the right religion

[waitasec]

If we walk by the "word of God" it only teaches one way!

It is hard because even the ones who say they are walking that "one" way, are not in "unity" with the scriptures.

that is a big "if", wouldn't you say?

But what if everyone looked to the bible for their answers? The Bible was written by inspired men, who were given the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven so they would be no schism in the body (Church). 1 Corinthians 12; .

and????

you do realize that there are other religions that claim the same thing...

i'll rephrase to clarify
determining the right religion (to be applied to all) is like determining what is the right race (and committing genocide)

it's a silly useless and a potentially dangerous concept to contemplate.

 

[Oryonder]

Can you post the book and passage, and when the book was written? The Bible was written over 2,000 years ago. If one stays with what the bible teaches, he/she can prove their faith, by the scriptures. God has given us all things that pertain to life and Godliness, so would navigation be hard to learn, 2Peter 1:3?

There is nothing in Psalm 8:8 that talks about navigation to begin with.

The Atra Hasis text talks about waters in more depth than your passage and it is 4000 Years old.

The Greek stories of the Gods, odyssey and the iliad, are 3000 years old and they too have navigation of the waters in far more detail your passage.

 

[Oryonder]

What do you call thousands of fulfilled, detailed, verifiable prophecies?

What are you talking about "Thousands" ?

Name one prophecy that is detailed, fulfilled and verifiable.

 

[credance]

I am quite sure you are making the same mistake that most non believers make. You are thinking of changes that Christian people have made in the way they view scripture or doctrine and confusing that with the faith it's self. The Christian religion is not to be thought of as whatever a person claiming to be a Christian does or thinks. It is based on the original revelations of God given almost 2000 years ago and that has never and will never change. If you walk by a car and say it is red, then I walk by and say orange does that mean the car changed colors. It means me and you see different but almost identicle things but the car is the same. I don't give a rip what any particular Christian claims, it is God's revelation that does not change. The modern bible is 95% the same as the original. The other 5% is mostly grammer not meaning. However it does have a few percent of meaningful differences. 2% meaningful inaccuracy is certainly not grounds by which to claim that the religion has changed especially since the modern bibles point out and footnote even this 2%. Even if the bible had significant errors compared with the original that still wouldn't mean that God has changed or the actual religion.

The Spirit of Christ is a living thing. And like all living things it must adapt to changes.
I have no evidence that Jesus Christ ever wrote anything down.
Many years later several writers tried to capture His essence in words. Around 325A.D. a group of powerful men met and decided which of these writing would be canonized.
This was the first power move by the privileged.
They then began to impose laws based on their interputation of Gods will.
The results led to things like the "Inquisition". No one was excluded. Though they put on a face of obedience, they had to know in their hearts that all this had it's roots in evil because the Spirit of Christ teaches forgiveness, tolerance, and understanding.
Some Christians seem to be content to sit and read their scriptures and pass judgement on the rest of the world based on a document of the times that was written 2000 years ago.
The Prince of Darkness seems to be content with this. Many Christians are lukewarm and no threat. There are to many things going on to be worried about what can disrurp the evil that surrounds us.
The Spirit lives on and it is more powerful than ever.
It is so easy to tap into this power in faith and truth.

 

[9Westy9]

I find it hard to believe that dead philisophical horse dust is tasty.

You'd be surprised

Cool, what are you studying?

Computer Science (I wont be doing it next year though)

I do not see the conflict within Christianity, but to play along if justice lands you in hell but forgiveness gets you into heaven which one would you honestly choose.

Forgiveness

I meant that they are immoral at a certain age and considered moral at another.

I drove a land rover when I was about 8. Is that immoral?

Well do that and I will respond, I have been researching this subject so make my day.

So God says slavery is evil for us to do yet he is perfectly allowed to keep slaves.

So you would have jailed Martin Luther, Martin Luther King, Rosa Parks, and Ghandi because they defied the excepted majority agreed upon standard.

