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The purpose of creation

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Brahman is not an intellectual concept. Trying to discover or understand it via the intellect is like trying to dry the ocean with another ocean.
 

Koldo

Outstanding Member
According to mystic sages, yes, but they don't call it an understanding, they call it a realisation. But personally, I certainly wouldn't know. :)

Is realisation common across hindus or is it more of an exclusive thing to the mystic sages?
 

Stormcry

Well-Known Member
Hello... Koldo

When someone asks me about creation of universe, I always say one thing "There's no creation at all. There's no birth of anything. What you see in this world is just an imagination imagined in Brahman. Brahman alone is world like ornaments of gold(world) are Gold (Brahman) in his essential nature. I said about imagination of universe (maya) in Brahman but another higher thing is that this imagination too has no any little bit of existence. Imagination itself is bramhan. This means this false imagination is Brahman but Brahman is beyond maya. Means Brahman is an essential nature of this imagination (maya). All is Brahman.(*no exception for this statement). When jiva realises brahman it looks like he becomes Brahman but in reality he was already brahman. So there was no creation /maya/bondage even before appearance of jiva's moksha. Only ignorant says this world is real and it's created eternally. The reason is that they don't Brahman. Under the influence of Maya they think this world is real(*every person is experiencing it real. Even I'm experiencing. But I know this world is just non existent imagination. It is never possible to see world as brahman unless the maya is not vanished. No matter how many times you say this is unreal. You'll get feared by the duality of maya. Unless one doesn't wake up from dream he continues to grieve even if he knows this is a dream). This is the power of Ishwara's Maya....
 
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Satyamavejayanti

Well-Known Member
Is realisation common across hindus or is it more of an exclusive thing to the mystic sages?

Although not addressed to me, i will give my POV.
I think your question has been answered, the answer is "realization", the purpose of all this is to realize our true nature. And i think this theme is common among many Hindus.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
.. ( does it even have a will of sorts? ) ..
I do not think 'what exists' has a 'will' or 'desire'. It is more like 'result inherent in the cause'. Like rain falling from the clouds when they reach cooler temperatures, precipitation :).
Too late, for a madman I already am. :p
Nice to meet you.
I comprehend your analogy, but to relate to hinduism we would have to make use of dualism, which is not applicable here.
Non-dualism (advaita) is very strong in Hinduism.
 
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Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Perhaps what you mean is more akin to 'fully' experience oneself.
We cannot experience everything but we can still get some idea. I know if I go in a hot air balloon, things on earth would look small but not as small as in an airplane unless I go up 35,000 feet above the surface. There would be less oxygen content in the air, I would have to take more breaths, the temperature would be low and if I am not wearing proper clothes I would find it freezing. At some height, I will experience air jets (polar jets, at around 7&#8211;12 km (23,000&#8211;39,000 ft) above sea level, and the higher and somewhat weaker subtropical jets at around 10&#8211;16 km (33,000&#8211;52,000 ft). Surface winds are stronger (Tropical storm: 39&#8211;73 mph, Tropical depression: <38 mph). Similarly, with the help of Google Earth, I can survey Times Square. There is a Duffy square also as well as New Diamond Cafe LLC. I hope they provide good coffee. May not be the real thing, but some idea. When we are talking about what constitutes things in the universe, we have to make a similar journey.
Do souls retain some sort of individuality even after being united with Brahma? ( Or perhaps, the right question would be 'when they realize they and Brahma are one?' )
Don't know about souls (or God), being an atheist, but yes, we are always that, never separated from any seemingly 'other thing', 'Tat twam asi' (in olde English 'Thou art that').
 
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chinu

chinu
I have been meaning to ask this for quite a while.

What is the purpose of creating the universe(s) on hinduism?
( I know there may not be an unified view on this. Everyone is welcome to answer this question. )

Also, as far as I know, belief in a cyclic universe is quite common across hinduism.
Isn't the cyclic universe a form of samsara?
In the beginning, God Loved to create this universe.
So the reason is.. Because of this "LOVE" God created this universe.

And, also i would like to remind here that..
God is equal to LOVE and LOVE is equal to GOD.

So, its all LOVE game, or in words you can say that its all GOD game.

Sincerely,
Chinu:)
 

Maya3

Well-Known Member
Do souls retain some sort of individuality even after being united with Brahma? ( Or perhaps, the right question would be 'when they realize they and Brahma are one?' )

No, you realize that you were never separate to begin with.

Maya
 

Fireside_Hindu

Jai Lakshmi Maa
I comprehend your analogy, but to relate to hinduism we would have to make use of dualism, which is not applicable here.

If I understood it right, the proper analogy would be: Say I read a book about what a human being is like. Let's say I read about it in intense detail. Let's say I become so knowledgeable on the subject that I can even speak to others and educate them about it. I know all about human beings.

But knowledge is different from experience.
And since I and 'human being' are one and the same, then I have experienced 'human being'.

