"The Right is way worse than the Left!!!"

[SomeRandom]

I think that's ideal. I'm not anti-capitalist, but privatizing medical care and turning it into a predatory racket that drive people into debt is ghoulish.
I was in the hospital earlier this year - almost died from sepsis - and we got ****ed hard from the resulting bills.

Yeah ngl, all the horror stories I hear from the US just makes me all the more thankful for our Medicare (healthcare system.)
I mean I have my complaints about it, but like okay. Recently I went to get my ear unblocked. It was just a build up of fluid, nothing serious. Just a bit annoying really.
Sure I waited a few hours in a clinic and sure it was inconvenient. But I didn’t pay have to pay a cent. All of it was covered by the government, because I pay my taxes.

How much would that cost me under the US scheme I have to wonder. I mean I doubt I can afford your insurance there. I can barely afford it here, really. And our private healthcare is apparently but a fraction of what your companies charge. Crazy

 

[Quintessence]

Wow!

That’s crazy!!!

I suppose our “red team” is similar. Though I don’t know to what extent. Because government funded programs are considered the norm by both parties here. Less so by the Conservative Party but still

Yeah, our Republican Party tends to be very leery of public spending for the public good. It's been that way for a very long time, and in at least some cases, there is merit to caution in such things. Growing up I remember the Republican Party touting this stuff because of fiscal responsibility, and keeping budget can be important. But these days it seems to be a lot less about being fiscally responsible in government spending and a lot more about being petty and vindictive towards anyone who can't simply "pull themselves up by their bootstraps" without government help.

As someone who understands the impact of environment on the trajectory of organisms, human and otherwise, I find this unconscionable. As a government, you provide social services precisely because people do not simply "pull themselves up by their bootstraps" if everything in their surrounding environment is tearing them down into the mud. It's like expecting a kid to do a pull up on a handlebar with one hand tied behind their back and just yelling at them to try harder. No, maybe you get rid of what's binding that one hand behind their back and give them some strength training? You'd think this is common sense, but... well...

 

[1137]

What you need continual reminding of is that's it's both that are out of control by virtue of the extreme strides to the deep end,


The right will be afforded no pass, no more than the left will be. I just don't go off pretending the right can do no wrong like others, who think the same of the left in kind.

Exactly. Do you want your evil blue, or red? Its amazing how this is precisely how I started my OP and it immediately became accusation of me defending the right haha. Hence why there's no need to bother engaging with most of the replies, it's like arguing with an NPC. Pretending either side is flawless while the other is evil gets us nowhere, but people care more about boot licking and social credit irrelevant of their party.

 

[1137]

Yeah, let's totally pretend that the right hasn't ventured over into the extreme and bizarre. What values and principals do you believe they embody?

Dude, the fact that you think criticizing the left means you support the right is everything wrong with politics today. Turn off CNN.

 

[Quintessence]

Can someone remind me which party has conspired for decades - now successfully - to deprive half of the population of basic and fundamental human rights? Anyone? Oh yeah, team red!

Can someone now explain to me how, precisely, I'm supposed to believe a party that is abjectly hostile to my basic fundamental rights as a human being is somehow not an utterly unconscionable evil compared to literally anything else?

For #@^%'s sake 1137.

 

[1137]

Can someone remind me which party has conspired for decades - now successfully - to deprive half of the population of basic and fundamental human rights? Anyone? Oh yeah, team red!

Yes, both.

Can someone now explain to me how, precisely, I'm supposed to believe a party that is abjectly hostile to my basic fundamental rights as a human being is somehow not an utterly unconscionable evil compared to literally anything else?

Correct, both are evil.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Exactly. Do you want your evil blue, or red? Its amazing how this is precisely how I started my OP and it immediately became accusation of me defending the right haha. Hence why there's no need to bother engaging with most of the replies, it's like arguing with an NPC. Pretending either side is flawless while the other is evil gets us nowhere, but people care more about boot licking and social credit irrelevant of their party.

Replacing debate points with reddit troll lingo like NPC does little to engender much optimism for a healthy debate. Let alone strawman like 'if you think the right is tangibly, measurably worse that must mean you think the left is flawless.'

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Yeah ngl, all the horror stories I hear from the US just makes me all the more thankful for our Medicare (healthcare system.)
I mean I have my complaints about it, but like okay. Recently I went to get my ear unblocked. It was just a build up of fluid, nothing serious. Just a bit annoying really.
Sure I waited a few hours in a clinic and sure it was inconvenient. But I didn’t pay have to pay a cent. All of it was covered by the government, because I pay my taxes.

