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The Rise of the "Alternative Right"

gsa

Well-Known Member
If you have never heard the phrase "alternative right," you are probably not alone. I am not sure that I was aware of this phenomenon before reading more about Donald Trump's online support. But it is an interesting phenomenon. Benjamin Welton of the Weekly Standard offers a taxonomy of the mostly online movement, consisting of "neo-reactionaries, monarchists, nativists, populists, and even a few self-declared fascists."

Their online "activism" (if it can be called that) surfaced in the mainstream earlier this year with the curious and sudden appearance of the term "cuckservative," an epithet that joins the racially laden word "cuckold" with "conservative," describing conservative politicians that more or less accept a "liberal" consensus position on immigration and race relations, specifically. To put it another way, it describes conservative white politicians who have sold out and serve the interests of Jews and non-whites.

The essential premise behind much of the "alternative right" is familiar: Whites constitute a social group with competing interests, multiculturalism is an anti-white conspiracy (Jews are mostly responsible), white liberals are often referred to as "swipples," which is derived from SWPL or "Stuff White People Like." The most vulgar alternative right outlet is probably The Right Stuff Dot Biz, which I will not bother linking to because it is probably worse than Stormfront.

Surveying their site, I note a few things that are interesting about them and seem to set them apart from the would-be thugs that usually populate the darkest corners of the internet. A number of them seem to be educated. Greg Johnson of Counter Currents Publishing has a PhD, but even the hideous hosts of The Right Stuff podcasts also sound like they have completed at least a bachelor's degree. Second, and consistent with this interpretation, they are often interested in a racialized reading of evolutionary psychology and sociobiology, and are almost just as likely to be atheists or neo-pagans as they are to be Christians. Third, they do not have clear consensus positions on the role of Jews or homosexuals, although I would be lying if I said that their opinions were not overwhelmingly negative on both scores. Still, it is worth noting that this diversity of opinion is also true of the European New Right and the ethnic nationalist movements that have been growing in Europe. Which leads to a fourth observation: They appear to be engaged in significant "pan-European" cross-pollinization with similarly minded individuals of European descent. The Right Stuff hosts international shows with hosts and guests from the UK, Scandinavia and central Europe. And these individuals also use the same highly offensive group jargon that litters the white supremacist forums, and leads to the creation of words like "cuckservative."

What best explains the growing interest in these ideologies, and what are the best ways for the mainstream to respond to them?
 

Quetzal

A little to the left and slightly out of focus.
Premium Member
What best explains the growing interest in these ideologies
I think the conservative base in coming to the realization that their death grip on the marginalization of minorities is slipping. The political climate is shifting and they have to shift, too.
 
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gsa

Well-Known Member
I think the conservative base in coming to the realization that their death grip on the marginalization of minorities is slipping. The political climate is shifting and they have to shift, too.

I certainly think that is part of it. Although I don't know that it is the only thing that explains the surge in interest. Overarching fears of finding yourself an ethnic or racial minority might drive more self-conscious racial identity and identity politics, though.
 

Quetzal

A little to the left and slightly out of focus.
Premium Member
I certainly think that is part of it. Although I don't know that it is the only thing that explains the surge in interest. Overarching fears of finding yourself an ethnic or racial minority might drive more self-conscious racial identity and identity politics, though.
Another thing to think about, that I think you touched on. Trump's recent rampage in the media has brought the harsh reality of what their politics stand for and put it front and center. There is no grey area, no misunderstandings. People might be shifting to get away from that.
 
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gsa

Well-Known Member
Another thing to think about, that I think you touched on. Trump's recent rampage in the media has brought the harsh reality of what their politics stand for and put it front and center. There is no grey area, no misunderstandings. People might be shifting to get away from that.

Or shifting towards it...

That's something that is a little frightening about the alternative right podcasts. Listening to these guys, I have a sense of white, middle class familiarity. Their backgrounds suggest that they are being pulled from the same crowd that often finds libertarianism attractive. In fact many of them are former libertarians.
 

Quetzal

A little to the left and slightly out of focus.
Premium Member
Or shifting towards it...
Yep, it can easily cause a split within the conservative base. The jerks have a champion to hold their standard and it is... disappointing.
 
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gsa

Well-Known Member
I had no idea of this.
Which race?
I found no such connotation on the internet.


