

[WalterTrull]

Manichaeism

As I've said before, love it when I have to look stuff up. Thanks.

 

[Falvlun]

Belief isn’t inherently a vice or a virtue. I think it’s an unavoidable necessity and outgrowth of human thought in the face of never completely knowing what is true.

We must act as if certain things are true, despite not knowing 100% that they are. Belief frees us from that paralysis.

Belief can be problematic when it is praised for its own sake, or when it is accepted without examination or consideration. I think many religious beliefs fall into this trap.

But, I don’t think religion ought to give all belief a bad name. Too many atheists think that belief is a dirty word, when it’s really just a natural and necessary step in forming world views in a world without certainty.

 

[9-18-1]

If religion were like mathematics you have second graders understanding of it.

Aha! Comes out swinging! Shall we play a game?

Let's see what we have.

The idea religion is the source of human suffering cannot be more wrong.

Okay - but nobody claimed that, at least in this thread. I did state more or less that "belief" is not a virtue, and any state or institution which utilizes "belief" is essentially problematic at the least which will always beget human suffering in some form or another. This invariably includes the Abrahamic religions, but is not strictly limited to them.

So let us be careful not to make strawman arguments: I pay respect to use of language, and ensure when I am countering another argument, I don't make the mistake of attacking an argument that the other side never made.

If religion did not exist at all in the World there would be just as many wars, killings, and senseless acts of violence.

I do not grant this assertion - it is speculation and can not even be tested. I would argue that a non-religious "state" which utilizes a Patriarchy + Matriarchy co-regency system would yield far less wars, killings, and senseless acts of violence: especially when coupled with basic laws such as monogamy to enforce the natural balance of men/women.

Islam distorts such a balance: Muhammad had 9/11 wives, several "concubines" and allowed his followers to take up to four wives over and above their war captives. This is not doing anything to establish a harmony between men and women: it is actively destroying it.This is what makes Islam fundamentally an infidel "religion" filled with wars (coveting of women as war booty), killings (over books and idols) and senseless acts of violence (suicide bombing another place of worship).

Such a state described above would be far, far superior to anything out of the Middle East based on the source of all evil which is...

Religion is not the source of all that is evil in the World.

...sexual degeneracy. When the instincts of the lower command the thoughts of the higher, man is fallen and degenerated back into animal nature.

When ones will to bestow (phallus) is 100% shared with ones will to receive (ovum), this is two becoming one, and one and the same as Elohim: having an image (+) and likeness (-) that is both masculine and feminine. This is also the source of eternal life and the kingdom of heaven: one has a will to receive something, the other has a will to bestow. What the "will" is, is infinite possibilities. This is Aur Ein Soph: light without end as equivalent to "Allah" - but it is not a god or deity to worship, because there is no god or deity to worship. If you worship something, you are most likely Satanic. This is what Christianity and Islam are: Satanic Patriarchal idol worship of dead men.

And that Islam is absolutely Satanic is an argument one could prove in any reasonable court that doesn't adopt lynching for blasphemy. Muhammadans can't stand trial, they are guilty of the greatest human atrocities on the planet - their only resolve is to eliminate all opposition and play the victim wherever possible. The Jews did precisely the same before them.

Poverty and imperfections in human character are the cause.

Poverty and imperfections in human character (?) are not causes, they are symptoms. Poverty is a symptom of many problems. Islam is one such problem.

If religion did not exist at all there would be just as many people killing each other over adultery. Just as many people living in poverty who snap because they become desperate. Just as many wars for profit. Just as many leaders jockeying to have power over other leaders at any expense

That is the people religious institutions exploit: you are suffering, we have a solution for you! Confess:

Christianity: Jesus is Lord.
Islam: There is no god, only Allah; Muhammad is the companion of Allah.

Both are false testimonies contrary to the ten commandments which makes me kind of just laugh at the Christians and Muslims for bearing testimony of dead men. If they didn't break this commandment they wouldn't have absorbed their Jesus/Muhammad idols who command their lives from the grave and/or heaven, lol.

I'm amazed how many times I've heard this argument in the last week that religion is the cause of human suffering. This comment is becoming a mantra. It's funny how seemly intelligent people are incapable of admitting they are wrong.

You must be hearing reverberations in your head then - nobody here made this argument.

What were you saying about admitting to being wrong?

It turns out every major religion has some form of the golden rule:

Buddhism
Treat not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful.
The Buddha, Udana-Varga 5.18

Christianity
In everything, do to others as you would have them do to you; for this is the law and the prophets.
Jesus, Matthew 7:12

Confucianism
One word which sums up the basis of all good conduct … loving-kindness.
Do not do to others what you do not want done to yourself.
Confucius Analects 15.23

Hinduism
This is the sum of duty: do not do to others what would cause pain if done to you.
Mahabharata 5:1517

Islam
Not one of you truly believes until you wish for others what you wish for yourself.
Book 001, Number 0072:
It is arrested on the authority of Anas b. Malik that the Prophet (may peace and blessings be upon him) observed: one amongst you believes (truly) till one likes for his brother or for his neighbour that which he loves for himself.

