The Rapture

[james2ko]

I believe it will happen at the end of the Tribulation, and again at the end of the thousand years.

I believe the woman is only Israel. The offspring who have the testimony of Christ are Jews who have trusted Christ during the Tribulation who will flee, probably to Petra.

I believe those who "came out of" the tribulation are tribulation saints who were martyred, killed, so they aren't mortal. The few saints who survive the Tribulation will repopulate the earth.

And I believe many professing "Christians" are going to be very disappointed when Christ returns.

 

[javajo]

And I believe many professing "Christians" are going to be very disappointed when Christ returns.

Me too. We should all pray fervently for one another that the Holy Spirit will guide us into all truth and help us grow and be ready for his return. And we should love one another deeply, as love covers a multitude of sins. Even so, come Lord Jesus. Amen.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I believe those who "came out of" the tribulation are tribulation saints who were martyred, killed, so they aren't mortal. The few saints who survive the Tribulation will repopulate the earth.

Those of Rev [7v14] 'come out' ALIVE of the great tribulation [Matt 24v21]
The tribulation days are 'cut short' because of the chosen [elect] ones.

The saints [holy ones] of Daniel [7vs18,22,27] rule in the heavens with Christ.
-Rev 20v6; 14v4; 5vs9,10.

Jesus 'brothers' of Matthew [25v40] are not the humble sheep of verse 32.

Jesus 'brothers' are the saints/holy ones who inherit heaven.- 1st Cor 15v50.

Those in heaven [Rev 5vs9,10] serve as: kings and priests.
Kings and priests have to have subjects in order to reign.
The 'sheep' are the start or beginning of the world-wide earthly subjects of Psalm 72v8. They will be followed by those that have an earthly resurrection such as those between Genesis and Malachi and died before Jesus died.
-John 3v13; Acts 2v34; Matthew 11v11.

 

[WALL]

And I believe many professing "Christians" are going to be very disappointed when Christ returns.

JER.16 [19] O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.

Yeah, it seems so

 

[javajo]

Those of Rev [7v14] 'come out' ALIVE of the great tribulation [Matt 24v21]
The tribulation days are 'cut short' because of the chosen [elect] ones.

The saints [holy ones] of Daniel [7vs18,22,27] rule in the heavens with Christ.
-Rev 20v6; 14v4; 5vs9,10.

Jesus 'brothers' of Matthew [25v40] are not the humble sheep of verse 32.

Jesus 'brothers' are the saints/holy ones who inherit heaven.- 1st Cor 15v50.

Those in heaven [Rev 5vs9,10] serve as: kings and priests.
Kings and priests have to have subjects in order to reign.
The 'sheep' are the start or beginning of the world-wide earthly subjects of Psalm 72v8. They will be followed by those that have an earthly resurrection such as those between Genesis and Malachi and died before Jesus died.
-John 3v13; Acts 2v34; Matthew 11v11.

I guess we understand that differently then.

 

[james2ko]

JER.16 [19] O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.

Yeah, it seems so

The irony lies in the fact that every Christian follower and or group believes these types of passages apply to others but never question or consider whether it may apply to them..Mat 7:21-23 is another. There are others.

 

[javajo]

The irony lies in the fact that every Christian follower and or group believes these types of passages apply to others but never question or consider whether it may apply to them..Mat 7:21-23 is another. There are others.

That's very true. Verse 22 says, Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

These people were trying to enter Heaven by their own good works and self-righteous deeds instead of entering through the Door, Jesus Christ. (I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, John 10:9a)

For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. (Rom. 10:2-4)
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference. (Rom. 3:22)
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. (2 Cor. 5:21)

 

[URAVIP2ME]

How do you know those people of Matt 7 were trying to enter: heaven ?

The only resurrection before Christ's death was an earthly resurrection.
A resurrection to everlasting life on earth.

No one had the heavenly hope before Christ.- John 3v13; Acts 2v34

The Hebrew faithful mentioned at Hebrews [11vs13,39] did Not receive the promise.