It's a curable condition?

The racial connotation is I believe a pornographic one. Specifically, a genre of interracial pornography in which a white married woman spurns her white husband for sex with a black man. When you read the materials produced by the altright, it is clear that they believe it has racial connotations.

As for whether libertarianism is curable, I have no idea, but this would be the equivalent of curing a mildly annoying cold with cancer.
 

vaguelyhumanoid

Active Member
I've unfortunately had my share of firsthand experiences with these people - they've wormed their way into a couple websites that I'm a regular on over the past 2 or 3 years. I'd say that 4chan is at the center of the movement - I often compare it (the politics board specifically) to a pipe dumping sewage into the ocean that is the internet. There's definitely a similarity between the alt-right and Trump. Both have this mindset and approach of petty, vindictive ugliness.

Perversely, it does make sense that they often come from right-libertarian backgrounds - there are a lot of right-wing libertarians on the more radical end of it especially who think that anti-discrimination laws violate property rights when applied to private businesses. The "alt-right" also has a lot of bleedthrough with general anti-feminist discourse, which tends to appeal to right-libertarians who reject the concept of "privilege" etc. One thing that's frightening about the movement is that it's mostly people coming from a similar demographic as me - "nerdy" middle class young men from a secular background who read about and discuss political ideas as a hobby of sorts.
 
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Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
This sort of extremism is somewhat predictable. That is, it seems more likely than not to develop once the Right loses all decent standards of intellectual honesty. And the conservative circle jerk media has sure seen to that.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Perversely, it does make sense that they often come from right-libertarian backgrounds - there are a lot of right-wing libertarians on the more radical end of it especially who think that anti-discrimination laws violate property rights when applied to private businesses. The "alt-right" also has a lot of bleedthrough with general anti-feminist discourse, which tends to appeal to right-libertarians who reject the concept of "privilege" etc. One thing that's frightening about the movement is that it's mostly people coming from a similar demographic as me - "nerdy" middle class young men from a secular background who read about and discuss political ideas as a hobby of sorts.
The "right" prefix typically describes those of us who favor liberty both social & economic, ie, what we simply call "libertarian".
(We don't have a wing which favors economic authoritarianism.)
This has nothing to do with being "anti-feminist", unless it's a flavor of feminism which seeks to infringe upon liberty for some.
Yes, that I'd oppose, but because it's the antithesis of equality.

What is "frightening" about being nerdy, middle class, young, men, or secular, & pursuing political discussion?
As for the "alternative right", I don't know who they are yet.
So far, it seems their foes just call them a broad variety of epithets.
Can they be described by a set of beliefs & agendas?
 
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Neo Deist

Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
I think the conservative base in coming to the realization that their death grip on the marginalization of minorities is slipping. The political climate is shifting and they have to shift, too.

Political climates tend to shift over the decades. Abraham Lincoln was a Republican, and the Deep South used to be pure Democrat. My, how the times have changed...
 

vaguelyhumanoid

Active Member
The "right" prefix typically describes those of us who favor liberty both social & economic, ie, what we simply call "libertarian".
(We don't have a wing which favors economic authoritarianism.)
This has nothing to do with being "anti-feminist", unless it's a flavor of feminism which seeks to infringe upon liberty for some.
Yes, that I'd oppose, but because it's the antithesis of equality.

What is "frightening" about being nerdy, middle class, young, men, or secular, & pursuing political discussion?
As for the "alternative right", I don't know who they are yet.
So far, it seems their foes just call them a broad variety of epithets.
Can they be described by a set of beliefs & agendas?

Left-wing libertarians have existed since the 1800s. They don't support "economic authoritarianism", they support decentralized worker ownership. Think co-ops, communes, independently-organized unions etc. And no, libertarian capitalism doesn't have anything to do with feminism one way or another. But I've run across a lot of very anti-feminist libertarian capitalists. I think it's because a market-oriented worldview focused solely on individuals naturally clashes with concepts of systemic privilege and oppression.

The thing that's scary about these guy being nerdy secular middle class young men studying political ideologies as a hobby is that people from my demographic are turning out fascist in droves. Why?
 

Laika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
worse than Stormfront.

how...is that even....possible?????????? :eek:

What best explains the growing interest in these ideologies, and what are the best ways for the mainstream to respond to them?

