The Problem With Public Schools

[Nakosis]

This is specific to the US, since this is where my experience lies...

I see the biggest problem with public schools is they spend a lot of time teaching you what to think but very little time teaching you how to think.

Spent most of my time, as I recall, learning how to correctly respond to questions. Was graded on how "correct" my answers were, not how much thought I put into them.

I learned stuff like critical thinking through business education courses.

US public schools seems somewhat behind the education system of some other countries.
Did your school education teach you how to think or like mine, what to think?

 

[JustGeorge]

This is specific to the US, since this is where my experience lies...

I see the biggest problem with public schools is they spend a lot of time teaching you what to think but very little time teaching you how to think.

Spent most of my time, as I recall, learning how to correctly respond to questions. Was graded on how "correct" my answers were, not how much thought I put into them.

I learned stuff like critical thinking through business education courses.

US public schools seems somewhat behind the education system of some other countries.
Did your school education teach you how to think or like mine, what to think?

I think it went more teacher specific...

To be fair, I bowed out of the mainstream schools in high school. I spent one year at the main high school... it was very much not only 'what' to think, but how to be... Despite being well behaved, and a good student, some teachers strongly disliked me because of blue hair and unusual fashion choices.

Because of panic attacks at the main school, I transferred over to the alternative school. Things were better there. Though it was sometimes called 'the bad kids' school', nothing could have been farther from the truth('bad kids' were booted almost immediately). But, many of these kids had special circumstances(like me and my anxiety), and many already had one foot in the adult world(needing to work because no parent was caring for them, or having children of their own). We generally were not as pliable. But, a lot of us were smart. The teachers tended to treat us like adults(for better or worse), and most often were encouraged in the 'hows' rather than the 'whats'.

I feel that for the majority of my oldest's education(he's 16), he has been taught the 'whats'. He had a few exceptional teachers in the early years, but after about the middle school point, its mostly been 'what'. Its generic. I found few situations where he had to think critically, it was mostly just regurgitation.

 

[Secret Chief]

I think in the UK it used to be (70s for me) basically rote learning and regurgitation. The more facts you could spew out the higher the grade. These days (I work in a high school) there is considerable emphasis on getting pupils to think, not so much cramming in of data.

 

[SomeRandom]

This is specific to the US, since this is where my experience lies...

I see the biggest problem with public schools is they spend a lot of time teaching you what to think but very little time teaching you how to think.

Spent most of my time, as I recall, learning how to correctly respond to questions. Was graded on how "correct" my answers were, not how much thought I put into them.

I learned stuff like critical thinking through business education courses.

US public schools seems somewhat behind the education system of some other countries.
Did your school education teach you how to think or like mine, what to think?

Kind of both?
In primary (elementary/middle) school there was a bit more emphasis on getting the right answer. Though teaching styles differ even at that age.
Once I hit late primary school onwards (like grade 6, which for us is around 11 years old) it became far more common for one’s teacher to play devils advocate. What I mean by that is, apart from say Math where answers were “cut and dry” most of the time even if you answered the teacher correctly, they would offer a hypothetical scenario designed to get you to defend why your answer was correct. It got more intense the older you got. And I feel like some teachers did it moreso for their own amusement. Though I can understand why in hindsight. It forced one to think through the answer and why one should come to that conclusion
But of course sometimes the correct answer was just the correct answer
But that’s just my experience

 

[Secret Chief]

some teachers strongly disliked me because of blue hair and unusual fashion choices.

Understandable.

 

[JustGeorge]

Understandable.

I was well loved at the next school for the same reasons.

And despite many thinking it was just a phase...

Nope.

 

[Secret Chief]

I was well loved at the next school for the same reasons.

And despite many thinking it was just a phase...

Nope.

I'm not exactly mainstream That seems to be ok with the kids at the school. Normal is over-rated!

 

[Vinayaka]

This is specific to the US, since this is where my experience lies...

I see the biggest problem with public schools is they spend a lot of time teaching you what to think but very little time teaching you how to think.

Spent most of my time, as I recall, learning how to correctly respond to questions. Was graded on how "correct" my answers were, not how much thought I put into them.

I learned stuff like critical thinking through business education courses.

US public schools seems somewhat behind the education system of some other countries.
Did your school education teach you how to think or like mine, what to think?