 

[javajo]

Point is they tried to enter on their own merit, not Christ's.

 

[james2ko]

That's very true. Verse 22 says, Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

These people were trying to enter Heaven by their own good works and self-righteous deeds instead of entering through the Door, Jesus Christ. (I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, John 10:9a)

I'm afraid you are reading into the passage a biased and unwarranted assumption. Notice the key verse you left out:

Mat 7:23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice LAWLESSNESS!'​

The contextual reference is false prophets. These false prophets prophesy in Christ name;cast out demons; do wonderful works and teach others to do the same. But they do these things without regard for God's law (ten commandments)--lawlessness. They say that obedience to God's law is done away with grace as its replacement. They teach that the Old Covenant was the Ten Commandments. It maintains that Christ came to establish a "new covenant" containing only grace and promises--liberty to do whatever one sees fit. Law is not included in their package. In their own minds, these false prophets have devised a way to "have a good time" and have a clear conscience. They had to eliminate the source of their gnawing guilt. The solution is simple: "Grace alone 'saves' men. The burden of commandment-keeping is no longer necessary." Notice what Jude said about these men:

For certain men have slipped in stealthily, who were designated long ago for this condemnation, ungodly ones, who change the grace of our God into LICENTIOUSNESS and who deny our only Master and Lord Jesus Christ. Jude 3-4​

Even before the New Testament was completely written, ungodly men had crept into the Church in an attempt to corrupt it by turning grace into lasciviousness or licentiousness. Licentiousness means "license to sin." It could also be defined as 'unrestrained liberty" or "abuse of privilege." In essence, this meant license to do what seems right in one’s own eyes, according to one's own conscience. No wonder we have thousands of different Christian sects and denominations! This was precisely the false gospel taught by Simon Magus, Nicholas of Samaria, Cerinthus and other “founders” of counterfeit Christianity. Just as Simon Magus (Acts 8:9-24) and others turned God’s grace into license to disobey His law, this same attitude permeates the minds of most professing Christians today!

 

[javajo]

I'm afraid you are reading into the passage a biased and unwarranted assumption. Notice the key verse you left out:

Mat 7:23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice LAWLESSNESS!'​

The contextual reference is false prophets. These false prophets prophesy in Christ name;cast out demons; do wonderful works and teach others to do the same. But they do these things without regard for God's law (ten commandments)--lawlessness. They say that obedience to God's law is done away with grace as its replacement. They teach that the Old Covenant was the Ten Commandments. It maintains that Christ came to establish a "new covenant" containing only grace and promises--liberty to do whatever one sees fit. Law is not included in their package. In their own minds, these false prophets have devised a way to "have a good time" and have a clear conscience. They had to eliminate the source of their gnawing guilt. The solution is simple: "Grace alone 'saves' men. The burden of commandment-keeping is no longer necessary." Notice what Jude said about these men:

For certain men have slipped in stealthily, who were designated long ago for this condemnation, ungodly ones, who change the grace of our God into LICENTIOUSNESS and who deny our only Master and Lord Jesus Christ. Jude 3-4​

Even before the New Testament was completely written, ungodly men had crept into the Church in an attempt to corrupt it by turning grace into lasciviousness or licentiousness. Licentiousness means "license to sin." It could also be defined as 'unrestrained liberty" or "abuse of privilege." In essence, this meant license to do what seems right in one’s own eyes, according to one's own conscience. No wonder we have thousands of different Christian sects and denominations! This was precisely the false gospel taught by Simon Magus, Nicholas of Samaria, Cerinthus and other “founders” of counterfeit Christianity. Just as Simon Magus (Acts 8:9-24) and others turned God’s grace into license to disobey His law, this same attitude permeates the minds of most professing Christians today!

