The Satanic Principles

[kylixguru]

Plain and simple, indulge experience, rather than wither in the depths of ignorance.

It uses both.

So, you can cop-out and violate another purely for self gratification?

It focuses on that this is your only life.

It presumes that as it only considers the physical/material and the ego? Or, is there more to it?

Of course not, do you?

Nope.

Satan represents the knowledge that we know nothing.

How is this not self-defeating? To me, this appears as hypocrisy to say we know nothing and then to write a bible that others can respect or benefit from. Or, is this his way of saying he is going to bring a fresh new light to mankind so that they will know something?

No, kindness is given to those who deserve it instead of wasting love on ingrates.

How do you reconcile this point with your first point that others can be used for your own self-gratification? Apparently this is simple to you, but I see a significant number of gaps and hypocrisies in these points. Of course I admit I know virtually nothing about any flavor of Satanism. So, rather then brush my questions, please help me see how they are cohesive, if they indeed are such.

For example, because a nice and attractive girl was born and raised in a Christian home means she deserves to be seduced by any means you can employ just because you want to wet your noodle in her? How exactly does she deserve that? Obviously, you aren't being kind to her to use her as a sex object. How does she deserve that?

Obviously.

Ok, very good.

Could you view Satan as God's prosecuting attorney?

The responsable.

I hope you have figured out that I despise ambiguous and self-referential things that don't come down to something practical and observable. This seems entirely incompatible with Socialism and Communism, yet it seems that Satanic forces are what is behind these world trends.

Socialism seems to want to coddle and protect those who are irresponsible and to coddle and protect them such that they can continue their irresponsibility. The only way I can reconcile this is Satan knows eventually those stupid enough to build up such a parasitic societal body shall bring them to their own demise. Destroying all such idiots who enshrine irresponsibility seems to be what his aim is. Although, oddly enough, the first point seems to me to promote irresponsible behaviors so this means Satan is destroying his own body.

So God makes himself a conduit through which the anger and vengeance the lower orders of creation may express itself upon mankind?

That's a narrowminded statement, with no factual basis to prove this stereotype.

It's a simple logical extension of the point he made. This tenet suggest he is acting out some kind of vengeance on behalf of lower orders of creation. Thus, he is taking up the cause of their plights. If this isn't a major tenet of his belief system, that point should be eliminated. What's the wider perspective I'm missing here?

I mean watch gangland, do some research into the Jim Jones episode. All of these people carry the burden of the Cross, yet they assume that "God" is in their favor by making people commit mass suicides and killing people over drug money.

You know those "tough" gangsters that bear the cross that is imbedded in their skin yet they will kill you for your iPod or for even looking at you funny?

Huh? A Satanist looks down on Jim Jones??? Jim Jones got to the place he did because he wanted to gratify himself. He abused religion and deceived a bunch of ignorant people. Tell me how exactly Jim Jones violated point #1?

Please, spare me of your insolence.

How is trying to make cohesive sense of your ideology being insolent?

As if you had not manipulated your way into gaining something you favor.

I view the only real things a person can acquire are those things which need no device or manipulation to acquire. Therefore, I don't waste my time employing efforts to have temporary illegitimate possession of something. I've found that my conscience does a very good job to indicate to me when my efforts shall ultimately be vain. If the path won't get you to real legitimate results, why take even one step on it?

Everything is an "object" for "use", as if the laws of "God" do not restrain man from using his every resource to benefit mankind.

So you can make yourself a non-object but everyone else is still an object? That's not cohesive at all.

Such Christians laws deny man their birth given right, to be.

Seems to me the laws of Christianity are a pretty good balance of all societal factors to promote an ideal where people treat one another with dignity and give the new children being born into the society the best possible opportunities. Why is it you cannot fight against the tenets of the laws and have to bring up total idiots like Jim Jones and gangsters who are totally self-deluded?

I didn't know that it was yours.

It's no business to me, but that doesn't mean others, like Satan, Jim Jones and gangsters cannot come up with creative ways to make it their means of conducting their business of self-gratification.