I tried hard to teach kids how to think, but sometimes they just weren't up for it. When a kid comes up and asks you what time it is when there's a large clock just above your desk, well, that's a hint. It's a lot tougher than you might think given the wide range of abilities within any classroom. I know I failed a few kids ... not enough time in the day.

But I did things like asking them to be prepared for class, and not reminding them, just going straight to the lesson. Some would take ten minutes before they figured out what was going on. Great fun.

 

[Orbit]

I could write a book on this. In the US, school funding is tied to property taxes. Poor neighborhood = lower tax base = poorly funded public schools. Further, charter schools and other privatized entities drain money from the public system to subsidize their privatized efforts, using public money to fund private profit.

And then there's standardized testing, which is used as a tool to convince the public that schools are failing and we should therefore privatize them. Teachers spend so much time "teaching to the test" when time would be better spent actually teaching kids in a way that they learn.

School boards are packed with MAGA Republicans who want to ban books and forbid the teaching of our actual history when it comes to slavery and racial issues. In my opinion, the problem isn't the schools or the teachers, but the people who want to *control* the schools.

 

[Ella S.]

I was in a gifted & talented program. We learned logic, the engineering method, creative problem solving, wrote mathematical proofs, solved complex puzzles, etc. This wasn't really as big of an issue for me, in the US.

We did still have to cram to pass tests, but we were also taught a variety of mnemonic devices, note-taking methods, study approaches, etc. Memory and recall are particularly important skills for my current career, so I don't think public education is a failure for focusing on that

My real issue with the public education system is that they don't teach you how we know what we know and it's too concerned with watering down what we know so that it's more acceptable to parents who are at odds with reality. I'm talking Middle Schools that teach the "Big Bang" or "evolution" models as merely one among many competing concepts, or High School history courses that treat Jesus and Mohammad as historical figures, largely taking the accounts of the gospels and Quran at face value.

That's a much more recurrent problem, even in the gifted & talented program that I was in. It seems that private schools and home schools are the best way to give American children a genuine education unvarnished by the PR issues that come with being publicly funded.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I believe schools are looked at by parents as daycare programs, and this is the root of all of the problems. Teachers should only be required to teach. Instead they are required to be psychologists. With good intentions, discipline has been removed from the public schools. They are horrible places. I have been in two horrible remedial classes where teachers had out of control students, and yet they had to treat the students with respect. These were the students who had been set back for any number of reasons or who transferred stupidly into the wrong class. This caused everything in class to be terrible. It was noisy, people throwing things, getting out of their seats, strong picking on weak. A fellow student threatened me in one class, and another attacked me from behind. I am lucky I decided not to hurt them, but I came very close to killing at least one of them. Anyways that school was burned down by a student only a few years after my graduation.

 

[Altfish]

This is specific to the US, since this is where my experience lies...

I see the biggest problem with public schools is they spend a lot of time teaching you what to think but very little time teaching you how to think.

Spent most of my time, as I recall, learning how to correctly respond to questions. Was graded on how "correct" my answers were, not how much thought I put into them.

I learned stuff like critical thinking through business education courses.

US public schools seems somewhat behind the education system of some other countries.
Did your school education teach you how to think or like mine, what to think?

Have you any evidence for this assertion?

 

[metis]

I see the biggest problem with public schools is they spend a lot of time teaching you what to think but very little time teaching you how to think.

American public education long emphasized more creative thinking per using the Socratic Method of give & take, thus it did and does encourage creativity. Unfortunately, standardized testing that at least partially dictates school funding that been pushed by right-wingers especially, took us in the different direction of more emphasis on rote learning as the standardized tests became the tail that wags the dog.

US public schools seems somewhat behind the education system of some other countries.
Did your school education teach you how to think or like mine, what to think?

More "how to".

BTW, don't get too down on our system because if the public schools were supposedly doing such a bad job, then that defied the results, namely that the U.S. still is the world's #1 economic superpower. Americans were well known for "thinking out of the box" and going in the direction of pragmatism, but there has been an increasing emphasis in both "political correctness" and "culture wars" that's nauseating, imo.

 

[Nakosis]

Have you any evidence for this assertion?

12 years of going through the public education system.
Evidence for my perspective is my perspective.
I'm looking for other perspectives.

Also, I used to interview for technical positions.
The foreign educated always did better on our technical testing/interview.

