CynthiaCypher
Well-Known Member
I don't discount it. I just believe it was an entirely spiritual thing
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The Resurrection of Christ
- Thread starter ForeverFaithful
- Start date
I don't discount it. I just believe it was an entirely spiritual thing
Its hard for me to believe that he was resurrected. Mostly because his departure into heaven would have been kinda awkward. Its like, he comes back to life, decides to hang out for like a month and a half, and then hes like....alright guys, see you later. And then he ascends into heaven?
Why would he stay for 40 days? Or one day as some people say?
When he "ascended" could he breathe when he got past earth's atmosphere?
Where in the universe did he go? Did he stay in the milky way or fly to Andromeda or out of the universe completely into heaven?
Why would he stay for 40 days? Or one day as some people say?
When he "ascended" could he breathe when he got past earth's atmosphere?
Where in the universe did he go? Did he stay in the milky way or fly to Andromeda or out of the universe completely into heaven?
ForeverFaithful
Son Worshiper
Jesus ascended after giving the great commission, and after He ascended a veil of clouds covered Him and He was gone, likely He had then left the physical realm to dwell again with His Father
Didn't Paul say that Jesus had kind of a different body when He resurrected? Maybe kind of a physical/supernatural nature?
If I were an Apostle and Jesus didn't rise from the dead, I think I'd be too disillusioned and demoralized to leave town and spread the gospel. Also, Jews back then didn't have a concept of a soul living on after death. They thought that at some point, they would get their bodies back and then ascent to heaven. They though that heaven was a physical place. Sorry if some of the details are incorrect. It's something I read a while back.
If I were an Apostle and Jesus didn't rise from the dead, I think I'd be too disillusioned and demoralized to leave town and spread the gospel. Also, Jews back then didn't have a concept of a soul living on after death. They thought that at some point, they would get their bodies back and then ascent to heaven. They though that heaven was a physical place. Sorry if some of the details are incorrect. It's something I read a while back.
Probably had to be there to know exactly what went on. I always thought maybe they had dreams or visions of Jesus after his death. Dreams and visions can seem very real to the individual at the time.
outhouse
Atheistically
what if yeshua had such a great message as a teacher of judaism for all! that his disciples wanted to continue what he started because of his words alone. no magic needed.
after his death and about 30 years of oral tradition based on pauls letters of seeing yeshua after death the ressurection was added to give the movement power?????????
For me to have to add magic takes away from the words that were so great and it was all that was needed.
waitasec
Veteran Member
moot. there is no historical evidence this ever happened...consider the resurrection of the dead when jesus died in matthew, such an extraordinary event needs extraordinary evidence...not one source of this event that is independent of biblical accounts mentions this extraordinary event...
waitasec
Veteran Member
if flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven, so why did his body disappear?
I don't believe in the resurrection of Christ, but I do believe in the resuscitation of Jesus. If I'm going to concede the point that there was a historical Jesus and that his disciples weren't lying outright for political or religious gain, then the theory that makes the most sense to me is that he was crucified and fell into a shock-induced coma upon the cross and then later recovered after being falsely proclaimed dead. In a time when clinical death was not well understood, it would have certainly seemed like he had literally resurrected to both himself and his followers, especially coupled with his own near-death experience. Consider also how he was not on the cross long enough to have perished from it, since it usually takes days not hours.
This way none of the disciples were being dishonest in their own interpretation of events. Of course, miracles as well as virgin birth, etc would have been additions made by subsequent groups incorporating other mythological elements they were familiar with. Then where did he go after wards? Well, considering he probably didn't want to be crucified all over again, he probably fled the land to the east, possibly to locations he had visited during the earlier years of his life between childhood and the start of his official ministry in his thirties. Obviously I consider the mainstream interpretations as well as the popular translations handed down to us as distortions over time. I also don't think he would have wanted people to worship him as a god or found a religion in his name, but that's just my opinion. It's also possible the entire thing was mythological, and by myth I don't mean a lie I mean a metaphorical expression. Maybe it was a combination of both. Whatever the case may be, it was a pretty good story.
