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The Problem with Science

Twilight Hue

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Sustainer said:
If it is possible it is not junk, but if something is far superior and more logical than that something, then that possible just becomes junk.
Absolute answers account for all existences in any dimension of time, even if we were simulation beings, absolute applies to the creators also.
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What's absolute? Can you name something?
 
exchemist

exchemist

Veteran Member
ThePainefulTruth said:
Your point is well taken. I know it's kinda gray, but I think there's a kernel there, and given the response, might as just go with it.



Applying science, i.e. reason, to government, renders it to be a constitutional republic with a capitalist economic system, and citizens educated by anything other than government schools.




Your medieval romantic vision is just another form of elitist (read double standard) governance. We need to chase reality instead of fantasies.





Art.



Everyone has the right to oblivion.



I can't fault their science, but they have gravitated to socialism. But there are example of corrupt science and always have been, from the terracentric universe to man made global warming.



Yes, but that's criticism of religion, not science.


That's a good way to look at it I suppose, another way of calling it natural revelation, but revelation implies a revealer, and free will can not be sustained by even that degree of intervention.



As I've often said, the only reasonable positions on God are agnostic-atheism and agnostic-deism.



Truth is God, wherever that leads. Its aspects are knowledge, justice, love and beauty--from pure objective to pure subjective.



I don't either, we're all both.



I agreee.
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I do not buy your Manichaean depiction of the world.[/QUOTE]
(I had to look that one ups)--"a believer in a syncretistic religious dualism (see dualism 3) :rolleyes: originating in Persia in the third century a.d."

That goes about it all wrong, you don't combine religions to come up with a religion, you take the facts as far as you can, and then add reasonable speculation on which we can debate.[/QUOTE]

OK thanks for clarifying - and I'm glad you did not mean to suggest a Manichaean struggle between good and evil, though that is rather how I read your OP. ;)

Thanks also for defining "Truth" as God. With that in mind, we can leave science out of the discussion, as science by definition does not concern itself with God.

It looks as if you may have some sort of Pantheist inclination. Like Einstein, perhaps?
 
Truly Enlightened

Truly Enlightened

Well-Known Member
Nowhere Man said:
Name anything subjective without an objective basis by which it rests and you might have an argument worthy of debate.
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How about superstitions, religious beliefs, supernatural beliefs, prayer, myth and miracles? All are a part of our subjective human experience. All have no objective basis for belief. Everything that we perceive through our senses, is host-specific and represented by our senses. Do you think that the wavelength for the the color blue, is actually blue? Do you think that a few molecules on the tongue or nose, are really sweet or pungent/sharp molecules? Do you think that the high and low compression waves(frequency), actually sound like a C#? Our true objective reality may be beyond our ability to experience. We can't free ourselves from our own subjective perspective. We are in fact limited by our own senses. It is the tools of science that have allowed us a glimpse into what our true reality may look like. As science moves forward, so will our understanding of our true reality.
 
shunyadragon

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
ThePainefulTruth said:
I can't fault their science, but they have gravitated to socialism. But there are example of corrupt science and always have been, from the terracentric universe to man made global warming.
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You are indeed faulting science, and science as it is is not corrupt, and global warming is caused by humans is very real and sound science,

Yes, but that's criticism of religion, not science.
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No, that is the problem that corrupted religions and churches clinging to ancient worldviews have with science. Science is not the problem.


Truth is God, wherever that leads. Its aspects are knowledge, justice, love and beauty--from pure objective to pure subjective.
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Very true, IF God exists, but the Truth of God, does not exist from the fallible egocentric human perspective.
 
J

james blunt

Well-Known Member
shunyadragon said:
Meaningless and too simplistic assumption. If you are going to argue this need more explanation.
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Do you really think the Universe we know is any more complex than simplicity?

Space cannot be created or destroyed, anymore proof needed than that ?


Create a perfect vacuum by taking away all substance, what are you left with ?
 
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shunyadragon

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Sustainer said:
Do you really think the Universe we know is any more complex than simplicity?

Space cannot be created or destroyed, anymore proof needed than that ?
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You described 'space' as 'absolute?', and now evoke 'simplicity'? What we know of space beyond our solar system, galaxies is based on Quantum Mechanics, and at present 'absolutes' and simplicity does not describe 'space.'
 
J

james blunt

Well-Known Member
shunyadragon said:
You described 'space' as 'absolute?', and now evoke 'simplicity'? What we know of space beyond our solar system, galaxies is based on Quantum Mechanics, and at present 'absolutes' and simplicity does not describe 'space.'
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Arr, I see your misinterpretation sir, you are on about the universe not space. Space is the body of nothingness that things exist in. Space and things are the Universe . Space looks like my avatar sir.
 
P

Ponder This

Well-Known Member
The problem is not science or religion, per se. Rather, it is discerning the truth from falsehood in everyday life that is the difficulty - an endeavor that often finds itself outside the reach of the typical reach of science or religion as a person often does not have the time and means to conduct his own experiments nor absolute certainty in the virtues of his neighbors.
 
shunyadragon

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Sustainer said:
Do you really think the Universe we know is any more complex than simplicity?

Space cannot be created or destroyed, anymore proof needed than that ?


Create a perfect vacuum by taking away all substance, what are you left with ?
Click to expand...

Space is not perfect vacuum. You are likely referring to the philosophical 'absolute nothing,' which is not known to exist.
 
Twilight Hue

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Truly Enlightened said:
How about superstitions, religious beliefs, supernatural beliefs, prayer, myth and miracles? All are a part of our subjective human experience. All have no objective basis for belief. Everything that we perceive through our senses, is host-specific and represented by our senses. Do you think that the wavelength for the the color blue, is actually blue? Do you think that a few molecules on the tongue or nose, are really sweet or pungent/sharp molecules? Do you think that the high and low compression waves(frequency), actually sound like a C#? Our true objective reality may be beyond our ability to experience. We can't free ourselves from our own subjective perspective. We are in fact limited by our own senses. It is the tools of science that have allowed us a glimpse into what our true reality may look like. As science moves forward, so will our understanding of our true reality.
Click to expand...

Enablement alone is proof of objectivity.
 
J

james blunt

Well-Known Member
shunyadragon said:
Space is not perfect vacuum. You are likely referring to the philosophical 'absolute nothing,' which is not known to exist.
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Well, space is not a vacuum at all as far as I am aware. It was an example.

Hold out your finger, do you notice the space at the end of your finger?

Remove the radiation and particles of air, what do you have left?
 
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