I'm not pushing a majority rules I'm saying that everyone has to come to an agreement about what should be legal and illegal. Unlikely to happen though

Whether God is real or not is my very well supported opinion, what that would mean if true is not.

*sigh*

There is no way to esablish the santity of life, concepts of absolute wrong and right (absoluteness is necessary), inalienable rights etc......Like Dawkins said: There is no way in evolution to claim what Hitler did was actually wrong.

I'd rather have a relative morality that's benevolent than an absolute malevolent morality. End of.

 

[Bob L]

There is evidence! You just choose not to believe, but faith comes by hearing the word of God. The problem is it is more easy to say I am atheist, then to look into the perfect will of God for the answers and believe. I live by the word of God and that is where I look for answers and how I live my life.

Atheism is the philosophical position of not accepting the existence of God or gods because of a lack of verifiable evidence of their existence. Since you are making the positive assertion that God does exist, the burden of proof rests with you. Show me evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that God does in fact exist, and I will reconsider my position. It is not a question of belief, it is a question of evidence.

 

[waitasec]

There is evidence!

no there isn't

You just choose not to believe,

have you considered that the bar for which some are to believe may be set to observing objective empirical evidence...?

but if that is what you want to believe in order to make you feel better...

are you not an atheist when it comes to zeus and thor?

 

[Connie Sue]

Christians do not add. Rather it is 'so-called Christians' that add or subtract.
-Mark 7 vs 1-7,13; Matthew 15 v 9

Jesus forewarned MANY would come 'in his name' but prove false.
-Matthew chapter 7

I agree! And should not take away from the scriptures, yet we need to check all passages concerning a given subject to see what all writers are saying about the subject. Like in Luke 16. The story of the Rich man and Lazarus some seem to think when we die we all go to the same place ...a live separated with a great gulf in between the righteous and the unrighteous. If they are a live, what would be the purpose of the resurrection of the dead?

 

[1robin]

What are you talking about "Thousands" ?

Name one prophecy that is detailed, fulfilled and verifiable.

There are over 2300 prophecies in the bible, well over a thousand have been fulfilled. There are books and websites devoted to detailed explenations of them all. There are even 350 plus that concern Christ alone which you seem to claim to believe in. So now I must add Prophecy to Paul, John, orthedox Christianity, respected commentators, and many verses from the old and new testament which you dismiss. What is your deal? You claim to be a Christian and then argue with every single orthedox claim made in Christianity and have defended every counter claim made by other religions? You have the most contradictory actions vs identity I have ever heard of. I will not continue a discussion with you until you suffeciently explain the apparent contradiction between your identity and your actions.

 

[waitasec]

What are you talking about "Thousands" ?

Name one prophecy that is detailed, fulfilled and verifiable.

There are over 2300 prophecies in the bible, well over a thousand have been fulfilled. There are books and websites devoted to detailed explenations of them all. There are even 350 plus that concern Christ alone which you seem to claim to believe in. So now I must add Prophecy to Paul, John, orthedox Christianity, respected commentators, and many verses from the old and new testament which you dismiss. What is your deal? You claim to be a Christian and then argue with every single orthedox claim made in Christianity and have defended every counter claim made by other religions? You have the most contradictory actions vs identity I have ever heard of. I will not continue a discussion with you until you suffeciently explain the apparent contradiction between your identity and your actions.

in other words you can't...

 

[1robin]

You'd be surprised

No I wouldn't, cause horse dust ain't on my menu.

Computer Science (I wont be doing it next year though)

Why not? It is a good field especially if you get a masters in a speacialty.

Forgiveness

That is exactly what God provides so I do not see an issue here.

I drove a land rover when I was about 8. Is that immoral?

If there was the potential to collide with another person then yes. It is easier to see the moral relevance if you consider sex, alcohol, or fire arms.

So God says slavery is evil for us to do yet he is perfectly allowed to keep slaves.