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First of all, according to Acts [2v32] God resurrected Jesus out of hell [sheol].
Before God sent Jesus to earth, Jesus had a pre-human heavenly existence.
That is why God resurrected Jesus back to the spirit realm.
By 'hanging around' for 40 days [using different materialized bodies] Jesus could make certain to his followers that he was truly resurrected and give further or closing instructions.
Since those in the heavens do not have physical bodies as we do there is no need for earth's atmospheric conditions.
According to 1st Kings chapter 8 heaven is God's home or place of dwelling.
According to Hebrews [9v24] the ascended Jesus went and appeared before the person of God in heaven. There is a ten day gap between the time Jesus left earth and holy spirit was poured out on the day of Pentecost establishing the Christian congregation. If Jesus was traveling for those ten days that would indicate quite a long journey.
Not a physical body but spirit body.- 1st Corinthians chapter 15.
Of course the Jews had No concept of a soul living after death because Scripture teaches at death the soul dies. -Ezekiel 18vs4,20.
The Christians also believed the soul can be destroyed. - Acts 3v23
Those Jews never believed they would ascend to heaven,
but get physical bodies in an earthly resurrection during Messiah's reign over earth.
Jesus taught [John 3v13] that none that lived after Adam between Genesis and Malachi ascended to heaven. None received the fulfillment of God promise. [Hebrews 11vs13,39]
God's promise to Abraham was that all families of the earth will be blessed,
and all nations of the earth will be blessed. Blessed with curing or healing of the nations according to Revelation 22v2.
So, heaven is Not a physical/material place because God first created the spirit realm first for angelic creation.
Earth was an expansion of creation from a spirit world to now include a physical/material world for humans to inhabit forever.- Isaiah 45v18; Psalm 37v29
crystalonyx
Well-Known Member
So you really believe the "bandwagon" theory proves anything?
ForeverFaithful
Son Worshiper
I'm inviting skepticism
waitasec
Veteran Member
ok then here's a bump...
dyanaprajna2011
Dharmapala
What is the old saying? Just because something is popular doesn't mean that it's right. 
ForeverFaithful
Son Worshiper
Don't make it wrong eitherWhat is the old saying? Just because something is popular doesn't mean that it's right.
ForeverFaithful
Son Worshiper
Okay either Christ came back from the dead, or there is a LOGICAL reason that people began spreading this rumour with only risks to their personal safety, there must also be a reason none of the other Messiah figures fit Christ's mold, mainly being His resurrection and the fact that his followers didn't call it a quits 2000 years later, while most gave up as soon as their Messiah died
So what's the naturalistic explanation
So what's the naturalistic explanation
outhouse
Atheistically
you fail to understand any history at all during that period
had you understood the social and religious structure of the period you would see the gaping need for a new religion.
The fact one man planted the right seed does not indicate divinity of any way shape or form, it means the message was good enough to be watered and grown.
Looking at history there is really no need at all for anything one would consider divine. There is no indication Yeshua was anything other then a mortal man who was a teacher of judaism who was killed by romans for causing a disturbance over money [didnt like the roman tax's]
ForeverFaithful
Son Worshiper
That theory would mean
a) the Diciplces had some reason that their messiah was better then anyone elses
b) that the Early Christians didn't pay taxes
What evidence do you have for either of these claims
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
Why not inform him how he misunderstands history from that time, instead of just stating that? It would go a longer way.
And there wasn't really a gaping need for a religion during the time of Jesus. Especially considering that the original followers of Jesus, those who claimed to be witness to the resurrection, were Jews who were not trying to create a new religion. It wasn't out of a need for a new religion that the resurrection took place.
Also looking at history, it does not deny the idea of the divine either. At most, it rules it as improbable, but not impossible.
Finally, Jesus wasn't killed for not liking the Roman taxes.