The Reason of Suffering

[icy ghost]

Hi, I'm new to this forum so :woohoo: :tsk:

Anyway, an interesting argument my friend has put forward, for suffering is that when you think about the world, suffering seems to have no reason, and is pointless to some people, but to some theists (like my friend) they see suffering as a sort of event that holds some deeper meaning. For example, deaths like the Tsunami may have a meaning such as that life on earth is not eternal, and that life is temporary.

What do others think of this?

(wow I typed that in one sentence )

 

[Sunstone]

Sounds like your friend might be arguing that it's necessary to have a disaster in order to prove that disasters are disasters. But that begs the question of why have disasters in the first place? Or, to put it differently, why would an intelligent deity have created death and suffering just to make the point that death and suffering happen?

BTW, Welcome to the Forum!

 

[Engyo]

Hi, I'm new to this forum so :woohoo: :tsk:

Anyway, an interesting argument my friend has put forward, for suffering is that when you think about the world, suffering seems to have no reason, and is pointless to some people, but to some theists (like my friend) they see suffering as a sort of event that holds some deeper meaning. For example, deaths like the Tsunami may have a meaning such as that life on earth is not eternal, and that life is temporary.

What do others think of this?

(wow I typed that in one sentence )

Welcome, Icy Ghost!

Buddhism postulates that suffering is inherent in life, and can only be eradicated by awakening to the true nature of reality and one's life. This is known as attaining enlightenment. Check out the Buddhism Overview in the Buddhist Forum here for more info.......

 

[Darkdale]

I believe suffering to be unnecessary. I don't view suffering as a natural state of human affairs, but rather as the state of someone who has become enslaved to some powerful event. Courage would have us overcome suffering with hard determination. After the vivacity of the natural pain has ceased, we owe it to ourselves and our loved ones to be strong and move on.

 

[icy ghost]

She might argue (not that she did) that the suffering is to show that we shouldn't get too attached to the world because there is a life after death. I'm not saying this is the only reason why suffering happens, but could it be one of the many reasons?

I will check out that Buddhism thing too

 

[ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT]

http://www.watchtower.org/library/w/2003/1/1/article_02.htm


This is all..

 

[jamaesi]

To me, asking for a reason of it is sort of asking for a reason for rocks or flowers or stars or just about anything else. It just is there.
And besides, if we didn't know suffering- would we really know joy?

 

[Green Gaia]

I cannot explain why people suffer. All I know is that we must try to help them when they do.

 

[Katzpur]

Hi, I'm new to this forum so :woohoo: :tsk:

Anyway, an interesting argument my friend has put forward, for suffering is that when you think about the world, suffering seems to have no reason, and is pointless to some people, but to some theists (like my friend) they see suffering as a sort of event that holds some deeper meaning. For example, deaths like the Tsunami may have a meaning such as that life on earth is not eternal, and that life is temporary.

What do others think of this?

(wow I typed that in one sentence )

As trite as it may sound, I think that one of the major purposes of suffering is to build character. It's by overcoming hardships that we grow and progress. As much as we all hate them, most really strong people will admit (once the ordeal is over) that they are better for having experienced it.

 

[Buttons*]

Welcome to the forum!

A very dear, wise friend said to me once: "If we were perpetually happy, and could not experience pain or suffering, how would we know what happiness was?"

 

[gnomon]

Perhaps the primary cause of human suffering is due to our selfish nature. I do not mean to connote selfishness with negativity. When you suffer due to the loss of a loved one it is in connection with the self. You suffer the emotions for the person who has passed, yourself and for others. However, the closer the personal connection the greater the emotional suffering.

I also believe that much unneeded suffering is caused by the fact that "the world" does not act in a manner we wish for it. Which inevitably leads to all kinds of mindless acts to force all things into our worldview.

 

[icy ghost]

What about natural suffering, eg Earthquakes, lukemia, volcanoes? Babies who die at birth?

 

[Engyo]

What about natural suffering, eg Earthquakes, lukemia, volcanoes? Babies who die at birth?

Earthquakes, hurricanes/typhoons, tsunami, droughts, floods, volcanoes, are all just that: natural. They are a part of life on this planet; no more and no less.

Leukemia, babies who die at birth, etc., are all a part of why Buddha taught that "all life is suffering" (the first of the Four Noble Truths). Karma is often used as an explanation, but most of the time is portrayed in an extremely simplistic way which creates more confusion than it relieves, IMHO.

 

[Darkdale]

I cannot explain why people suffer. All I know is that we must try to help them when they do.

Interesting. Why should we help them when they do then?

 

[michel]

I cannot explain why people suffer. All I know is that we must try to help them when they do.

That's nice Maize, and true.

Hi, I'm new to this forum so

Anyway, an interesting argument my friend has put forward, for suffering is that when you think about the world, suffering seems to have no reason, and is pointless to some people, but to some theists (like my friend) they see suffering as a sort of event that holds some deeper meaning. For example, deaths like the Tsunami may have a meaning such as that life on earth is not eternal, and that life is temporary.

What do others think of this?

(wow I typed that in one sentence )

Jamaeosi made the point that flowers are flowers, and rocks are rocks (If I remember correctly), Maize has said something similar, and I agree with both (to some extent).

Life is full of 'nasties' without those, we would not enjoy the nice bits - that is one possible + for suffering.

Nothing in life works 'one way' ; suffering is awful, but it brings out the best in some, who go to help those who suffer........that is surely good (from the positive angle).

I don't believe that there is any 'premeditation' or even 'construction' in suffering; suffering just happens. We all suffer at some time or other, I am sure; as sure as I am that suffering is not some contrived effect to make us think in any particular way.

 

[Green Gaia]

Interesting. Why should we help them when they do then?

If you were suffering, wouldn't you want someone to help?

 

[Darkdale]

If you were suffering, wouldn't you want someone to help?

I don't know. Maybe. *shrugs*

 

[NoName]

To me, asking for a reason of it is sort of asking for a reason for rocks or flowers or stars or just about anything else. It just is there.
And besides, if we didn't know suffering- would we really know joy?

That's what I feel. Suffering is just a part of life, just as joy is a part of life. There's no "reason" that you could descifer. Except maybe there are rocks so you can know how beautiful flowers are... Which goes along nicely with "if we didn't know suffering- would we really know joy?"

Another reason why there might be suffering is because a god isn't going to watch over us and be like an overseer over his slaves. He would let us do what we wanted, and a lot of suffering just comes from poor human choices.

 

[Quiddity]

I don't know. Maybe. *shrugs*

Your consistancy amazes me Darkdale. Maize, he asked a very good question and I think his response is consistant with his question and other post.
Why should you help a person who is suffering but doesn't want the help? Would you at least try? And if so, why?

~Victor

 

[KirbyFan101]

To put it bluntly, suffering is essential to human existance (a little matrix-philosophy for you). What we want and what we THINK we want are actually worlds apart. In my mind, there are three kinds of people:

a) Those who aim, strive and accept to become superior to those around them. These people generally tend to be successful in life in terms of wealth and pleasure.

b) Those who speak of equality, but still act very much like people a. Their self denial leads them to forking out 10 bucks a month to a starving boy over in Ethiopia, and that makes things all better. These hypocrites are prodominately Celebrities and members of the left hand path.

c) Those who are so unnatural that they have twisted every instinct in themselves to conform to the ideas of some lunatic who "existed" (and I use the term loosely) a few thousand years ago. Apparently, these people are too good for the survival of the fittest scheme which nature has set out for us.

How this all relates to the initial statement is a little abstract. People suffer because they are inferior and hence nature dictates that they should pass so the species can advance forward.