"The Rich are Not the Job Creators!"

[bobhikes]

It might help if folks would watch the video referenced in the OP before commenting.

I watched you video and it confirms 2 things I already knew.

The rich do not provide trickle down wealth

Ted has an agenda that they premote.

 

[Thief]

It might help if folks would watch the video referenced in the OP before commenting.

My old machine won't play it.

Sorry if my lengthy post puts the rich guy on the spot.

But if the money won't flow......

 

[Chisti]

Businesses require capital, but where does capital come from?

 

[Revoltingest]

Businesses require capital, but where does capital come from?

Ultimately, someone makes or finds something of value to others.
Introduce the concept of money, & then things get complicated & obscured.
Example:
I work for Acme Surgical Tools.
I design a nifty new sagittal saw which has great value in the marketplace & is protected by patents.
This generates capital because the value of the company increased.
When a business increases capital by getting money, this money represents value which originated somewhere in history.

 

[Kathryn]

So, Kathryn, are you saying that the creation of jobs is as simple as giving the rich more money? Or do you think there's more to it than that?

I NEVER said that the creation of jobs is as simple as giving the rich more money. That would be a ridiculous assertion and frankly, I don't think you should lay that at my feet as if I said or implied it.

I've made it clear in many posts on this forum, that I favor a progressive tax system. So I'll make it clear on this one as well.

"I favor a progressive tax system."

 

[cablescavenger]

According to billionaire Nick Hanauer, "the rich are not the job creators". Instead, jobs are created by a feedback mechanism between consumers and businesses. Check out this short, but previously censored, TED talk by Hanauer for an explanation (The video of Hanauer's five minute talk is at the bottom of the page).

So, do you think Hanauer knows what he's talking about? Are jobs created by the rich, or by a feedback mechanism between consumers and businesses? And should the rich be getting more tax breaks to create jobs if there is little or no evidence they are actually the job creators?

Most businesses are either micro (1-10 employees), small businesses or Small to Medium enterprises (11-250 employees).

He is mostly correct, the majority of enterprises have relatively affordable barriers to entry. The Large enterprises usually have high barriers to entry and require considerable resources, but these are more the exception than the rule.

 

[Iti oj]

Watch this!

There are four basic motivations...
Faith, politics, military, and the economy.
If you want to move your fellow man you might stand behind a pulpit and convince him...God wants you to.(faith)

Or stand behind a podium and say to him....I have the plan...I have the dream.(politics)

Or get yourself a uniform and control of a militia and install martial law.

Or, last but not least, money.
There's money in it for me...a paycheck for you...the time clock is over there.

Jobs, are in deed a result of need. Find the need and fill it.
Our technology has overrun that fulcrum point.

When I was unemployed, my grandfather (having lived as a man in the Great Depression) did ask....
'Why can't you find work?'

I replied...'In your day a machine did no more than give you leverage to do the work. Nowadays, the machine replaces the workmen many times over.'

Food, clothing, shelter, and transportation are nowadays, the needs.
Everything else is want.

Technology can fill every need...yes it can.
The wanting is there but it takes excess earnings to buy them.
When the money fails to flow down the pyramid....the wanting is the first to fail...and people use their money only for need.

No one seems to notice....
The government cannot create jobs....might seem like it, in small ways.
But it's not the job of the government to control labor....might seem like it.

It's that money flow that counts.
Can the rich guy create jobs?....more readily than anyone else.
What's the hold up?....The top of the pyramid won't let go of the money.

Without capital I can't form my own tool room.
I spend myself chasing one check after another.
I am not in control.
It's the next man up...the one with the money.

goo post but i wanted to tell your grandfather about all the jobs that went overseas

 

[lunamoth]

It seems to me that a distinction can be made between "the rich" and "investors" and "philanthropists."

Simply wealth by itself is not justification for tax breaks.

 

[muhammad_isa]

And all will do so using computers brought to you by the rich..

Computers & technology are not brought to anybody 'by the rich' ..

