The purpose of creation

[SuzyL]

I don't have a name for what I believe in. I know that we all have multiple beliefs/worldviews/morals that overlap. A lot of us say that there are certain names that shape those worldviews. It's like having a cake. Instead of saying eggs, flower, and icing together in a nice fluffly and sweet desert, we just say Cake.

I used to believe that if I put my "sins" on Jesus that somehow his death that happened over 2,000 years ago will somehow rid me of what I don't have. Since a lot of people feel they need Jesus and a whole lot of other things, they call themselves Christians. (I loved be Catholic; and that is what I called myself)

I droped that for various reasons and none had to do with the practices themselves.

I knew that not only I have to sacrifice by bad deeds (as we all do) and we can't do it alone, I also realized that I am actually born with a good nature. A good, child heart. Innocent. All of these indegredients, I called myself another religion. Buddhist. (Nichiren Buddhist). I have my Gohonzon. I still believe In it. (Long story of translation), and that is my object of wroship--myself.

I stopped practicing. All the knowledge that I have of my true nature, of what I need to "get rid of" was just life. It wasn't anything special. I couldn't figure out how to put a dogma/a practice/a religion behind it because it just made common sense.



My grandmother passed last year today. That whole year I started looking more into my family. I went to thanksgiving and met for the first time my mothers side of the family. I felt so different--like the Buddha, the Christ, and all the religious figures in the world couldn't replace. They were not my blood. They were not part of me as in my family. Yes, we are all humans and we all share divine wisdom and many ways we call it, but nothing is like being with family.

So, I started talking with my grandmother in spirit. It was also part of the grieving process, I know; but, my family has always knew spirits live on earth (most my family are christian so they believe they are in heaven). My intermediate family knew our spirit relatives are with us. It is a connection just like living family. No different. Nothing special. When I go to my altar sometimes and sit with my grandmother or even talk to her to talk to my ancestors, to know who I am sometimes, it makes me burst into tears.

All of these things that I do are everyday life to me. The grieving is unfortunate. I realized that when I keep trying to label ingredients so they make sense in one word, it doesn't work. It doesn't work when my mother practiced witchcraft but she thought of it as A, Pagans think of it as B, Neopagans think of it as C. Native cultures think of it as D, and so forth. So, I just drop the label.

I don't have a religion. I dont have a belief.

Through all the things I've gone through medically, I should just apreciate what I know I have, that is life. Everything is wrapped around what I know not just what I believe.

Budddhanature, Christ, God, Cosmos, Consciousness, whatever. (I'm talking through emotions), I don't care.

I heard of the word Apathist in this RF forum. It means someone who doesn't care about religion or anything like that. It's not that I dont care to know my family, talk to spirits, live life.

I just don't find it important to ask Why.

That's why I dont have a religion.

But you do have a religion - and you just summed it up above. At least for me, core beliefs ARE a person's religion. One of the definitions of religion is: "a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance."

As a Swedenborgian, I also do not believe that the murder of Jesus was redemption for the sins of the human race because "God the father" was moved by this murder. This does seem sort of the ultimate nonsense to me because if someone killed my son I would not react by forgiving everyone. It is an irrational belief. I do however believe that the Lord God Jesus Christ is the creator and redeemer of each of us.

 

[Senseless]

In what way are we all God? I personally certainly don't feel god-like. I can't create anything at all.

I guess I am a Neo-Platonist as in the shadows on the wall of the cave. Do you identify with that at all?

We are all part of 'God', and 'God' is defined as the sum of all consciousness, all souls. I guess that's where we disagree, and what we should have established at the very beginning. What is god?

It's a work in progress, in any case. My head is in the middle of a revolution.

 

[Ouroboros]

In what way are we all God? I personally certainly don't feel god-like.

How do you know how a god is supposed to feel like? Have you had the god-like feeling before so you know how to compare to how you feel now?

I can't create anything at all.

Of course you can. You created the post I'm responding to.

 

[SuzyL]

We are all part of 'God', and 'God' is defined as the sum of all consciousness, all souls. I guess that's where we disagree, and what we should have established at the very beginning. What is god?

It's a work in progress, in any case. My head is in the middle of a revolution.

For me God is all good and all truth, all love and all wisdom. He can and does only love us, each of us, the same. It is his divine design that we all live in heaven, living useful lives, to eternity in happiness. We can always chose to NOT live good useful lives and NOT live in heaven but it is nevertheless God's will that we do.

 

[SuzyL]

How do you know how a god is supposed to feel like? Have you had the god-like feeling before so you know how to compare to how you feel now?


Of course you can. You created the post I'm responding to.