This isn't true but even if it were why would this be a problem? Who are these slaves you refer to? God never said that all slavery was wrong, he allowed a justified more benevolent version of it within Israel. I have recently had to research this subject and here is a very good paper on it. http://christianthinktank.com/qnoslave.html

I'm not pushing a majority rules I'm saying that everyone has to come to an agreement about what should be legal and illegal. Unlikely to happen though

That is the only method that could be used to establish morality without God. It would have to be popular opinion since there is no way to get everyone to agree. That would result in the Ghandis and the Martin Luther Kings being declared immoral. Any system that relies on opinion with no higher standard would be a disaster.

I'd rather have a relative morality that's benevolent than an absolute malevolent morality. End of.

How is that relevant to this discussion?

 

[1robin]

The Spirit of Christ is a living thing. And like all living things it must adapt to changes.
I have no evidence that Jesus Christ ever wrote anything down.
Many years later several writers tried to capture His essence in words. Around 325A.D. a group of powerful men met and decided which of these writing would be canonized.
This was the first power move by the privileged.
They then began to impose laws based on their interputation of Gods will.
The results led to things like the "Inquisition". No one was excluded. Though they put on a face of obedience, they had to know in their hearts that all this had it's roots in evil because the Spirit of Christ teaches forgiveness, tolerance, and understanding.
Some Christians seem to be content to sit and read their scriptures and pass judgement on the rest of the world based on a document of the times that was written 2000 years ago.
The Prince of Darkness seems to be content with this. Many Christians are lukewarm and no threat. There are to many things going on to be worried about what can disrurp the evil that surrounds us.
The Spirit lives on and it is more powerful than ever.
It is so easy to tap into this power in faith and truth.

You briefly mention about 27 concepts here and they are a little smashed together. Could you choose a couple and elaborate and clarify a little more then I will respond. Pick your best three or something. Thanks.

 

[Nakosis]

Christians do not add. Rather it is 'so-called Christians' that add or subtract.
-Mark 7 vs 1-7,13; Matthew 15 v 9

Jesus forewarned MANY would come 'in his name' but prove false.
-Matthew chapter 7

Who gets to make that judgement? You/Me?

 

[Connie Sue]

no there isn't


have you considered that the bar for which some are to believe may be set to observing objective empirical evidence...?

but if that is what you want to believe in order to make you feel better...

are you not an atheist when it comes to zeus and thor?

The "Word of God" is the evidence!!

Studying the word of God and being obedient to it gives one a clear conscince, Titus 1:15. So how do you figure the bar is set too high? We all die unless we live and standing to see the Lord come back and we have lots of proof that people do die, Right?

Then those that do believe in God "Wins" both ways! They have a good conscince while they live this life and when Christ comes back, the second time, they will be like him and live with him forever, 1Thessalonians 4:13-17.

For those of you that claim to be an atheist, must be scared a little not knowing what happens after death, because there is evidence of death and going back to the dust of the ground, Right? Then if that is what you choose to believe keep guessing. How many do you know that have went back to the dust of the ground?

Genesis 3:19 "for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return."

zeus and thor? Sounds like a movie I may have watched!

 

[Nakosis]

Peter is just saying God created all things in the beginning that pertains to the physical needs of man, this was during the creation, and he gave his Son, so all could have eternal life through him. I use the King James Verson (Not the new translations). What do you mean? "but you're trying to pull a prophecy from a place where none exist." Peter is just telling us how to live our lives by what God has given us. (2 Peter 1).

I was referring to using Palms as prophecy. A lot of people get inspired by Palms. I don't know that, that validates the whole of the Bible.

IMO you can't rely on only what you read. It has to have some reality in your life. It has to be testable somehow. If you are happy with your belief great. Not everyone will be and that has to be ok. You go forth, being a deceit person in life, who can complain about that?

Believe in one religion or another, whichever seems suitable to you. I think one has to give everyone else the freedom to do the same without without prejudice.

 

[Nakosis]

zeus and thor? Sounds like a movie I may have watched!

So is the "Ten Commandments", "The Passion". Making a movie about it doesn't necessarily make it all fiction does it?