How much would that cost me under the US scheme I have to wonder. I mean I doubt I can afford your insurance there. I can barely afford it here, really. And our private healthcare is apparently but a fraction of what your companies charge. Crazy

I wish I could answer you how much it would cost but the truth of the matter is I don't think many of us would go unless it became painfully infected from the buildup. That US Healthcare is unreasonably expensive for so many means so many wait until a problem becomes critical before getting care. And it's one reason screenable cancers go unchecked here.

 

[Yerda]

Both parties are exactly. The. Same. Thing. Because American politics is all one party: the Anti-Citizen, keep ourselves rich, and stay in power party. Democrats, Republicans, tomatoe tomatoe. They are the same thing.

I think this is broadly true. Both parties take donations from the same organisations, serve mostly the same narrow interests and exist to protect the super rich.

 

[1137]

Idk why but responding on mobile is proving impossible, sorry for less engagement

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Nope.

How many times do I have to keep telling you about the absolute well reported truth of the matter?

Stop trying to deny any and all facts as they legitimately present themselves and pretending it dosent exist as if it changes things.

/thread

You trying to call us least free but we just voted to enshrine abortion as a right in California while those Red states CATO has a hardon for is doing away with abortion, wanting to end gay marriage and even speaking of restricting access to contraception. Red states are banning books, diminished the ability of citizens to create ballot measures (those are a BIG part of California Democracy), and letting the Church dictate healthcare from the pulpit.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

What you need continual reminding of is that's it's both that are out of control by virtue of the extreme strides to the deep end, rather than a return to equilibrium and balance.

The right will be afforded no pass, no more than the left will be. I just don't go off pretending the right can do no wrong like others, who think the same of the left in kind.

You complain about having to pay for a grocery bag at the store, and denounce it as a dictator nannystate even when it's the people who voted to have that.
How can we trust you have a good perspective on any of this?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Whilst I’m happy to sing the praises of universal healthcare all day and night, is it actually a socialist thing?
Like my country is not at all socialist. We still have it.

Like what makes that system socialist in nature, is what I’m asking? Because most capitalist countries have that as a default because it increases productivity in the workforce.

I mean our Healthcare system is both public and private here.
That said, I’ve been told more than once that my country’s systems seems like socialism to American eyes. So maybe I’m an evil red commie without really realising it lol

He argues against it so much he'll even deny France has aspects of socialism worked into and guaranteed by their Constitution.

 

[Twilight Hue]

You complain about having to pay for a grocery bag at the store, and denounce it as a dictator nannystate even when it's the people who voted to have that.
How can we trust you have a good perspective on any of this?

Still perpetually stuck on one track on the bag aspect I see.

You will never change in spite of me telling you countless times , over and over, it's the legal mechanisms of the nanny state, and not the bag's themselves and no, it was not voted over. It was mandated.

Your completely useless for me to try to ever get that point across to you.

 

[Revoltingest]

You're right, but it is socialized vs. privatized.

You still sound like a conservative who
rails against any government service
as "socialism". Why not simply accept
that capitalism is the best system to
provide social services?

 

[Father Heathen]

Dude, the fact that you think criticizing the left means you support the right is everything wrong with politics today. Turn off CNN.

I know you said that the right is garbage, but you also suggested that the left is significantly worse and only a reflection of the right, which seems to suggest only the right has substance.

 

[Revoltingest]

Still perpetually stuck on one track on the bag aspect I see.

You will never change in spite of me telling you countless times , over and over, it's the legal mechanisms of the nanny state, and not the bag's themselves and no, it was not voted over. It was mandated.

Your completely useless for me to try to ever get that point across to you.

If all these lefties are going to pervert definitions
of socialism & capitalism, they I'll provide my own.
Capitalism:
An economic system which allows free economic
association, including raising capital for a business,
hiring workers, buying materials, & selling goods &
services. Owners & workers respect each other,
act fairly, & pursue social & economic success.
Socialism.
An economic system characterized by a command
economy that's doomed to sluggish performance
& social oppression.

 

[Revoltingest]

Where has socialism replaced capitalism,
& worked well?

Still no answer to this question.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Example of last sentence

This one?

Sometimes the sensible and ethical position is squarely on one side only.

Two examples that quickly come to mind are legalization of same-sex marriage and separation of religion and state law: in both cases, there's no "center" or reasonable middle ground. Homosexuals either have equal marriage rights or they don't. Religion either influences state law or it doesn't.

There's no "yes, but..." with certain issues, and I generally view any suggestion of compromise concerning specific issues (such as marriage equality) to merely be a suggestion that benefits an abusive status quo, whether intentionally or not.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Still perpetually stuck on one track on the bag aspect I see.

It's the fact you decry a democratic vote that enacted policy as an authoritarian nanny state.
That pretty much shoots your credibility to ****.