 

[Jacksnyte]

So, you can cop-out and violate another purely for self gratification?



It presumes that as it only considers the physical/material and the ego? Or, is there more to it?


Nope.


How is this not self-defeating? To me, this appears as hypocrisy to say we know nothing and then to write a bible that others can respect or benefit from. Or, is this his way of saying he is going to bring a fresh new light to mankind so that they will know something?


How do you reconcile this point with your first point that others can be used for your own self-gratification? Apparently this is simple to you, but I see a significant number of gaps and hypocrisies in these points. Of course I admit I know virtually nothing about any flavor of Satanism. So, rather then brush my questions, please help me see how they are cohesive, if they indeed are such.

For example, because a nice and attractive girl was born and raised in a Christian home means she deserves to be seduced by any means you can employ just because you want to wet your noodle in her? How exactly does she deserve that? Obviously, you aren't being kind to her to use her as a sex object. How does she deserve that?


Ok, very good.

Could you view Satan as God's prosecuting attorney?



I hope you have figured out that I despise ambiguous and self-referential things that don't come down to something practical and observable. This seems entirely incompatible with Socialism and Communism, yet it seems that Satanic forces are what is behind these world trends.

Socialism seems to want to coddle and protect those who are irresponsible and to coddle and protect them such that they can continue their irresponsibility. The only way I can reconcile this is Satan knows eventually those stupid enough to build up such a parasitic societal body shall bring them to their own demise. Destroying all such idiots who enshrine irresponsibility seems to be what his aim is. Although, oddly enough, the first point seems to me to promote irresponsible behaviors so this means Satan is destroying his own body.




It's a simple logical extension of the point he made. This tenet suggest he is acting out some kind of vengeance on behalf of lower orders of creation. Thus, he is taking up the cause of their plights. If this isn't a major tenet of his belief system, that point should be eliminated. What's the wider perspective I'm missing here?


Huh? A Satanist looks down on Jim Jones??? Jim Jones got to the place he did because he wanted to gratify himself. He abused religion and deceived a bunch of ignorant people. Tell me how exactly Jim Jones violated point #1?

How is trying to make cohesive sense of your ideology being insolent?


I view the only real things a person can acquire are those things which need no device or manipulation to acquire. Therefore, I don't waste my time employing efforts to have temporary illegitimate possession of something. I've found that my conscience does a very good job to indicate to me when my efforts shall ultimately be vain. If the path won't get you to real legitimate results, why take even one step on it?


So you can make yourself a non-object but everyone else is still an object? That's not cohesive at all.


Seems to me the laws of Christianity are a pretty good balance of all societal factors to promote an ideal where people treat one another with dignity and give the new children being born into the society the best possible opportunities. Why is it you cannot fight against the tenets of the laws and have to bring up total idiots like Jim Jones and gangsters who are totally self-deluded?


It's no business to me, but that doesn't mean others, like Satan, Jim Jones and gangsters cannot come up with creative ways to make it their means of conducting their business of self-gratification.

I think the point you are missing here is that the Satanist seeks gratification for himself, but not necessarily at the expense of others. A Satanist will not attack or undermine someone arbitrarily. It would be more likely that they would attack or undermine someone who has first attacked, or attempted to undermine them in some way. Of course, all this depends primarily on which particular flavor of Satanism they espouse.

 

[kylixguru]

I think the point you are missing here is that the Satanist seeks gratification for himself, but not necessarily at the expense of others. A Satanist will not attack or undermine someone arbitrarily. It would be more likely that they would attack or undermine someone who has first attacked, or attempted to undermine them in some way. Of course, all this depends primarily on which particular flavor of Satanism they espouse.

That's why I am asking these questions. The general perception is a Satanist wouldn't care who they victimized and the more innocent and pure and the more heinous the act the more "brownie points" they would score with their uppers. Is that a fair stereotype? I rather think not, but if not, what is their ethic and how cohesive is it?