Perhaps what you mean is more akin to 'fully' experience oneself. For example, if I never move even a muscle of my body, I can still say ( skipping the issue that it is not possible to say something without moving a muscle ) that I have experienced myself. But I can not say that I have fully experienced myself, since I have not made use of all my capabilities.
Would that be a correct way to look at it?

Yes, your analogy is a bit better.

And the "Full" experience is what I think emanation (As V put it) is all about. Another question is, how do we know what a "full experience" is? How do we know when we're "done"? Are we ever done? These are tough questions, but thank you for asking.

I don't know what part of "me" continues or merges or is aware of merging when that event actually happens. In theory, if one were a great spiritual master with extremely high focus, you could merge with the divine while still in your body. (Your body wouldn't, just the atman in this scenario - the atman being that part of you which is never separate from god but is hidden from the other "you" - the ego. The experience of merging would be the sudden or gradual awareness of this atman. Most of us live day to day not being aware of it, otherwise why would anyone do anything else;))

It's hard to conceive of myself not being aware of me. But it clearly has happened before since I don't remember "me" before my birth. So to not answer your question, I don't know. I'd like to believe there's an aspect of the individual that continues - otherwise how do individual karmas follow someone into the next lives, but how that works, beats me. :)

:camp:
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Is realisation common across hindus or is it more of an exclusive thing to the mystic sages?

Both. Looking at it from a one lifetime perspective, it's very exclusive, and only happens to a few in any given 50 year span.

However, it is also the destiny of all souls. So looking at it with reincarnation in mind, every soul eventually realises its identity with God/Brahman.

Also, there are periods during the universe's time span, and also applicable to this planet, when it's easier. The entire universe is more aligned to easier realisation.

But at this particular time in His dance (Kali Yuga) it's rare and difficult.
 

Badran

Veteran Member
Premium Member
***Mod post***

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The Same Faith Debates subforum is specifically for debate between members of the same faith. Members that are not part of a same faith debate thread's selected faith may not post at all in those threads. The Political "Only" subforums are also used specifically for that group and may not be posted in by members that do not correspond to the political position of the subforum. These two forums are colored purple.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
Generally speaking, 'creation' is an inaccurate term. It's there because western indologists, in the attempt to study us, had no better word.

A more accurate word is emanation, and an analogy is rain from clouds. Clouds do not create raindrops, raindrops just fall naturally from clouds.

So form (the universe) comes out of formlessness (Brahman). There is no prurpose other than God extending himself, as part of his play, or dance.

^ This, plain and simple.

It's his very nature, and one of the lovely mysteries of the universe.

Yes, Adi Shankaracharya wrote (Brahma Sutra Bhasya 2.1.33) that creation is the recreation, or play of Brahman.
 

Kalidas

Well-Known Member
^ This, plain and simple.



Yes, Adi Shankaracharya wrote (Brahma Sutra Bhasya 2.1.33) that creation is the recreation, or play of Brahman.

Which touches on what I said originally. The universe exists because it exists. There really is no greater purpose, or if there was we won't ever know it.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
And if I am not mistaken, Ka&#347;mir &#346;aivism says that the world is the embodiment of Shiva, not only an emanation, and is indeed real, unlike advaita's concept of m&#257;y&#257;. You know, there was a Ka&#347;mir Vaishnavism, but seems to have died out long ago. Shame because I think the Ka&#347;mir &#346;aivism view is very interesting and attractive. Maybe I can revive Ka&#347;mir Vaishnavism. :D
 

Elector

Member
Pranams,

As pointed earlier, in Hinduism there is no "creation" or "destruction", only manifestation and unmanifestation -- i.e. mere cyclic transformation.
It is, therefore, important to note that there is no "first purpose" here, because there is no "first creation" to begin with.
As for the purpose of this continuous cyclic transformation -- it is the exhaustion of Karma-s of the Jiva-s (living beings). Of course this may seem - at first glance - a weird nonsensical human-centric vision seeing as we are merely specks of dust in this infinite cosmos; yet we must bear in mind that the premises of the Vedic vision vary greatly from the common layman's vision.
The two basic premises are:
1) Consciousness is the substratum of matter. Thus the emphasis in Vedanta is on the subject (Atman/Consciousness), and not the object (matter).
2) The macrocosm and the microcosm function qualitatively similar; only quantity differs. [note here microcosm does not mean atomic/quantum level; it refers to our (human's) perspective]

Now to understand the purpose of the macrocosmic universe, it would be helpful to probe into the Jiva's purpose of reincarnation (which is again, only manifestation and unmanifestation); because as noted by premise (2), they function similarly. The Jiva unmanifests at the exhaustion of the body, and becomes manifest at the acquisition of a new body. Why does the Jiva reincarnate? It reincarnates only because the Karma-s force/urge/compel the Jiva to manifest for the exhaustion of his Karma-s. Similarly, this whole universal cyclic transformation is only for the exhaustion of the totality of the Jiva-s' Karma-s.
 
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