The righteous suffer and the wicked prosper.

[Mock Turtle]

Yeah and some atheists do the same in that they overdo reason:
"Definitions
Atheism is the comprehensive world view of persons who are free from theism and have freed themselves of supernatural beliefs altogether. It is predicated on ancient Greek Materialism.

Atheism involves the mental attitude that unreservedly accepts the supremacy of reason and aims at establishing a life-style and ethical outlook verifiable by experience and the scientific method, independent of all arbitrary assumptions of authority and creeds.

Materialism declares that the cosmos is devoid of immanent conscious purpose; that it is governed by its own inherent, immutable, and impersonal laws; that there is no supernatural interference in human life; that humankind, finding the resources within themselves, can and must create their own destiny. It teaches that we must prize our life on earth and strive always to improve it. It holds that human beings are capable of creating a social system based on reason and justice. Materialism’s ‘faith’ is in humankind and their ability to transform the world culture by their own efforts. This is a commitment that is, in its very essence, life-asserting. It considers the struggle for progress as a moral obligation that is impossible without noble ideas that inspire us to bold, creative works. Materialism holds that our potential for good and more fulfilling cultural development is, for all practical purposes, unlimited."

Our Vision

We envision a world in which policies are made using the best evidence we have rather than using religious dogma.

www.atheists.org

If you really want fun, check out Ayn Rand Objectivism.
So yes, some religious people claim in effect objective authority, but that is not limited to religion.

You still haven't presented a good argument as to why religion should be seen as some special form of belief.

 

[Mock Turtle]

I'm sorry I did this.

Now where is my reward?

Try a different religion perhaps?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

You still haven't presented a good argument as to why religion should be seen as some special form of belief.

Well, we have a least one non-religious person on this forum who claim that it is possible to have evidence for all beliefs. Thus religion is speciel in that it has beliefs without evidence.
Now you won't find that person unless you pay attention in what happens in the small exchanges in some thread here and there, but it does happen.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I’m curious as to what it is that makes you say that they don’t realise the dark underlay by which beauty comes about?

Humbly,
Hermit

Because much of what you see isn't there for it's beauty. It's there for survival, reproduction, and the fight to stay alive.

Like this example...

Why are birds so colorful?

Color serves birds in many ways, some of them invisible to humans.

www.startribune.com

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

You didn't use that exact term, but that was the implication.



I was referring to this:



If you use a different term for this idea than what I used ("providence/karma/God’s divine plan/etc."), then we can go with yours.

You have misread me @9-10ths_Penguin.

When I get a moment, I’ll try to explain what I meant in different words.

Humbly,
Hermit

 

[1213]

Many, many people believe that if they are good people, that God will bless and protect them

It is interesting that according to the Bible, only God is good. Therefore, I don't think God's protection is based on the goodness of the people.

Jesus asked him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good, ex-cept one--God.
Luke 18:19

essentially, we cannot depend upon God to protect or bless us...

Your idea may work, if you believe this natural world is all that is. In Biblical point of view it is not so.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Matt. 25:46
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23
The righteous shall inherit the land, And live in it forever.
Ps. 37:29
But the path of the righteous is like the dawning light, That shines more and more until the perfect day. The way of the wicked is like darkness. They don't know what they stumble over.
Prov. 4:18-19
Riches don't profit in the day of wrath, But righteousness delivers from death.
Prov. 11:4
The wicked is brought down in his calamity, But in death, the righteous has a refuge.
Prov. 14:32
Therefore the wicked shall not stand in the judgment, Nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. For Yahweh knows the way of the righteous, But the way of the wicked shall perish.
Ps. 1:5-6
My shield is with God, who saves the upright in heart.
Ps. 7:10
Yahweh's face is against those who do evil, To cut off the memory of them from the earth. The righteous cry, and Yahweh hears, And delivers them out of all their troubles. Yahweh is near to those who have a broken heart, And saves those who have a crushed spirit. Many are the afflictions of the righteous, But Yahweh delivers him out of them all. He protects all of his bones. Not one of them is broken. Evil shall kill the wicked. Those who hate the righteous shall be condemned. Yahweh redeems the soul of his servants. None of those who take refuge in him shall be condemned.
Ps. 34:16-22

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

I was referring to this:

But mankind as a whole, lives a polluted life which affects everybody, everywhere, for long periods of time, with a great deal of physical circumstances and it is entirely true to say that what consequence does not display itself in you, shall absolutely do so in someone,

