The Right to Proselytize?

[rock hop]

Hence the light on factor Darkendless. Not that we were to know, yet I still say they may be expecting guests which would throw a spanner in the works. The occupiers of the household gave what they believed to be a treat. If someone gave me a bag full of humbugs, I wouldn't consider that a treat.

 

[logician]

Evanglism is dangerous in any religion.

 

[darkendless]

Hence the light on factor Darkendless. Not that we were to know, yet I still say they may be expecting guests which would throw a spanner in the works. The occupiers of the household gave what they believed to be a treat. If someone gave me a bag full of humbugs, I wouldn't consider that a treat.

Thats true. But then what about sadistic people like myself who think a treat is a rabbits head? Yum yum.
In general, proselytizing is wrong. Like i said, we should have a right not be harassed. My grandmother who is a devout Christian has to put up signs to get JW's to leave her alone. I need to put a "dont preach to me or ill shoot you" sign on my door so people will leave me alone.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

None of the Catholics who live near me didn't even give out any candy. Their kids don't trick or treat, either.

Odd. Most of my wife's family's Catholic and they have no problem with Hallowe'en whatsoever.

It may be an insult to you and your personal views,but it's target may have been for your child or even you, I guess by throwing it out you may never know the impact or not ,of this tract and it's purpose and intended destination.

Would you think it was appropriate if you found out that a neighbor had handed this pamphlet to your child? How is handing out religious tracts on Hallowe'en any more acceptable?

 

[Nikodemus]

Rojse, I believe if the child could read it, then that makes it more acceptable. Of course reading must mean understand. Now if I am not correct, then simply say so. If one does not recieve a treat, then isn't a trick in order and shouldn't the child decide that for themselves. Or has Halloween moved away from retributionist activities and simply become an Easter parade.

Well, I'll tell you rock hop, most little kids aren't going to be out tricking their neighbors. Not that my 5 year old isn't creative, but I just don't see her getting a bag of dog droppings and lighting it on fire. For the most part, Halloween has become very much less about retribution for not getting a treat. So no one is forced to give anything.

Or maybe Jesus was holding these homeowners at gunpoint and told them to throw in the Halloween stickers with the pamphlets so the neighbors wouldn't become suspicious.

:biglaugh:

Hence the light on factor Darkendless. Not that we were to know, yet I still say they may be expecting guests which would throw a spanner in the works. The occupiers of the household gave what they believed to be a treat. If someone gave me a bag full of humbugs, I wouldn't consider that a treat.

Okay, I wasn't going to address the guest issue, but since you've brought it up several times, I'll tell you that the woman was standing just inside her screen door with a bag of these tracts in her hand. So, no force, no obligation, no interruption.

Like I said in the first post, I realize that in the grand scheme of things this is not a big deal. I think it's wrong, and it does annoy me and make me angry on behalf of my child and other children, but it's not keeping me up nights.

Oh and darkendless, please fix your quotes. I didn't say all that stuff.

 

[Nikodemus]

Odd. Most of my wife's family's Catholic and they have no problem with Hallowe'en whatsoever.


Would you think it was appropriate if you found out that a neighbor had handed this pamphlet to your child? How is handing out religious tracts on Hallowe'en any more acceptable?

Oh that is good. I'll be saving that. Maybe I'll carry it around next year and fight fire with fire. Nah, I won't. But I'd like to.

 

[Wandered Off]

If it were adults on the receiving end, I'm all for letting them hand out anything they want to (that's legal). As others have alluded, this is inappropriate for kids. Is it all that different from, say, dropping a condom in the trick-or-treat bag?

 

[Magic Man]

It is pretty annoying. As you said, it's not that big of a deal, but it's still inconsiderate. It's like somebody cutting you off in traffic. It's not like it ruins your life or anything, but everyone would agree that it's a bad choice by the other driver.

 

[Storm]

The more I think about this, the more I sympathize with Nikodemus' anger.

For those saying it was no big deal, how would you feel if someone were trying to convert YOUR kids, completely ignoring and even undermining YOUR right to raise them as you see fit?

 

[anders]

I'm so happy that I in Sweden don't have to make up an opinion of All Hallows Eve kids' stupidity (for any tricks or treats, I'd tell them that I accept no treats, but for tricks, the garden hose packs some serious cold water this tine of the year), or deciding between two parties only fighting for government representation, or whether to support a comprehensive UHC system or not, or allow home schooling, or abolishing women's righths to decide on their own bodies, or of we should wage wars on our neighbours or on any defenceless parts somewhere on the other side on the globe where's there commodities that we feel we could use them better than the legal owners.

That's enough for my proselytixing now.

 

[ChristineES]

The fact remains that the pamphlet was given out to children. Even if they could read it, would they even understand it? I doubt it. Most kids young enough to trick or treat are still under belief by what their parents believe, it usually isn't until they are older that they begin to question their parents.
If my kids received, say, a Hindu pamphlet or something I may even find it interesting. If my daughter read it, she would show it to me and ask about it. (I don't have to worry too much for my boys, they are both special needs even though both can read- one well the other not too well ), I would tell her that it is another religion/faith, who have a somewhat different idea of God than we do. (I would never tell her it is a false religion or anything since I don't believe that).

So, although it may be annoying, I don't think it will cause any harm.

 

[Storm]

The fact remains that the pamphlet was given out to children. Even if they could read it, would they even understand it? I doubt it. Most kids young enough to trick or treat are still under belief by what their parents believe, it usually isn't until they are older that they begin to question their parents.
If my kids received, say, a Hindu pamphlet or something I may even find it interesting. If my daughter read it, she would show it to me and ask about it. (I don't have to worry too much for my boys, they are both special needs even though both can read- one well the other not too well ), I would tell her that it is another religion/faith, who have a somewhat different idea of God than we do. (I would never tell her it is a false religion or anything since I don't believe that).