I am definitely against licentiousness and disobedience to God. Instead of workers of lawlessness, my Bible says workers of iniquity. I believe they were sinning in depending on their own self-righteous deeds instead of trusting in Christ and receiving his righteousness imputed unto them in place of their own 'filthy rags' righteousness. In the passage above it says those who do the will of my Father will enter the kingdom. Jesus said, this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life.

I do believe we are under a new testament brought about by the death of the testator, Jesus Christ, as Hebrews teaches. The law came by Moses, but grace and truth by Jesus Christ as John says. We know that by the works of the law no man is justified, but by faith in Christ. We are told not to use this liberty for a cloak of maliciousness, an occasion to the flesh or a stumblingblock to them that are weak. We are told to, Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

 

[james2ko]

I am definitely against licentiousness and disobedience to God. Instead of workers of lawlessness, my Bible says workers of iniquity. I believe they were sinning in depending on their own self-righteous deeds instead of trusting in Christ and receiving his righteousness imputed unto them in place of their own 'filthy rags' righteousness. In the passage above it says those who do the will of my Father will enter the kingdom. Jesus said, this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life.

I do believe we are under a new testament brought about by the death of the testator, Jesus Christ, as Hebrews teaches. The law came by Moses, but grace and truth by Jesus Christ as John says. We know that by the works of the law no man is justified, but by faith in Christ. We are told not to use this liberty for a cloak of maliciousness, an occasion to the flesh or a stumblingblock to them that are weak. We are told to, Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Check the lexicons. The terms iniquity and sin are used synonymously. What is sin? 1Jn 3:4 tells us: The trangression of the law--LAWLESSNESS!

Rom 6:1-2 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, "YOU SHALL NOT COVET."

Rom 7:12-13 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good. 13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful.​

The scriptures are plain---it's law AND grace. Not law OR grace. When God lifts the veil of deception, this will be made clear. May He speed that day!

Being it's a bit off topic, If you'd like to discuss it, Pegg and I discussed it in depth here

 

[WALL]

That's very true. Verse 22 says, Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

These people were trying to enter Heaven by their own good works and self-righteous deeds instead of entering through the Door, Jesus Christ.

Good mornin Javajo
If you let scripture interpret scripture its easy to figure out who the "many" are

MATT.7 [22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?[23] And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: DEPART FROM ME, YE THAT WORK INIQUITY.

PSALMS 119 [113] I hate vain thoughts: but thy law do I love.[114] Thou art my hiding place and my shield: I hope in thy word.[115] DEPART FROM ME, YE EVILDOERS: FOR I WILL KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF MY GOD.[116] Uphold me according unto thy word, that I may live: and let me not be ashamed of my hope.

Seems there will be many people who will be saying “I believe” when Jesus returns. Who had talked of Jesus and spoke in his name. Some that even have cast out devils in the name of Jesus. But “in that day” Jesus will say to “the many”, depart from me...I never knew you.

TITUS 1 [13] This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; [14] Not giving heed to Jewish fables, AND COMMANDMENTS OF MEN, that turn from the truth. [15] Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. [16] THEY PROFESS THAT THEY KNOW GOD; BUT IN WORKS THEY DENY HIM, being abominable, AND DISOBEDIENT, and unto every good work reprobate.

In Titus you will find people that profess they know God (they say they believe) but in works they deny Him. They do not know God.

1JOHN2 [3] AND HEREBY WE DO KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS.[4] He that saith, i know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.[5] But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

So according to scripture it is just not enough to simply say you believe. Theres a lot more to it.

After all....

JAMES 2 [17] Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. [18] Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. [19] Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: THE DEVILS ALSO BELIEVE, and tremble.

 

[WALL]

Whoops
Thought i was on the sabbath thread. Sorry

 

[james2ko]

But it says the wicked will be removed and the righteous remain. Those who are saved during the Tribulation will remain to populate the earth and the wicked are destroyed at Christ's coming.