It's mankind's intellect that has developed the internet, for example..
There should be a balance between private enterprise & government.
There are no 'correct' answers regards job creation (ie. the economic prosperity of a nation)

One things for sure! If any government make economic prosperity 'their god' or priority, they will not be successful in the long run..
..but then .. if the people who vote in the government have such priorities, then that's probably what they'll get!

 

[nnmartin]

Demand can be there all day, but without supply (ie, someone taking the risk and investing in starting a business), it's not only useless - it's frustrating.

In other words, it's a passive thing. Providing the supply to meet that demand requires action - and money, and risk, and infrastructure, and expertise, and knowledge, and a group effort, and professionalism. Hunger requires none of that.

so it's the hunger here that creates the demand - the hunger of the people is what creates the jobs and thus the wealth.

 

[Revoltingest]

so it's the hunger here that creates the demand - the hunger of the people is what creates the jobs and thus the wealth.

In any system, one cannot say that a single component is what makes it all work.
Back to my earlier analogy, which link in a chain makes the chain?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Demand can be there all day, but without supply (ie, someone taking the risk and investing in starting a business), it's not only useless - it's frustrating.

But doesn't demand induce people to provide supply? That's what they taught me in my economics courses.

BTW - the OP's video didn't say that entrepreneurs and business leaders aren't important; it argued that if we're trying to decide where to apply tax cuts to best cause actual job creation, it would be better to apply them to the middle class in order to increase demand than it would be to give tax cuts to the ultra-rich who are euphemistically called "the job creators".

 

[nnmartin]

how about my idea of lowering the wages - does that create jobs?

ie: if I pay everyone half the amount but employ a few extra staff then I am surely a 'job creator' and should receive a tax break.

What if I employ 20 people to cut my lawn with scissors - that is job creation too so I should get some kind of bonus and respect for that.

 

[nnmartin]

why don't we just put all the ultra-rich in prison for theft.

then make them do workfare at Macdonalds.

That would seem about right.

or, why not just shoot the lot of 'em!:areyoucra

 

[Penumbra]

According to billionaire Nick Hanauer, "the rich are not the job creators". Instead, jobs are created by a feedback mechanism between consumers and businesses. Check out this short, but previously censored, TED talk by Hanauer for an explanation (The video of Hanauer's five minute talk is at the bottom of the page).

So, do you think Hanauer knows what he's talking about? Are jobs created by the rich, or by a feedback mechanism between consumers and businesses? And should the rich be getting more tax breaks to create jobs if there is little or no evidence they are actually the job creators?

I agree with him. I've put basically the same charts as he has in his presentation into threads here, so yeah, I think he's correct and that much of the quantitative information speaks for itself.

-I certainly don't think taxing corporate dividends at 15% instead of 39.6% for the top bracket is helping jobs very much. Same for taxing capital gains from stock at 15% instead of 20% or so.

-I don't think putting a cap on payroll taxes to make them regressive is particularly helpful for job creation either.

-I do, however, think we need policies in place that allow ease of doing business, don't overburden small business owners, and don't tax corporations at high levels.

 

[dust1n]

And all will do so using computers brought to you by the rich and those who invested in their endeavors.

This seems to be the same gross misrepresentation you were decrying..

 

[dust1n]

It might help if folks would watch the video referenced in the OP before commenting.

Heard him on the radio randomly the other day. Basically is just noting that that 'Reagan ethos' we are all familiar with is basically fluff and has never been empirically backed up. I don't know where the rest of the conversation is even coming from...

 

[dust1n]

Businesses require capital, but where does capital come from?

The excesses/surpluses of labor, which is the fundamental capital. This is derived from our ability to do things, yah, and then deem them valuable!

 

[Sunstone]

Businesses require capital, but where does capital come from?

Ultimately, capital comes from increases in productivity.

 

[dust1n]

In any system, one cannot say that a single component is what makes it all work.
Back to my earlier analogy, which link in a chain makes the chain?

I'd tend to agree with. It wouldn't be fair to use the words 'demand' and 'supply' like they exist outside of their typical giant construction 'economics'. And in doing so, you'd have to realize that either only exist in conjuction with one another.