Don't need proof that people die, it's observable. I know people die.

Atheists I don't know about, but there are other beliefs who think Christianity is wrong about the Bible and God. According to Jews, Christians are following false teachings. Your faith in these teachings may not be pleasing to God.

So you are placing your bet on Christian theology. It's not a sure bet. It's a gamble that Christianity got it right or any other belief.

I suspect most atheists just want a little more certainty before putting their money down.

 

[Connie Sue]

There is nothing in Psalm 8:8 that talks about navigation to begin with.

The Atra Hasis text talks about waters in more depth than your passage and it is 4000 Years old.

The Greek stories of the Gods, odyssey and the iliad, are 3000 years old and they too have navigation of the waters in far more detail your passage.

The last I heard this is 2012!

 

[Twig pentagram]

I am quite sure you are making the same mistake that most non believers make. You are thinking of changes that Christian people have made in the way they view scripture or doctrine and confusing that with the faith it's self. The Christian religion is not to be thought of as whatever a person claiming to be a Christian does or thinks. It is based on the original revelations of God given almost 2000 years ago and that has never and will never change. If you walk by a car and say it is red, then I walk by and say orange does that mean the car changed colors. It means me and you see different but almost identicle things but the car is the same. I don't give a rip what any particular Christian claims, it is God's revelation that does not change. The modern bible is 95% the same as the original. The other 5% is mostly grammer not meaning. However it does have a few percent of meaningful differences. 2% meaningful inaccuracy is certainly not grounds by which to claim that the religion has changed especially since the modern bibles point out and footnote even this 2%. Even if the bible had significant errors compared with the original that still wouldn't mean that God has changed or the actual religion.

A good magickian recognizes an illusion almost everytime. This is an illusion or maybe a delusion.

 

[Connie Sue]

I was referring to using Palms as prophecy. A lot of people get inspired by Palms. I don't know that, that validates the whole of the Bible.

IMO you can't rely on only what you read. It has to have some reality in your life. It has to be testable somehow. If you are happy with your belief great. Not everyone will be and that has to be ok. You go forth, being a deceit person in life, who can complain about that?

Believe in one religion or another, whichever seems suitable to you. I think one has to give everyone else the freedom to do the same without without prejudice.

People can't image relying only on the "Word of God", because they misunderstand it! They want to read a little and then throw it down. To understand the Bible one has to search the scriptures. Only way one can have faith in God's word is by hearing! Roman 10:17.

God gives freedom of choice always did!

 

[1robin]

A good magickian recognizes an illusion almost everytime. This is an illusion or maybe a delusion.

What is a magickian? Just kidding I am the last person who should point out spelling. There is nothing about prophecy that is anyway associated with illusion. There are over 350 that give specific details about one man alone. There are countless books, college level classes, doctorial thesis', and web sites dedicated to detailed analysys of biblical prophecy. They chronical in detail the exact fullfilment of countless biblical prophecies. The majority are of a nature that allows no other explenation than devine authorship. They include: Where Jesus was born, where he would live, where he would be when called by God, that he would be betrayed by a friend, for 30 coins, that a potters field would be bought with the 30 coins, he would ride into jerusalem on a donkey, he would die on a cross, where he would be buried, what people would say and do while he was on the cross, that none of his bones would be broken even though they usually did break their bones (legs), he would be pierced through, he would rise again, what impact his death would have, that he would be silent before his accuser, crown of thorns, spat on, etc......adinfinatum... I don't know how good of a magickin you are but I don't think David Copperfield could pull just those dozen or so off not to mention the other 300 about Christ alone, or the other 1500 plus that accuratelly predicted some of the most unlikely events in history in extraordinary detail decades or centuries before they happened. Any attempt to dismiss prophecy is the result of a desperation. You can find the complete list at these sites.
351 Prophecies Fulfilled in Jesus Christ of Warriors 4 the Lamb
http://www.accordingtothescriptures.org/prophecy/353prophecies.html