So, although it may be annoying, I don't think it will cause any harm.

It's not the success, or lack thereof, it's the intent.

If I started telling your kids that everything you've taught them about Christ was wrong, wouldn't you be upset?

 

[ChristineES]

It's not the success, or lack thereof, it's the intent.

If I started telling your kids that everything you've taught them about Christ was wrong, wouldn't you be upset?

Maybe. My 13 year old son came home from school one day and said he learned about the big bang theory and decided he wanted to be an atheist. I don't recall getting overly upset or anything. My son isn't an atheist- he doesn't know what to believe- same as me when I was 13. He asks me about it sometimes and I answer the best I can- that there are different ideas about the dawn of the universe and humans and so on. I can't tell him what to believe- he has to figure that out on his own.

 

[Storm]

Maybe. My 13 year old son came home from school one day and said he learned about the big bang theory and decided he wanted to be an atheist. I don't recall getting overly upset or anything. My son isn't an atheist- he doesn't know what to believe- same as me when I was 13. He asks me about it sometimes and I answer the best I can- that there are different ideas about the dawn of the universe and humans and so on. I can't tell him what to believe- he has to figure that out on his own.

If my son did that, I'd want to know who the hell put it in his head that he had to be an atheist to believe in science.

 

[ChristineES]

If my son did that, I'd want to know who the hell put it in his head that he had to be an atheist to believe in science.

Heaven knows where he got that idea. He may be special needs but he is pretty smart, too. I certainly didn't tell him that, I love science and religion. It may have been his father or maybe his peers. I certainly don't think it was his teachers. He may have even just come up with it on his own. His Asperger's syndrome seems to make him think a bit differently than the rest of us.

 

[Storm]

Well, I'm not as sweet-natured as you are, Christine. (I'm not being sarcastic, either.) :foryou:

 

[No*s]

So on Friday I took my five year old daughter out trick or treating. While we were out she got something she said was stickers and I didn't think anything of it. It was dark and we were having fun so I didn't pay much attention. Later on, when I was going through her candy, I saw that her stickers were actually a pamphlet promoting Christianity in general and Catholic belief particularly.

This pamphlet was colorful and filled with Halloween stickers and images. It had prayers to say and a number to call to be "saved". The number was to a religious hotline.

So I gave my daughter the stickers (jack-o-lanterns and ghosts) and threw the pamphlet away.

I suppose in the grand scheme of things, it's not that big a deal, but it made me angry. Here we are, just out for a night of fun and someone is trying to convert people.

So what do you think? Do you think actions like that are acceptable? If you do, can you please explain why you think that?

Or are you like me, and think that there is a time and a place and Halloween night isn't it?

Or some third or fourth or fifth option I haven't thought of?

As a matter of protocol, I would agree, it isn't the time. Beyond that, people should be able to do it. After all, it's their candy and money they're giving out, and you're willingly taking people to their house to collect it. If one believes in freedom of speech, then that extends to freedom of speech that is annoying or offensive, not just in its content, but in its timing.

 

[Muffled]

As a matter of protocol, I would agree, it isn't the time. Beyond that, people should be able to do it. After all, it's their candy and money they're giving out, and you're willingly taking people to their house to collect it. If one believes in freedom of speech, then that extends to freedom of speech that is annoying or offensive, not just in its content, but in its timing.

Everyone believes in freedom of speech until it comes to proselytizing. And quite obviously internet websites don't feel any compunction about limiting free speech. I am not muffled for nothing. I am all for proselytizing anywhere at anytime. The attempt is to save a life and that makes it worth the trouble it engenders.

Of all the things people can sell me or give me (as is the case at halloween) I would rather have a message of peace, joy and love than an apple filled with razor blades.

 

[No*s]

Everyone believes in freedom of speech until it comes to proselytizing. And quite obviously internet websites don't feel any compunction about limiting free speech. I am not muffled for nothing. I am all for proselytizing anywhere at anytime. The attempt is to save a life and that makes it worth the trouble it engenders.

Of all the things people can sell me or give me (as is the case at halloween) I would rather have a message of peace, joy and love than an apple filled with razor blades.

I would tend to agree with you. I think the objection here is more one of etiquette than about proselytizing in general. I can certainly agree that it wasn't the time to do it, but it is better than getting a razor blade, and it happens often enough that anyone taking children out should actually expect it.

 

[Magic Man]

Everyone believes in freedom of speech until it comes to proselytizing.

No, I'm all for your right to say what you want. I would, however, appreciate it if you didn't proselytize to me. It's not that there should be a law against proselytizing. It's just that it's not a considerate thing to do in many situations. It's like the Westboro Baptist Church. They demonstrated at several funerals of homosexuals. For awhile, they were not stopped because of their freedom to do so. Just because you have the right, doesn't always mean you should.

And quite obviously internet websites don't feel any compunction about limiting free speech.

There are plenty of places you can proselytize. Places like this that don't allow it, don't allow it because most of the people here don't want to hear it. It creates an atmosphere that is undesirable for these purposes.

I am all for proselytizing anywhere at anytime. The attempt is to save a life and that makes it worth the trouble it engenders.

That's my big problem with Christianity, and, incidentally, many people's problem with it. Please stop trying to save others' spiritual lives. You have your beliefs, fine. Just don't try to force them on me.

Of all the things people can sell me or give me (as is the case at halloween) I would rather have a message of peace, joy and love than an apple filled with razor blades.

Great comparison, because most people do want an apple filled with razor blades. :sarcastic

I would rather just have the peace. Just as I'm not going to change what you believe, you're not going to change what I believe.