 

[Jacksnyte]

That's why I am asking these questions. The general perception is a Satanist wouldn't care who they victimized and the more innocent and pure and the more heinous the act the more "brownie points" they would score with their uppers. Is that a fair stereotype? I rather think not, but if not, what is their ethic and how cohesive is it?

Yes, that stereotype comes from the Satanic Panic of the late 70s and 80s that helped make a lot of people in the fundamentalist Christian scene very rich due to extensive fear-mongering, and mob mentality.
It would take up quite a bit of space here to go into the ethics of Satanism, so I will refer you to this link: http://www.dpjs.co.uk/ethics.html, which is one take on the subject(primarily influenced by LaVey's Church of Satan stance on the whole idea).

 

[kylixguru]

Yes, that stereotype comes from the Satanic Panic of the late 70s and 80s that helped make a lot of people in the fundamentalist Christian scene very rich due to extensive fear-mongering, and mob mentality.
It would take up quite a bit of space here to go into the ethics of Satanism, so I will refer you to this link: http://www.dpjs.co.uk/ethics.html, which is one take on the subject(primarily influenced by LaVey's Church of Satan stance on the whole idea).

Thank you for the link. That was an interesting read. This material confirmed why I have never been intimidated by Luciferians and Satanists. It ultimately paints a very similar image of things to encourage growth, knowledge, skills, patience, discipline, self-mastery, etc. In my mind, not really knowing much, I've just considered them souls who consider themselves adults and who have liberated themselves from societal constraints. While they are self-centered, they are also self-responsible. Thus, I see nothing to fear there any more than to fear some people getting delusional about Christianity and killing in the name of Jesus. The facts remains, no matter what banner a person puts over their head, they may or may not be someone you can trust.

 

[Jacksnyte]

Thank you for the link. That was an interesting read. This material confirmed why I have never been intimidated by Luciferians and Satanists. It ultimately paints a very similar image of things to encourage growth, knowledge, skills, patience, discipline, self-mastery, etc. In my mind, not really knowing much, I've just considered them souls who consider themselves adults and who have liberated themselves from societal constraints. While they are self-centered, they are also self-responsible. Thus, I see nothing to fear there any more than to fear some people getting delusional about Christianity and killing in the name of Jesus. The facts remains, no matter what banner a person puts over their head, they may or may not be someone you can trust.

Very true, hence "Responsibility to the Responsible". Of course, I re-iterate, this is coming only from the most visible form of Satanism. There are a myriad of others!

 

[kylixguru]

Very true, hence "Responsibility to the Responsible". Of course, I re-iterate, this is coming only from the most visible form of Satanism. There are a myriad of others!

Yes, and they are probably looked upon as delusional and acting outside of their own best self-interest. Thus, as unwise and irresponsible Satanists.

I think one of the most interesting books I read in the past that loosened me up with regard to seeing both sides of the apparent duality is the book that came out in the 80's sometime. It was called something like the "Ra Material: The Law of One" or something of that sort. If you have not read it, I think you may find it quite interesting. It looks at both sides of the two paths from a perspective of how they both serve the one-ness that is the truth underneath us all.

 

[Jacksnyte]

Sounds interesting! I may give it a perusal!

Yes, and they are probably looked upon as delusional and acting outside of their own best self-interest. Thus, as unwise and irresponsible Satanists.

I think one of the most interesting books I read in the past that loosened me up with regard to seeing both sides of the apparent duality is the book that came out in the 80's sometime. It was called something like the "Ra Material: The Law of One" or something of that sort. If you have not read it, I think you may find it quite interesting. It looks at both sides of the two paths from a perspective of how they both serve the one-ness that is the truth underneath us all.

 

[Orias]

FONT=Franklin Gothic Medium]I hope you have figured out that I despise ambiguous and self-referential things that don't come down to something practical and observable. This seems entirely incompatible with Socialism and Communism, yet it seems that Satanic forces are what is behind these world trends.[/FONT]

I'm sorry you view it that way. Ambiguous and self-referential things seems to be a thing of spiritual people, not always understood by the "not so spiritual" people.