 

[Nakosis]

I tried hard to teach kids how to think, but sometimes they just weren't up for it. When a kid comes up and asks you what time it is when there's a large clock just above your desk, well, that's a hint. It's a lot tougher than you might think given the wide range of abilities within any classroom. I know I failed a few kids ... not enough time in the day.

But I did things like asking them to be prepared for class, and not reminding them, just going straight to the lesson. Some would take ten minutes before they figured out what was going on. Great fun.

I found out my son didn't know, I think he was around 7 or 8 at the time, how to read an analog clock. Taught him myself since this seemed something they didn't normally go over. Of course my dad taught me how to use a slide rule. Ancient knowledge passed down I suppose.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

This is specific to the US, since this is where my experience lies... I see the biggest problem with public schools is they spend a lot of time teaching you what to think but very little time teaching you how to think.
Spent most of my time, as I recall, learning how to correctly respond to questions. Was graded on how "correct" my answers were, not how much thought I put into them. I learned stuff like critical thinking through business education courses. US public schools seems somewhat behind the education system of some other countries.
Did your school education teach you how to think or like mine, what to think?

I recall in 1950's grade school (elementary) that the public school system could Not expel the trouble makers.
Having to put up with rebellious ones hurt the teaching/learning process.
Grade school was about memory. Memorize this, memorize that......
Teaching 'what to think' is: propaganda.
Yes, education is supposed to teach you 'how to think'.
Bible education should teach the 'way to serve God'. (governed by morality)
High school science class gave the explanatory world view (evolution) but allowed for the creation view.
So, I did appreciate being able to think about and consider both sides of the picture of that issue.

In 1960's business class we were stressed that the computer and computer repair was the future.
Sound investments should be made early and forgotten about til retirement.
Put half in Blue Chip ( IBM for example ) and half in a new or young company ( Honda for example ).
Also, in mid 60's one person said McDonald's was the future, but I could Not see investing in Ronald McDonald !
In the late 70's one classmate sold her late husband's IBM stock in favor of investing in jewelry that was a BIG mistake.

 

[Nakosis]

I was in a gifted & talented program. We learned logic, the engineering method, creative problem solving, wrote mathematical proofs, solved complex puzzles, etc. This wasn't really as big of an issue for me, in the US.

We did still have to cram to pass tests, but we were also taught a variety of mnemonic devices, note-taking methods, study approaches, etc. Memory and recall are particularly important skills for my current career, so I don't think public education is a failure for focusing on that

My real issue with the public education system is that they don't teach you how we know what we know and it's too concerned with watering down what we know so that it's more acceptable to parents who are at odds with reality. I'm talking Middle Schools that teach the "Big Bang" or "evolution" models as merely one among many competing concepts, or High School history courses that treat Jesus and Mohammad as historical figures, largely taking the accounts of the gospels and Quran at face value.

That's a much more recurrent problem, even in the gifted & talented program that I was in. It seems that private schools and home schools are the best way to give American children a genuine education unvarnished by the PR issues that come with being publicly funded.

Yes, my grand kids go to a private school and they seem a little more interested in getting the kids to think outside of the box.

 

[Vinayaka]

I found out my son didn't know, I think he was around 7 or 8 at the time, how to read an analog clock. Taught him myself since this seemed something they didn't normally go over. Of course my dad taught me how to use a slide rule. Ancient knowledge passed down I suppose.

That's true these days. Lots of stuff we assume. I assumed a car salesman would know what a standard is. But he didn't, he thought it meant 'the normal', as in standard way of doing something.

 

[JustGeorge]

I'm not exactly mainstream That seems to be ok with the kids at the school. Normal is over-rated!

Ah, the fun we could have had in school together!

Normal is overrated. We had one teacher who was well known for his lack of normalcy(even if he looked it). I remember fondly him singing(at the top of his lungs, uncensored) SOAD's Prison Song in the hallways...

(Sadly, I hear he passed away last year.)

 

[Secret Chief]

Ah, the fun we could have had in school together!

Hehe, we'd have been put at opposite ends of the classroom

Normal is overrated. We had one teacher who was well known for his lack of normalcy(even if he looked it). I remember fondly him singing(at the top of his lungs, uncensored) SOAD's Prison Song in the hallways...

(Sadly, I hear he passed away last year.)

What a legend he was.