I believe Those Saints who survive the Tribulation will populate the earth as mortals and that everyone else will have their changed, immortal, sinless, glorified bodies that were resurrected or raptured, and will rule and reign with Christ during the Millennial Reign.

Many civilians will be destroyed by the seven trumpet plagues in Rev 16. Rev 19 is an inset chapter describing an event at Christ's return. He will be greeted by a 200 million man military coalition gathered at Megiddo to fight against Him and the returning Saints (Joel 3:9-17; Rev 16:12-16). Verse 21 implies the whole army will be destroyed. But notice what Jude states Christ and the Saints will do to when they return to a devastated earth:

Jud 1:14-16 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, 15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. 16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.
​

When Christ returns to rule the earth with the Saints, they will come to judge and "CONVINCE or REPROVE" --not destroy or kill (different Greek words) ALL the wicked men that are left! (Isa 24:6). In addition, Jude's statement would not make any sense if ONLY righteous mortal Saints were the only ones left to populate the earth. What ungodly deeds would they need to be convinced of?

 

[javajo]

Check the lexicons. The terms iniquity and sin are used synonymously. What is sin? 1Jn 3:4 tells us: The trangression of the law--LAWLESSNESS!

Rom 6:1-2 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, "YOU SHALL NOT COVET."

Rom 7:12-13 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good. 13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful.​

The scriptures are plain---it's law AND grace. Not law OR grace. When God lifts the veil of deception, this will be made clear. May He speed that day!

Being it's a bit off topic, If you'd like to discuss it, Pegg and I discussed it in depth here

Like I said, I am against licentiousness. I agree with those verses. Once a person has been freely saved by grace and the Holy Spirit takes up residence in their heart, a change takes place and they want to please God. Romans 11:6 says;

And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. And Galatians 3:7 & 5:4 say, But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

This same teaching is found in Romans 4 and even in James 2:

2For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
23And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Ephesians 2 and Titus 3 show us the same thing, that we are saved by grace through faith, UNTO good works. The works/obeying God's law proving that a change has taken place.

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works,
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us...they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

It is wrong to sin because we have been freely saved as it is also wrong to add anything we might do to what Christ did to 'help' him save us. Good works are important when kept in the proper perspective.

 

[javajo]

Many civilians will be destroyed by the seven trumpet plagues in Rev 16. Rev 19 is an inset chapter describing an event at Christ's return. He will be greeted by a 200 million man military coalition gathered at Megiddo to fight against Him and the returning Saints (Joel 3:9-17; Rev 16:12-16). Verse 21 implies the whole army will be destroyed. But notice what Jude states Christ and the Saints will do to when they return to a devastated earth:

Jud 1:14-16 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, 15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. 16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.
​

When Christ returns to rule the earth with the Saints, they will come to judge and "CONVINCE or REPROVE" --not destroy or kill (different Greek words) ALL the wicked men that are left! (Isa 24:6). In addition, Jude's statement would not make any sense if ONLY righteous mortal Saints were the only ones left to populate the earth. What ungodly deeds would they need to be convinced of?

I'll just agree to disagree here.

 

[javajo]

So according to scripture it is just not enough to simply say you believe. Theres a lot more to it.

After all....

JAMES 2 [17] Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. [18] Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. [19] Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: THE DEVILS ALSO BELIEVE, and tremble.

Key word being "say". One who has been truly saved by faith in Christ's finished workon the cross will never be the same again.

 

[javajo]

Back to the Rapture...I found this list I thought was interesting: (gonna cut in half, was too long)