I view Satanism as it is behind every Aspect, for that's what Opposition is.

FONT=Franklin Gothic Medium]Socialism seems to want to coddle and protect those who are irresponsible and to coddle and protect them such that they can continue their irresponsibility. The only way I can reconcile this is Satan knows eventually those stupid enough to build up such a parasitic societal body shall bring them to their own demise. Destroying all such idiots who enshrine irresponsibility seems to be what his aim is. Although, oddly enough, the first point seems to me to promote irresponsible behaviors so this means Satan is destroying his own body.[/FONT]

Could you clarify more? I'd like to know what basis you have for making these assumptions.

Perhaps this will help, " Pop occultism is fodder for nincompoops, and it's only deserving merit is that it detracts from established religious mores."-Anton LaVey

A lot of kids like to take the name of Satan unto themselves, which makes it seem like a stage that kids go through or some type of rebellious fad, if this is what your getting at I'm going to have to disagree with you. You will find that many Satanists, Luciferians, Setians and LHP followers in general are in fact the most conducive people to society. I'm here for the same simple reason you are, now are you calling me destructive and irresponsible?

FONT=Franklin Gothic Medium][/FONT]
It's a simple logical extension of the point he made. This tenet suggest he is acting out some kind of vengeance on behalf of lower orders of creation. Thus, he is taking up the cause of their plights. If this isn't a major tenet of his belief system, that point should be eliminated. What's the wider perspective I'm missing here?

I'm sorry, I must be misunderstanding what your getting at here.

I think you may have misquoted by the way as well.

FONT=Franklin Gothic Medium][/FONT]Huh? A Satanist looks down on Jim Jones??? Jim Jones got to the place he did because he wanted to gratify himself. He abused religion and deceived a bunch of ignorant people. Tell me how exactly Jim Jones violated point #1?

I'm not looking down on him, it just isn't something I would do. I was just referencing it when you asked about Satan keeping man primitive. I simply replied by saying the Christian God keeps man primitive. He never violated anything, that was a presumption on your part.

FONT=Franklin Gothic Medium]How is trying to make cohesive sense of your ideology being insolent?[/FONT]

I apologize for my intolerance. I realize I can get a little hot headed sometimes

FONT=Franklin Gothic Medium]I view the only real things a person can acquire are those things which need no device or manipulation to acquire. Therefore, I don't waste my time employing efforts to have temporary illegitimate possession of something. I've found that my conscience does a very good job to indicate to me when my efforts shall ultimately be vain. If the path won't get you to real legitimate results, why take even one step on it?[/FONT]

What "real" legitimate results could you possibly be seeking from spirituality? All perception is man fabricated.

I don't see how you can say that and then try and understand Satanism in that way, to truly learn you must let go of all prejudices and preconceptions. I've learned a whole ton of stuff here about belief, and I didn't learn it by throwing around accusations (though I know I have in the past and it still slips sometimes).

FONT=Franklin Gothic Medium]So you can make yourself a non-object but everyone else is still an object? That's not cohesive at all.[/FONT]

No, no, that's not what I'm saying at all. In fact, I view myself as much as an object as anything else. I can and have been used to gain from as well.

FONT=Franklin Gothic Medium]Seems to me the laws of Christianity are a pretty good balance of all societal factors to promote an ideal where people treat one another with dignity and give the new children being born into the society the best possible opportunities. Why is it you cannot fight against the tenets of the laws and have to bring up total idiots like Jim Jones and gangsters who are totally self-deluded?[/FONT]

First of all, I agree with you that Christian "laws" are a pretty decent balance on all societal factors, it is the mass and delusional sense of life that I disagree with. Second of all, what makes you think that anyone is any less delusional? Self preservation is the highest law, by any means necessary, I do not feel the need to fill moral obligation because it is not in my belief to narrow life down to "right" and "wrong", just things that I would and wouldn't do, that would affect me in positive or negative ways. By this means we seek comfort, and belief being the basis for that, any belief.