Well, I wrote something but that isn't even a tangible thing. Just an idea. I would actually postulate that the idea wasn't even
my creation - but that would really be splitting hairs. I really do believe that all things are created by God. I was created by God but I am not a part of God in that I am not divine. But, I would not exist without the love of the divine...and I do feel that love every day.

 

[metis]

Of course you don't need to assume that there is a purpose to creation but how does that appeal to your rational sense?

I'm not sure what you mean by "rational sense". Does one have to be overtly religious, for example, to have a "rational sense"? Or are you using that terminology to refer to the issue of moral development?

To me, the main issue is enjoying life and hopefully helping others to do the same, but in a moral way.

 

[Revoltingest]

As a Swedenborgian I am taught that the purpose of creation is a heaven from the human race. What does your religion teach you? What makes sense to you?

Greetings!

Have some of today's snack from the RF staff break room....

 

[SuzyL]

I'm not sure what you mean by "rational sense". Does one have to be overtly religious, for example, to have a "rational sense"? Or are you using that terminology to refer to the issue of moral development?

To me, the main issue is enjoying life and hopefully helping others to do the same, but in a moral way.

No, by rational sense, I just mean does it rationally make sense to you? Can you reason your way to it?

 

[SuzyL]

No, by rational sense, I just mean does it rationally make sense to you? Can you reason your way to it?

Like Descartes did when he said, "I think therefore I am." That was him making sense out of the question of his existence....for example.

 

[metis]

No, by rational sense, I just mean does it rationally make sense to you? Can you reason your way to it?

I don't know if this is what you're looking for but I tend to think that we tend to attach a "purpose of creation" ourselves, therefore it is all highly subjective. I explained my position, but I'm still not quite sure what you're driving at.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

But you do have a religion - and you just summed it up above. At least for me, core beliefs ARE a person's religion. One of the definitions of religion is: "a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance."

As a Swedenborgian, I also do not believe that the murder of Jesus was redemption for the sins of the human race because "God the father" was moved by this murder. This does seem sort of the ultimate nonsense to me because if someone killed my son I would not react by forgiving everyone. It is an irrational belief. I do however believe that the Lord God Jesus Christ is the creator and redeemer of each of us.

I guess it depends on how one defines religion for themselves. I believe a religion/a cake (not religions/isolated ingredients) should shape who you are, your worldview, and so on and so forth. Like my analogy, it's a cake. Below does not make up a cake; they contradict each other. So they are not my religion.

If I were to list my worldviews I'd say I'm a:

Nichiren Buddhist
Witch/Pagan (Belief/polytheistic in multiple spirits rather than multiple gods, though)
Atheist (disbelief in god(s))
Apathist to an extent (Religions usually ask "what is our purpose?" I have no reason to ask)
Pantheist
Animist
Catholic (My interpretation is different than most Christians, though)

(Which makes it hard to talk in a DIR )

If I listed what I practice, it would be:

Ancestran veneration
Worship to nature
Meditation
Prayer
Ritual
and so forth...

To be religious (have a religion) is to adopt these beliefs/practices into your life not just have them as a worldview. They should be your life not just your practice. They should not contradict each other. I cannot (and am not) a Catholic and a Pagan. That does not make sense. I cannot bow to the Gohonzon (Nichiren Buddhism) then place a Buddha statue next to the sacrament. So on and so forth...

So, my "religion" is life.

Speaking to my ancestors, spirits, veneration, and so forth is not special. I have been doing that for years. They are practices like eating Cheerios in the morning or jogging in the evening. Nothing special.



That's an interesting look at Jesus death. When I practiced Catholicism, for me, it was more being Jesus and by doing so, through the sacraments live, be crucified, and resurrected in lifestyle, confession, and prayer and penance to reunite myself to Jesus' Father. How I did this is when taking the Eucharist, that's how you connect with Christ. It's a beautiful faith when you take out the contradictory nature of the Father expecting His creation to worship Him, saying only Catholics can take the Eucharist (rather than all Christians), and the continued history and present oppression of many Catholics who leave their faith because of the way Christianity is setup politically not just religiously.

Anyway, I hate contradictions--not biblical ones but spiritual ones.

Afterawhile, I'm just not carring about having a religion. I just live life as I described above, and if others call it a religion rather than life, than so be.

 

[SuzyL]

Interesting that you put it that way. One basic tenant of Swedenborg is that "religion is of life." By that it means that you can tell what someone believes in by the way the person lives. If you believe you should love your neighbor but let your trash blow into their yard, then you are not loving them. If you believe you should practice charity to all but are completely selfish, then you don't really believe you should practice charity.

 

[metis]

Interesting that you put it that way. One basic tenant of Swedenborg is that "religion is of life." By that it means that you can tell what someone believes in by the way the person lives. If you believe you should love your neighbor but let your trash blow into their yard, then you are not loving them. If you believe you should practice charity to all but are completely selfish, then you don't really believe you should practice charity.