50 Reasons for the Pretribulation Rapture

Historical Argument
1. While posttribulationism appeared as early as 2 Thessalonians 2, many in the early church believed in the imminency of the Lord's return, which is an essential doctrine of pretribulationism.
2. The detailed development of the pretribulational truth during the past few centuries does not prove that the doctrine is new or novel. Its development is similar to that of other major doctrines in the history of the church.
Hermeneutics
3. Pretribulationism is the only view that allows literal interpretation of all Old and New Testament passages on the Great Tribulation.
4. Pretribulationism distinguishes clearly between Israel and the church and their respective programs.
Nature of the Tribulation
5. Pretribulationism maintains the scriptural distinction between the Great Tribulation and tribulation in general that precedes it.
6. The Great Tribulation is properly interpreted by pretribulationists as a time of preparation for Israel's restoration (Deu. 4:29-30; Jer. 30:4-11). It is not the purpose of the Tribulation to prepare the church for glory.
7. None of the Old Testament passages on the Tribulation mention the church (Deu. 4:29-30; Jer. 30: 4-11; Dan. 8:24-27; 12:1-2).
8. None of the New Testament passages on the Tribulation mention the church (Matt. 13:30; 39-42, 48-50; 24:15-31; 1 Thess. 1:9-10; 5:4-9; 2 Thess. 2:1-11; Rev. 4-18).
9. In contrast to midtribulationism, the pretribulational view provides an adequate explanation for the beginning of the Great Tribulation in Revelation 6. Midtribulationism is refuted by the plain teaching of Scripture that the Great Tribulation begins long before the seventh trumpet of Revelation 11.
10. The proper distinction is maintained between the prophetic trumpets of Scripture by pretribulationism. There is no proper ground for the pivotal argument of midtribulationism that the seventh trumpet of Revelation is the last trumpet in that there is no established connection between the seventh trumpet of Revelation 11, the last trumpet of 1 Corinthians 15:52, and the trumpet of Matthew 24:31. They are three distinct events.
11. The unity of Daniel's seventieth week is maintained by pretribulationists. By contrast, postribulationism and midtribulationists destroy the unity of Daniel's seventieth week and confuse Israel's program with that of the church.
Nature of the Church
12. The translation of the church is never mentioned in any passage dealing with the second coming of Christ after the Tribulation.
13. The church is not appointed to wrath (Rom. 5:9: 1 Thess. 1:9-10; 5:9). The church therefore cannot enter "the great day of their wrath" (Rev. 6:17).
14. The church will not be overtaken by the day of the Lord (1 Thess. 5:1-9, which includes the Tribulation.
15. The possibility of a believer escaping the Tribulation is mentioned in Luke 21:36.
16. The church of Philadelphia was promised deliverance from "the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth" (Rev. 3:10).
17. It is characteristic of divine dealing to deliver believers before a divine judgment is inflicted on the world as illustrated in the deliverance of Noah, Lot, Rahab, etc. (2 Peter 2:5-9).
18. At the time of the translation of the church, all believers go to the Father's house in heaven (John 14:3) and do not immediately return to the earth after meeting Christ in the air as postribulationists teach.
19. Pretribulationism does not divide the body of Christ at the Rapture on a works principle. The teaching of a partial rapture is based on the false doctrine that the translation of the church is a reward for good works. It is rather a climactic aspect of salvation by grace.
20. The Scriptures clearly teach that all, not part, of the church will be raptured at the coming of Christ for the church (1 Cor. 15:51-52; 1 Thess. 4:17).
21. As opposed to a view of a partial rapture, pretribulationism is founded on the definite teaching of Scripture that the death of Christ frees from all condemnation.
22. The godly remnant of the Tribulation are pictured as Israelites, not members of the church as maintained by the posttribulationists.
23. The pretribulational view, as opposed to posttribulationism, does not confuse general terms like elect and saints, which apply to the saved of all ages, with specific terms like church and those in Christ, which refer to believers of this age only.
Doctrine of Imminency
24. The pretribulational interpretation teaches that the coming of Christ is actually imminent.
25. The exhortation to be comforted by the coming of the Lord (1 Thess. 4:18) is very significant in the pretribulational view and is especially contradicted by most posttribulationists.

