The Problem With Public Schools

[syo]

Schools need demolition.

 

[Quintessence]

Was just thinking about this because of DS's recent thread about learning different subjects.

Grew up with an educator in the family, so I learned how to learn (which is to no small degree learning how to think and in particular ask good questions) from that cultural upbringing. But I was also in the school system prior to NCLB (No Child Left Behind) and had a string of excellent instructors who also put emphasis on the thinking more than rote answers. I had a bit of inside view on the educator perspective on NCLB and it was overwhelmingly unpopular because they knew it would take away from teaching how to learn (aka, to think). NCLB is a good example of how slapping numbers and metrics onto everything like everything must operate as a science or as a business is a bad, bad idea.

I don't know what the solution is, but the one course I teach at college has almost no rote answer content. There are a handful of places it is necessary, but everything else is short answer and about the thinking. I use an AI-powered platform that actually assists them in becoming better at asking questions and in becoming better writers. Maybe in that small way I can try to be part of the solution.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Ah, the fun we could have had in school together!

Normal is overrated. We had one teacher who was well known for his lack of normalcy(even if he looked it). I remember fondly him singing(at the top of his lungs, uncensored) SOAD's Prison Song in the hallways...

(Sadly, I hear he passed away last year.)

I'm about as 'normal' as you'd get, apart from being a former male primary school teacher, rather than female.
And I agree normal is overrated. I used to go out if my way to ensure people in my classes knew that 'normal' was just another choice. Blue hair or salt and pepper grey, my brain, voice, ears and opinions are largely unaffected.

 

[JustGeorge]

I'm about as 'normal' as you'd get, apart from being a former male primary school teacher, rather than female.
And I agree normal is overrated. I used to go out if my way to ensure people in my classes knew that 'normal' was just another choice. Blue hair or salt and pepper grey, my brain, voice, ears and opinions are largely unaffected.

Normal! You? I'd have never guessed.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Schools need demolition.

I agree. I hated school. It was a traumatizing experience for me. I spent much of my high school years being truant and got kicked out of 3 schools over it. I taught myself more than I ever learned at school. Had some whackjob teachers to boot, and don't get me started on how evil children can be towards each other.

 

[Sand Dancer]

This is specific to the US, since this is where my experience lies...

I see the biggest problem with public schools is they spend a lot of time teaching you what to think but very little time teaching you how to think.

Spent most of my time, as I recall, learning how to correctly respond to questions. Was graded on how "correct" my answers were, not how much thought I put into them.

I learned stuff like critical thinking through business education courses.

US public schools seems somewhat behind the education system of some other countries.
Did your school education teach you how to think or like mine, what to think?

Unfortunately, we are behind in many areas. Instead of memorizing dates, etc, we could at least have learned practical skills for the future.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Yes, my grand kids go to a private school and they seem a little more interested in getting the kids to think outside of the box.

Is it religious based? Catholic schools seem to be good. Protestant ones, not so much.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Was just thinking about this because of DS's recent thread about learning different subjects.

Grew up with an educator in the family, so I learned how to learn (which is to no small degree learning how to think and in particular ask good questions) from that cultural upbringing. But I was also in the school system prior to NCLB (No Child Left Behind) and had a string of excellent instructors who also put emphasis on the thinking more than rote answers. I had a bit of inside view on the educator perspective on NCLB and it was overwhelmingly unpopular because they knew it would take away from teaching how to learn (aka, to think). NCLB is a good example of how slapping numbers and metrics onto everything like everything must operate as a science or as a business is a bad, bad idea.

I don't know what the solution is, but the one course I teach at college has almost no rote answer content. There are a handful of places it is necessary, but everything else is short answer and about the thinking. I use an AI-powered platform that actually assists them in becoming better at asking questions and in becoming better writers. Maybe in that small way I can try to be part of the solution.

My views have a fair degree of correlation with yours on this.

I was surprised when entering teaching at the wide variety of motivations and...well...intelligence levels amongst prospective teachers.

Some of the 'No Child Left Behind' stuff also makes me think about 'No Teacher Left Behind', to be honest. All professions have that issue if course. Some are better than others, some more motivated, some more flexible, some more creative and expansive.

In consulting there is an element of selling our skills (this guy is an expert) but we also do have honest conversations with clients. It might involve selling some consultants cheaper, having some shadow free of charge, some doing 'lower value' or less impactful tasks, etc.

In teaching, you'll never hear that level of honesty (ironic given the general view about commercial business versus a softer industry like public education).

No school will ever say to a parent 'So...we have a kinda crappy teacher here, and little Johnny has been put in her class this year. But next year we'll make sure she gets a better teacher. I mean...we can't use our best teacher for everyone's kid, but your sacrifice here will definitely help little Bobby from the family down the road.'

Instead you'll hear how the school prioritises all kids, or some other nonsense.
It was one of the things I felt was very limiting to great teachers, as it basically was a way of smoothing out the look and feel of service delivery.

Ultimately I think the way we approach teaching at schools has a homogenising effect on delivery and outcomes (to a degree...teacher quality remains highly impactful, but teachers work outside systems, processes and budgets quite commonly).

If...as a society...we can accept that teaching isn't a hard science, and providing some optionality in delivery of teaching (not based on socio-economic access as we do now, but instead based on student requirements) that would go some way to it.

I'd also think we need to give someone more discretional ability to manage, promote and even remove teachers based on performance in the way a normal business would. Teacher unions push back on that, which...again...drags everything to a median position in my opinion.

.

 

[metis]

I hated school.

And I loved it, especially college.