Handover your freedoms to a handsome judeao-bolshevik cultural marxist. :D

The growth in these ideologies probably has alot to do with the insecurity of the current socio-economic conditions. De-industralisation means that blue collar jobs are under threat as they are outsourced to China, as well as facing the threat posed by an era of renewed mass immigration combined with reduced social mobility, high unemployment and low pay. Globalisation has led to a highly "individualised" culture, but also means a crisis of national and racial identity, as well as challanging traditional conservative and religious values by an empty nihilistic consumerism. From the remanents of the "far left", the cultural changes from the 1960's and 1970's have fundamentally challanged conservative social norms of gender roles, sexual orientation and behaviour, racial boundaries and identity. For many people it feels like thke "great white male" is under assault by "cultural marxism", and that as white men are supposedly the source of western civilisation that can only spell trouble.

The intellectual climate is also generally alot more favourable to the far-right than to the far-left. The Mass Media is controlled by pro-bussiness groups. And I think Academia has become more a centre of the centre-right/far-right under the pressures of privatisation. We have come to believe we are in a "post-historical" 'end of history' and that virtually rules out conceptions of social progress and therefore of utopianism. "post-modernism" is a major helping factor as the west undergoes a serious intellectual crisis as we challange notions of objective truth. Combined with the internet, it means that people can circulate almost any idea and gain a following as it is less a question of "facts" and more of "faith".

The mistake is to think that the mainstream is not infact a contributing factor to this climate. The left has largely surrendered its ideals and been reduced to a permanant protest group, hating capitalism and politics but almost never proposing any alternatives to the status quo (or at least never getting air-time). essentially, they have to re-build from the ground up.

I don't like saying it- but the fascists have won. Hands down. liberals will bend over backwards to defend the far rights "free speech" and generally sympathise with the arguments of a "natural order" of things as based on inequality and as a "realistic" understanding of the world- particuarly if it helps bussiness and defend private property as a "human right". somehow "individual liberty" has been perverted into the defence of corporate tryanny. e.g. we have the right to discriminate on the basis of gender, race, sexual orientation as "freedom of religion" or as part of the right to "private proerty" and "free trade". we have to stop pretending that these are somehow seperate entities and equating communism and fascism because they each represent the an expansion of "big government". Our civil liberties are dependent on the rule of law, and therefore the state. they do not exist in a political vacuum. Liberals have viritually surrendered themselves to Fascism by insisting how they are born free and will always stay that way. we can actually lose our freedoms and we are doing so now. we have become so complacent that Fascism has become almost normal and we have sleep walked into this. we have to take a hard look at ourselves and wonder how far we are responsible for this by our action or even inaction. we have to admit that we are- in our own small way- part of the problem and that wil take us closer to finding a solution (primarily because we admit we can change ourselves and therefore the world around us).

A number of them seem to be educated. Greg Johnson of Counter Currents Publishing has a PhD, but even the hideous hosts of The Right Stuff podcasts also sound like they have completed at least a bachelor's degree. Second, and consistent with this interpretation, they are often interested in a racialized reading of evolutionary psychology and sociobiology, and are almost just as likely to be atheists or neo-pagans as they are to be Christians. Third, they do not have clear consensus positions on the role of Jews or homosexuals, although I would be lying if I said that their opinions were not overwhelmingly negative on both scores. Still, it is worth noting that this diversity of opinion is also true of the European New Right and the ethnic nationalist movements that have been growing in Europe. Which leads to a fourth observation: They appear to be engaged in significant "pan-European" cross-pollinization with similarly minded individuals of European descent.

sounds about right.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Warning.....
This will be long & boring!

Left-wing libertarians have existed since the 1800s. They don't support "economic authoritarianism", they support decentralized worker ownership. Think co-ops, communes, independently-organized unions etc.
First, note that I address N American English.
(It can differ across the Atlantic.)
I & others you call "right" libertarian support the very same thing.
Capitalism is a very flexible system.
Within it, you may form unions, communes, co-ops, trade associations, etc.
So long as the associations are voluntary, it's all "libertarian", without a prefix.