COLOR=darkred][/COLOR]It's no business to me, but that doesn't mean others, like Satan, Jim Jones and gangsters cannot come up with creative ways to make it their means of conducting their business of self-gratification.

I apologize for any inconvenience, I may have been less tolerant during school hours. The point is, I tend to view things from a sociological and psychological viewpoint, which often conflicts with my personal views. Here is a link that may be of some help to you, Official Church of Satan Website

And so you know, the Baphomet is a highly regarded symbol in the LHP, and consists of combined words that together means, "absorption of knowledge". I think Satanism tends to stray man far away from his "primitive" self.

 

[Orias]

So, you can cop-out and violate another purely for self gratification?

What makes you think that gaining from others is purely a violation of their conscience? In some cases, other gain as well. I can see why you think that way though, "manipulate" just sounds like a term used to describe deviance. However, everything that could possibly be affected by anything, is. Let's just view it that way for now.

FONT=Franklin Gothic Medium]It presumes that as it only considers the physical/material and the ego? Or, is there more to it?[/FONT]

Not necessarily, Satanists are a very spiritual group of people, both Modern and Theists a like. It goes to a realm beyond physical and material, it is a connection with what is, perhaps you could call it Xeper . Most Satanists are in fact humanists as well, but a large veil seems to have been placed over what Satanism actually is. People like to fabricate our ideas and make it seem like we hold a different meaning to our creeds. Let's just call it conspiracy. The Nine Satanic Statements, the Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth, the Nine Satanic Sins, along with Pentagonial Reivisionism seems pretty common sense to us. We don't apply all things literally and able apply our gained intelligence when necessary. I'd like to think of ourselves as a "modest" folk, only willing to act when most necessary.

FONT=Franklin Gothic Medium]How is this not self-defeating? To me, this appears as hypocrisy to say we know nothing and then to write a bible that others can respect or benefit from. Or, is this his way of saying he is going to bring a fresh new light to mankind so that they will know something?[/FONT]

Well tell me what you think makes it hypocritical, and I would be happy to fully answer your question.

FONT=Franklin Gothic Medium]How do you reconcile this point with your first point that others can be used for your own self-gratification? Apparently this is simple to you, but I see a significant number of gaps and hypocrisies in these points. Of course I admit I know virtually nothing about any flavor of Satanism. So, rather then brush my questions, please help me see how they are cohesive, if they indeed are such.[/FONT]

It's a certain balance of when knowing to and not act. Perhaps the Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth could help you understand more, if not I could try and elaborate further.

1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.

2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.

3. When in another’s lair, show him respect or else do not go there.

4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.

5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.

6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.

7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.

8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.

9. Do not harm little children.

10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.

11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him./COLOR]

For example, because a nice and attractive girl was born and raised in a Christian home means she deserves to be seduced by any means you can employ just because you want to wet your noodle in her? How exactly does she deserve that? Obviously, you aren't being kind to her to use her as a sex object. How does she deserve that?[/QUOTE]

Nice and attractive girls, or anyone else for a fact, doesn't deserve anything unless they have committed a crime or offended anyone of the Opposition. It's common knowledge that not all people learn from making a mistake once, and is rather sad, not that it relates to anything anyway...

FONT=Franklin Gothic Medium]Ok, very good.[/FONT]

FONT=Franklin Gothic Medium]Could you view Satan as God's prosecuting attorney?[/FONT]

Of course, they are two sides of a coin.

 

[kylixguru]

Thanks for the comments Orias.
I see no need to labor on things further.
You gave sensible replies that cleared up my questions.

Take care!

 

[drsatish]

Dissent can also be used to describe what you are getting at. It's a mixture.



What does this have to do with reality?



Of course not, Anton LaVey is not a theist in the supernatural.

In other words, it's just a human fabrication, have you read the Devil's Notebook?




I disagree.

Religion becomes meaningless when it has been proved wrong, not when some thing that they created to play the bad guy disappears from the scene.

Kindly explain what happens
when
the 'bad things' or the 'Personification of Bad Things'
are
REMOVED
from the Following:
Major religious groups - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sat the Sat..anitsh.