My wife is Catholic and I attend church with her regularly (and she attends my synagogue as well, btw), and one of the priests there that we liked so much had a saying that relates to the above: "Joe thought he was going to heaven for what he did on Sunday but went to hell for what he did on Monday". Another one was "Joe only missed heaven by a bit more than a foot-- the distance from his head to his heart".

Poor Joe, whomever he is.

 

[Ouroboros]

Well, I wrote something but that isn't even a tangible thing. Just an idea. I would actually postulate that the idea wasn't even
my creation - but that would really be splitting hairs.

So some mystical powers, not you, gave you the idea, and the same mystical powers magically moved your fingers to post all these things? I guess you're nothing but a robot for that mystical power that is not you. Or is it you? If it is you, then you can create. You're a creator. That's where the word comes from, humans who create things.

I really do believe that all things are created by God. I was created by God but I am not a part of God in that I am not divine. But, I would not exist without the love of the divine...and I do feel that love every day.

That's fine. But I believe differently.

But think of it though. If you're not a creator, but a creator creates things through you, then you're a vessel, a carried, a "robot for his/her/it divine powers, so that means you have to have the divine in you if you're not a creator but can create things anyway.

 

[DawudTalut]

As a Swedenborgian I am taught that the purpose of creation is a heaven from the human race. What does your religion teach you? What makes sense to you?

Peace be on you.
What you asked @ http://www.religiousforums.com/search/7263546/?q=purpose+of+creation&o=relevance&c[user][0]=15022
Welcome.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

As a Swedenborgian I am taught that the purpose of creation is a heaven from the human race. What does your religion teach you? What makes sense to you?

I think this makes sense.

Purpose is the most creative force, and humans are the most purposeful creative beings that we know of in all creation..

So it is logical that we are the primary intended beneficiaries of this creation.

And the greatest possible purpose, motive, desired result : Love (Heaven)

 

[SuzyL]

So some mystical powers, not you, gave you the idea, and the same mystical powers magically moved your fingers to post all these things? I guess you're nothing but a robot for that mystical power that is not you. Or is it you? If it is you, then you can create. You're a creator. That's where the word comes from, humans who create things.


That's fine. But I believe differently.

But think of it though. If you're not a creator, but a creator creates things through you, then you're a vessel, a carried, a "robot for his/her/it divine powers, so that means you have to have the divine in you if you're not a creator but can create things anyway.

Yes, I like the analogy - once often used to describe a person in my religion - a vessel into which the divine flows, if/when we allow it to. We can shut it off.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

As a Swedenborgian I am taught that the purpose of creation is a heaven from the human race. What does your religion teach you? What makes sense to you?

You are presuming ...

• that there is a purpose, and
• that such a purpose is comprehensible.

The problem is, even if we presume preternatural agency, I can think of nothing other than naiveté that would suggest 'purpose' has any relevancy, or that "what makes sense to us" has the slightest chance of serving as a useful metric.

In brief, I do not believe that you question is meaningful; it's more like asking "what do you think purple tastes like.

 

[Ouroboros]

Yes, I like the analogy - once often used to describe a person in my religion - a vessel into which the divine flows, if/when we allow it to.

Then you do have the divine in you. In every part of you, integrated with your mind, and filling every space of void. Essentially, you have the divine spark within you, and everything else does too.

We can shut it off.

Don't think so. It would require a will and power greater than the divine force to resist it.

 

[SuzyL]

You are presuming ...

• that there is a purpose, and
• that such a purpose is comprehensible.

The problem is, even if we presume preternatural agency, I can think of nothing other than naiveté that would suggest 'purpose' has any relevancy, or that "what makes sense to us" has the slightest chance of serving as a useful metric.

In brief, I do not believe that you question is meaningful; it's more like asking "what do you think purple tastes like.

So you are more comfortable with thinking that there is absolutely no purpose. And as a Swedenborgian I most definitely DO believe that there is a divine purpose and that it is completely comprehensible.

Then you do have the divine in you. In every part of you, integrated with your mind, and filling every space of void. Essentially, you have the divine spark within you, and everything else does too.


Don't think so. It would require a will and power greater than the divine force to resist it.

We have to be able to resist the Lord's divine providence if we have free will. That free will allows us to ignore his will to have us all with Him to eternity in heaven. Without free will we would all be robots, unable to do anything other than his will, right? This to me means we can chose to ignore him. And I also believe that the Lord flows into all of us (or we would die immediately) - it is our reception of him that differs - again, because of our free will. We can, if you will allow me to continue with the vessel analogy, we can damage that vessel so that it won't hold the Lord's love, or we can even turn it upside down and block his love off. But the Lord's love is steadfast and unceasing...because he is ALL LOVE and hence the origin of all love.