But I see self identified "left" libertarian types often advocate something else, ie, coercing
others into the same system, & preventing alternatives by community or governmental authority.
That's not libertarian.
And no, libertarian capitalism doesn't have anything to do with feminism one way or another. But I've run across a lot of very anti-feminist libertarian capitalists.
On the web & IRL, we run across many people holding contradictory views.
There are many anti-equality feminists, violent peace activists, religious fundamentalist reprobates, etc, etc.
We shouldn't decry any large group by the extreme outlying elements or obsolete historical origins.

Today, "libertarian" is most commonly used to describe advocates of both economic & social liberty.
We see this in major news/opinion sources like NPR, NYT, WaPo, & even TV shows (Parks & Rec).
Usage comports more with the Libertarian Party agenda.....not foreign 19th century definitions.
Consider "Democrat" (the party affiliation). In the 19th century, it was the pro-slavery party.
Should we keep that description? No, of course not.

Many other words no longer mean what they originally did....
Awful - inspiring wonder
Brave - gaudy
Bully - a darling
Egregious - very good
What matters is current common usage.....not historical origins.
I think it's because a market-oriented worldview focused solely on individuals naturally clashes with concepts of systemic privilege and oppression.
Capitalism is all about cooperation, not just competition.
I see this after having worked for & even started companies.
As for privilege & oppression.....those sins are worst in non-capitalistic countries, eg, USSR, PRC, N Korea, Cuba.
The thing that's scary about these guy being nerdy secular middle class young men studying political ideologies as a hobby is that people from my demographic are turning out fascist in droves. Why?
This strikes me as demonizing & stereotyping.
Being young, nerdy, white, male, irreligious.....those shouldn't be seen as traits leading to fascism.
I was all of those once (no longer young), & I'm the opposite of fascism.
 
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vaguelyhumanoid

Active Member
Today, "libertarian" is most commonly used to describe advocates of both economic & social liberty.

Left-libertarians do advocate economic liberty; we just have a different conception of it than you. I personally think capitalism as it stands is an authoritarian system, but this thread isn't the place to debate that and it's a tired subject anyways. I've been trying to stay relatively neutral and acknowledge both types of libertarian.

As for privilege & oppression.....those sins are worst in non-capitalistic countries, eg, USSR, PRC, N Korea, Cuba.

That's left-wing authoritarianism and kinda irrelevant here. My point is that right-wing libertarians tend to believe that privilege & oppression aren't serious issues in the USA.

This strikes me as demonizing & stereotyping.
Being young, nerdy, white, male, irreligious.....those shouldn't be seen as traits leading to fascism.
I was all of those once (no longer young), & I'm the opposite of fascism.

If you think it's "demonizing and stereotyping" you clearly missed the post where I said "my demographic" as well as the separate one where I said "people from a similar demographic as me". None of those things have anything to do with fascism, and that's why it's scary. People who you'd expect to be open-minded are becoming white supremacists and fascists.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
People who you'd expect to be open-minded are becoming white supremacists and fascists.
No libertarian types I know, especially white male ones, are turning fascist.
But Dems & Pubs are falling all over themselves to elect pols who favor......
- Foreign military adventurism
- Increased domestic surveillance
- Increased regulation, even personal
I see a multi-cultural lust for increased governmental authority over us.

As for capitalism being authoritarian, I don't buy it.
We may change jobs, start companies...all without government permission.
What's the alternative.....a government run economy?
Where has that led to greater freedom?
Nowhere I know of.
So I prefer the liberty to freely form economic associations with others.
I can hire people, hire companies, be hired by other companies, buy from whomever I wish.
It's great!
To oppose it is not "libertarian" per modern N Americastanian usage.

Some problems with the prefixes, "left" & "right", when used in N Americastan......
"Right" also means socially conservative, & authoritarian, neither of which applies to any libertarian wing.
"Left" generally means economic authoritarianism, & big government, neither of which are conducive to liberty.

Here's a good chart to see where we libertarians fit in the political spectrum....
nolan_chart.png
 
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Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
I wish I never saw that "the Right Stuff" site. It is much worse than Stormfront. I'd rather talk to some neo-Nazis into Savitri Devi or Miguel Serrano because at least they're able to carry somewhat of a conversation, even if their ideology is vile.

I mean, what happened to the classy, intellectual Fascists and white nationalists? :facepalm:

The funny thing is that the "alt right" is as airheaded, whiny and just plain dumb as the Tumblr SJW types. It's quite funny in that way. Lol.
 
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