Jainism
One should treat all creatures in the world as one would like to be treated.
Mahavira, Sutrakritanga

Judaism
What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbour. This is the whole
Torah; all the rest is commentary. Go and learn it.
Hillel, Talmud, Shabbath 31a

Native Spirituality
We are as much alive as we keep the earth alive.
Chief Dan George

Sikhism
I am a stranger to no one; and no one is a stranger to me. Indeed, I am a friend to all.
Guru Granth Sahib, p. 1299

Taoism
Regard your neighbour’s gain as your own gain and your neighbour’s loss as your own loss.
Lao Tzu, T’ai Shang Kan Ying P’ien, 213-218

Unitarianism
We affirm and promote respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.
Unitarian principle

Zoroastrianism
Do not do unto others whatever is injurious to yourself.
Shayast-na-Shayast 13.29

Baha’i Faith
Lay not on any soul a load that you would not wish to be laid upon you,
and desire not for anyone the things you would not desire for yourself.
Baha’u’llah, Gleanings

Sooo... as long as they have a golden rule written in some book somewhere, they are not a problem. It doesn't matter if nobody reads/follows the rule (like the ten commandments) just as long as they have it written down. For reference and something to point at when being ridiculed. See it is WRITTEN here! Lol!

All of these systems with the same overall message, and humanity is still at war. Could it be perhaps some of these systems falsely assert themselves as being/having an authority they don't actually have? That would be: the Torah (Jews), the gospels (Christianity) and the Qur'an (Islam). Essentially all claim to be inspired and uniquely in possession of the Word of God, serving only One God. How can there be three religions serving One God? Is this One God not capable of at least clearly establishing how to "live" without managing to manufacture thousands of "false" gods, pit humanity against itself and generate perpetual conflict(s) between warring faiths all pointing fingers at (allegedly) the same One God that created them? Don't people ask basic questions anymore?

This is why "belief" is not a virtue and why I openly invite any single "believer" (individual or body) to argue/defend the following assertion:

"Belief" is a virtue.

I'm almost afraid to see what kind of arguments a person defending such a position would be: Islam/Muslims would most certainly look particularly ridiculous as they openly call themselves "believers" as if proud when saying it. Such pride is very fitting for a subjective reasoner / "believer".

Isn't pride Satanic? One of the cardinal vices?

"I am a proud Muslim!"

You sure are... very, very, very proud. Exalted, even! The same as Iblis. Oh, wait...

 

[dingdao]

The first half of your thesis was interesting.
If you're going to engage in a discussion or debate keep each segment simple:
Explain Galatians 3:1.
Hint: He's using a euphemism.

"This is how they behave: blame everyone else for what they are themselves guilty of." Have you been reading Roger Stone?

"I like to test claims, so when I read Jesus' teaching about how chastity is a requirement, I actually became chaste to test it. I can report that the teaching is accurate: sexual degeneracy is what "kills" the brain and turns people into animals." This only works over a short period of time. Repressing sexual desires eventually leads to it spilling over into every waking moment of your consciousness. The results can be worse then letting your instincts run amuck. Actually going overboard in the opposite direction, tantra, leads to 'so you're gorgeous, I don't think you can keep up. Something the Pope should consider.

"You can't separate motivation from religion, because religion acts as a motivating factor for many, many people." Have you ever noticed that most societies in history have had the same person as the religious and political leader? Those that haven't, have had people attempt to occupy both positions at the same time. It's easier to order people around if you can send them to Hell if they don't heel.

"I know the Torah is man-made, it carries in it some great knowledge that invariably came from the Egyptian schools." It also inherits a lot from Zoroastrianism.

"[T]he difference between subjective reasoning and objective reasoning..." You're mixing 2 concepts here: subjectivity and objectivity are not reasoning modes. According to Quantum Mechanics, you should question if they are valid concepts. Perhaps you were referring to inductive and deductive reasoning?

"However the Hebrew name for Jesus (I'd pronounce it Yahushua) implies the shin (fire) emerging inside of the Tetragrammaton:" Now we're getting interesting.

"[The] entire Russian collusion was a projection by Islam/Left because they are the ones who colluded with Russia:" You HAVE been reading Roger Stone. I knew it!

"Here is yet another: the fall of man culminates into the spilling of the seed (orgasm) which gives birth to Cain." You lost it. Find a mate.

"This is perfectly kosher in Islam." Interesting phrase.

"Imagine a fully Islamic planet, with a natural balance of men and women, wherein the men are each entitled to four wives." As far as evolution goes, it works. Those that survive the melee culling get to mate.

"She also can not refuse her husband sex if he demands it unless ill or menstruating. She also can not leave the house without permission and/or guardianship. She can not alone report a rape and expect anything to be done about it." Don't blame the whole religion for the shortcomings of Wahhabism.

Just what horse do you have your money on?