Written by: John F. Walvoord
(The Rapture Question, Zondervan)

 

[javajo]

26. The exhortation to look for "the glorious appearing" of Christ to His own (Titus 2:13) loses its significance if the Tribulation must intervene first. Believers in that case should look for signs.
27. The exhortation to purify ourselves in view of the Lord's return has most significance if His coming is imminent (1 John 3:2-3).
28. The church is uniformly exhorted to look for the coming of the Lord, while believers in the Tribulation are directed to look for signs.
The Work of the Holy Spirit
29. The Holy Spirit as the restrainer of evil cannot be taken out of the world unless the church, which the Spirit indwells, is translated at the same time. The Tribulation cannot begin until this restraint is lifted.
30. The Holy Spirit as the restrainer must be taken out of the world before "the lawless one," who dominates the tribulation period, can be revealed (2 Thess. 2:6-8).
31. If the expression "except there come a falling away first" (KJV) is translated literally, "except the "departure" come first," it would plainly show the necessity of the Rapture taking place before the beginning of the Tribulation.
Necessity of an Interval Between the Rapture and the Second Coming
32. According to 2 Corinthians 5:10, all believers of this age must appear before the judgment seat of Christ in heaven, an event never mentioned in the detailed accounts connected with the second coming of Christ to the earth.
33. If the twenty-four elders of Revelation 4:1-5:14 are representative of the church as many expositors believe, it would necessitate the rapture and reward of the church before the Tribulation.
34. The coming of Christ for His bride must take place before the Second Coming to the earth for the wedding feast (Rev. 19:7-10).
35. Tribulation saints are not translated at the second coming of Christ but carry on ordinary occupations such as farming and building houses, and they will bear children (Isa. 65:20-25). This would be impossible if the translation had taken place at the Second Coming to the earth, as posttribulationists teach.
36. The judgment of the Gentiles following the Second Coming (Matt. 25:31-46) indicates that both saved and unsaved are still in their natural bodies. This would be impossible if the translation had taken place at the Second Coming.
37. If the translation took place in connection with the Second Coming to the earth, there would be no need of separating the sheep from the goats at a subsequent judgment, but the separation would have taken place in the very act of the translation of the believers before Christ actually sets up His throne on earth (Matt. 25:31).
38. The judgment of Israel (Ezek. 20:34-38), which occurs subsequent to the Second Coming, indicates the necessity of regathering Israel. The separation of the saved from the unsaved in this judgment obviously takes place sometime after the Second Coming and would be unnecessary if the saved had previously been separated from the unsaved by translation.
Contrast Between the Rapture and the Second Coming
39. At the time of the Rapture the saints meet Christ in the air, while at the Second Coming Christ returns to the Mount of Olives to meet the saints on earth.
40. At the time of the Rapture the Mount of Olives is unchanged, while at the Second Coming it divides and a valley is formed to the east of Jerusalem (Zech. 14:4-5).
41. At the Rapture living saints are translated, while no saints are translated in connection with the second coming of Christ to the earth.
42. At the Rapture the saints go to heaven, while at the Second Coming to the earth the saints remain in the earth without translation.
43. At the time of the Rapture the world is unjudged and continues in sin, while at the Second Coming the world is judged and righteousness is established on the earth.
44. The translation of the church is pictured as a deliverance before the day of wrath, while the Second Coming is followed by the deliverance of those who have believed in Christ during the Tribulation.
45. The Rapture is described as imminent, while the Second Coming is preceded by definite signs.
46. The translation of living believers is a truth revealed only in the New Testament, while the Second Coming with its attendant events is a prominent doctrine of both Testaments.
47. The Rapture concerns only the saved, while the Second Coming deals with both saved and unsaved.
48. At the Rapture Satan is not bound, while at the Second Coming Satan is bound and cast into the abyss.
49. No unfulfilled prophecy stands between the church and the Rapture, while many signs must be fulfilled before the Second Coming.
50. No passage dealing with the resurrection of saints at the Second Coming ever mentions translation of living saints at the same time.

Written by: John F. Walvoord
(The Rapture Question, Zondervan)