@9-10ths_Penguin, It was not ”karma” I was speaking of. I’ll try to give you a shortish, mundane example instead:

Our motor cars. We drive them everywhere. We want to drive them. We want to drive them cheaply. They’ve been around for some time and there are places in the world where not driving is a true obstacle because those places have been entirely designed to our use of motor cars.
We know we pollute our air with our motor cars and we try lots of ways (except for not driving, of course) to minimise the damage and health issues that contributes to and that’s great. But the damage persists and together with all other damage that our collective ways of living cause*, people’s health is and will continuously be affected.

*Our polluted drinking water, the pesticides and preservatives in our foods, the chemicals in our cosmetics, the synthetics in our clothes, in our pots and pans, in our carpets, etc., the damp and mould in the walls of our dwellings…

Nothing to do with karma

Humbly,
Hermit

 

[RestlessSoul]

Christianity is pretty clear; Christ’s kingdom, as he explained to Pilate, is not of this world. Satan and Caesar appear to have this world between them, so it should be no surprise that the righteous suffer and the wicked prosper. In the world ye shall have tribulation: But be of good cheer, for I have overcome the world.

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

I don’t believe I said anything about “fundamental rules”, did I?

You didn't use that exact term, but that was the implication.

What sort of “fundamental rules” do you believe me to have been implying through a different term? I genuinely believe you have misunderstood what I was saying.

Humbly,
Hermit

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

Because much of what you see isn't there for it's beauty. It's there for survival, reproduction, and the fight to stay alive.

I agree with that but I still fail to understand how this leads you to think that those who choose to focus on its “beauty” don’t know that’s what they’re doing. That’s not clear to me.

Another aspect that you do not appear to at all take into account there, is the very real, tangible power of perception itself and the possibility that they may [knowingly] be choosing to focus on its “beauty” precisely because it is in doing so that they acquire the mindset to lead fulfilling lives.

Humbly,
Hermit

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

What sort of “fundamental rules” do you believe me to have been implying through a different term? I genuinely believe you have misunderstood what I was saying.

Humbly,
Hermit

Sounds like I did.

I'm not really sure what you meant now. You're saying that what I thought was clear from your earlier post isn't what you meant. Okay, but I'm not sure what other meaning to take from it.

 

[Banach-Tarski Paradox]

You gotta start believing that your morning commute is cute and fun, that every cup of coffee is the best you've ever had, that even the smallest and most mundane things are exciting and new.
You have to, because that's when you start truly living. That's when you look forward to every day.

Que bonita es esta vida - Jorge Celedon

 

[Banach-Tarski Paradox]

You gotta start believing that your morning commute is cute and fun, that every cup of coffee is the best you've ever had, that even the smallest and most mundane things are exciting and new.
You have to, because that's when you start truly living. That's when you look forward to every day.

Que bonita es esta vida - Jorge Celedon

 

[Twilight Hue]

I agree with that but I still fail to understand how this leads you to think that those who choose to focus on its “beauty” don’t know that’s what they’re doing. That’s not clear to me.

Another aspect that you do not appear to at all take into account there, is the very real, tangible power of perception itself and the possibility that they may [knowingly] be choosing to focus on its “beauty” precisely because it is in doing so that they acquire the mindset to lead fulfilling lives.

Humbly,
Hermit

The real beauty is understanding where and why that beauty is even there.

 

[paarsurrey]

The righteous suffer and the wicked prosper.

Not always true, the opposite is also true, righteous also do prosper:

34:16
There was indeed a Sign for Saba’ in their home-land: two gardens on the right hand and on the left: ‘Eat of the provision of your Lord and be grateful to Him. A good land and a Most Forgiving Lord!’
Right?

Regards
_____________________

34:16

لَقَدۡ کَانَ لِسَبَاٍ فِیۡ مَسۡکَنِہِمۡ اٰیَۃٌ ۚ جَنَّتٰنِ عَنۡ یَّمِیۡنٍ وَّشِمَالٍ ۬ؕ کُلُوۡا مِنۡ رِّزۡقِ رَبِّکُمۡ وَاشۡکُرُوۡا لَہٗ ؕ بَلۡدَۃٌ طَیِّبَۃٌ وَّرَبٌّ غَفُوۡر

 

[paarsurrey]

The righteous suffer and the wicked prosper.

Not always true, the opposite is also true, righteous also do prosper:

• 34:16

There was indeed a Sign for Saba’ in their home-land: two gardens on the right hand and on the left: ‘Eat of the provision of your Lord and be grateful to Him. A good land and a Most Forgiving Lord!’
Right?

• 5:67

And if they had observed the Torah and the Gospel and what has been now sent down to them from their Lord, they would, surely, have eaten of good things from above them and from under their feet. Among them are a people who are moderate; but many of them — evil indeed is that which they do.

Right?

Regards
_____________________

34:16
لَقَدۡ کَانَ لِسَبَاٍ فِیۡ مَسۡکَنِہِمۡ اٰیَۃٌ ۚ جَنَّتٰنِ عَنۡ یَّمِیۡنٍ وَّشِمَالٍ ۬ؕ کُلُوۡا مِنۡ رِّزۡقِ رَبِّکُمۡ وَاشۡکُرُوۡا لَہٗ ؕ بَلۡدَۃٌ طَیِّبَۃٌ وَّرَبٌّ غَفُوۡر
5:67
وَلَوۡ اَنَّہُمۡ اَقَامُوا التَّوۡرٰٮۃَ وَالۡاِنۡجِیۡلَ وَمَاۤ اُنۡزِلَ اِلَیۡہِمۡ مِّنۡ رَّبِّہِمۡ لَاَکَلُوۡا مِنۡ فَوۡقِہِمۡ وَمِنۡ تَحۡتِ اَرۡجُلِہِمۡ ؕ مِنۡہُمۡ اُمَّۃٌ مُّقۡتَصِدَۃٌ ؕ وَکَثِیۡرٌ مِّنۡہُمۡ سَآءَ مَا یَعۡمَلُوۡنَ

 

[paarsurrey]

The righteous suffer and the wicked prosper.

Not always true, the opposite is also true, righteous also do prosper:

• 34:16 There was indeed a Sign for Saba’ in their home-land: two gardens on the right hand and on the left: ‘Eat of the provision of your Lord and be grateful to Him. A good land and a Most Forgiving Lord!’ Holy Quran: Read, Listen and Search
• 5:67 And if they had observed the Torah and the Gospel and what has been now sent down to them from their Lord, they would, surely, have eaten of good things from above them and from under their feet. Among them are a people who are moderate; but many of them — evil indeed is that which they do. Holy Quran: Read, Listen and Search

Right?

Regards
_____________________
Original Arabic text from Muhammad's time below:-
34:16
لَقَدۡ کَانَ لِسَبَاٍ فِیۡ مَسۡکَنِہِمۡ اٰیَۃٌ ۚ جَنَّتٰنِ عَنۡ یَّمِیۡنٍ وَّشِمَالٍ ۬ؕ کُلُوۡا مِنۡ رِّزۡقِ رَبِّکُمۡ وَاشۡکُرُوۡا لَہٗ ؕ بَلۡدَۃٌ طَیِّبَۃٌ وَّرَبٌّ غَفُوۡر
5:67
وَلَوۡ اَنَّہُمۡ اَقَامُوا التَّوۡرٰٮۃَ وَالۡاِنۡجِیۡلَ وَمَاۤ اُنۡزِلَ اِلَیۡہِمۡ مِّنۡ رَّبِّہِمۡ لَاَکَلُوۡا مِنۡ فَوۡقِہِمۡ وَمِنۡ تَحۡتِ اَرۡجُلِہِمۡ ؕ مِنۡہُمۡ اُمَّۃٌ مُّقۡتَصِدَۃٌ ؕ وَکَثِیۡرٌ مِّنۡہُمۡ سَآءَ مَا یَعۡمَلُوۡنَ

 

[IndigoChild5559]

The righteous suffer and the wicked prosper.

Not always true, the opposite is also true, righteous also do prosper:

It is not always true, but usually is. If you consider those people who do not inherit money or the benefits of a well off family such as college, you end up with a high number of people who got their money by criminal activity. In fact, I would say that any billionaire, unless they inherited money, got their money by cheating and exploiting others. No one born to a working class family becomes a billionaire by following the rules. The American Dream that anyone can just work hard and move up in class is an illusion. The internet is full of stories by people who are jaded and disillusioned because their lifelong efforts to get ahead accomplished nothing.