The Scourge of Christianity and the Need for Christian Humility

[angellous_evangellous]

Based on the Bible or Quran it isn't a delusion, it is based on instruction.... Both of these books say God gave victory to those who followed him in battle. Judaism without Yeshua is a war like religion, with the Torah insisting 'God is a man of war'.

My take on the four horse men, is the white horse is the fake white version of jesus, that went to the American Indians and left blood shed on the land, went to the black skins and stole their wealth from them (unbalanced scales), and the green/pale skins is the famine/pestilence caused due to the death of animals.

Yet lets not blame Christianity completely; the Roman Empire still exists under its new name, and it's still in the same place.

I agree - sort of. We know that Christianity has a somewhat dubious and tenuous relationship with the Old Testament - you should have used the term Hebrew Bible and Quran rather than simply 'the Bible.'

Nevertheless, I don't think that you've challenged my point (perhaps you didn't intend to): Christianity has been used to motivate people to kill, and yes, that includes the Old Testament, and it's a part of the religion. That's the point.

However, I am coming from the perspective that Jesus taught pacifism, one of his many departures (or reinterpretations) from Judaism.

That other religions / institutions are exploited for the same purposes is completely irrelevant to my argument, because I am saying that Christianity is no different from other religions, and therefore Christians should not arrogantly claim that Christianity is in any way superior.... in fact, in my opinion, Christianity can be more dangerous.

 

[Aupmanyav]

However, I am coming from the perspective that Jesus taught pacifism, one of his many departures (or reinterpretations) from Judaism.

Since I came to know today that you got five million frubals, I was interested in an interaction with you. So I searched and that showed this, perhaps the last post you made (people say that you have already begun your journey towards heaven).

But about the statement, Jesus was not much of a pacifist. The fact is that with just 12 disciples he could not have challenged either the Jewish king or the Romans. Though he was hopeful that he will garner enough support and that his kingdom will come. He was sorely disappointed when Bethsaida, Karraza and Kfernahum would not support him. Mohammad had power and he married nine (not sure) times, Jesus perhaps did not marry even once.

 

[JFish123]

I agree - sort of. We know that Christianity has a somewhat dubious and tenuous relationship with the Old Testament - you should have used the term Hebrew Bible and Quran rather than simply 'the Bible.'

Nevertheless, I don't think that you've challenged my point (perhaps you didn't intend to): Christianity has been used to motivate people to kill, and yes, that includes the Old Testament, and it's a part of the religion. That's the point.

However, I am coming from the perspective that Jesus taught pacifism, one of his many departures (or reinterpretations) from Judaism.

That other religions / institutions are exploited for the same purposes is completely irrelevant to my argument, because I am saying that Christianity is no different from other religions, and therefore Christians should not arrogantly claim that Christianity is in any way superior.... in fact, in my opinion, Christianity can be more dangerous.

Atheists and secular humanists consistently make the claim that religion is the #1 cause of violence and war throughout the history of mankind.
A source of truth on the matter is Philip and Axelrod’s three-volume Encyclopedia of Wars, which chronicles some 1,763 wars that have been waged over the course of human history. Of those wars, the authors categorize 123 as being religious in nature,2 which is an astonishingly low 6.98% of all wars. However, when one subtracts out those waged in the name of Islam (66), the percentage is cut by more than half to 3.23%.

That means that all faiths combined – minus Islam – have caused less than 4% of all of humanity’s wars and violent conflicts. Further, they played no motivating role in the major wars that have resulted in the most loss of life.
The truth is, non-religious motivations and naturalistic philosophies bear the blame for nearly all of humankind’s wars. Lives lost during religious conflict pales in comparison to those experienced during the regimes who wanted nothing to do with the idea of God – something showcased in R. J. Rummel’s work Lethal Politics and Death by Government:
Non-Religious Dictator Lives Lost
Joseph Stalin - 42,672,000
Mao Zedong - 37,828,000
Adolf Hitler - 20,946,000
Chiang Kai-shek - 10,214,000
Vladimir Lenin - 4,017,000
Hideki Tojo - 3,990,000
Pol Pot - 2,397,0003
In the end, the evidence shows that the atheists are quite wrong about the wars they claim to so desperately despise. Sin is the #1 cause of war and violence, not religion, and certainly not Christianity.
I'm glad I could clear this up for you

 

[Revoltingest]

Atheists and secular humanists consistently make the claim that religion is the #1 cause of violence and war throughout the history of mankind.
A source of truth on the matter is Philip and Axelrod’s three-volume Encyclopedia of Wars, which chronicles some 1,763 wars that have been waged over the course of human history. Of those wars, the authors categorize 123 as being religious in nature,2 which is an astonishingly low 6.98% of all wars. However, when one subtracts out those waged in the name of Islam (66), the percentage is cut by more than half to 3.23%.
View attachment 10237
View attachment 10238
That means that all faiths combined – minus Islam – have caused less than 4% of all of humanity’s wars and violent conflicts. Further, they played no motivating role in the major wars that have resulted in the most loss of life.
The truth is, non-religious motivations and naturalistic philosophies bear the blame for nearly all of humankind’s wars. Lives lost during religious conflict pales in comparison to those experienced during the regimes who wanted nothing to do with the idea of God – something showcased in R. J. Rummel’s work Lethal Politics and Death by Government:
Non-Religious Dictator Lives Lost
Joseph Stalin - 42,672,000
Mao Zedong - 37,828,000
Adolf Hitler - 20,946,000
Chiang Kai-shek - 10,214,000
Vladimir Lenin - 4,017,000
Hideki Tojo - 3,990,000
Pol Pot - 2,397,0003
In the end, the evidence shows that the atheists are quite wrong about the wars they claim to so desperately despise. Sin is the #1 cause of war and violence, not religion, and certainly not Christianity.
I'm glad I could clear this up for you

Someone is painting atheists with a very broad brush.
It could be that someone notices those making such claims, but not the others.
Anyway, the involvement of religion is much greater if one considers contributing factors & some corrections....
- Hitler was a Xian on a rather strange occultish crusade, giving us WW2.
- The entire Mid East debacle is an Abrahamic cluster****.
- The Viet Nam war was waged against "godless communists".

 

[JFish123]

Someone is painting atheists with a very broad brush.
It could be that someone notices those making such claims, but not the others.
Anyway, the involvement of religion is much greater if one considers contributing factors & some corrections....
- Hitler was a Xian on a rather strange occultish crusade, giving us WW2.
- The entire Mid East debacle is an Abrahamic cluster****.
- The Viet Nam war was waged against "godless communists".

You sure you want to go with Hitler being a Christian?
Hitler’s Table Talk is a compilation of sayings by Hitler in private conversations that were recorded by other Nazis. It is a good source for what Hitler really thought.
“…the only way of getting rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little.” –Hitler’s Table Talk, pg 61
“As far as we are concerned, we’ve succeeded in chasing the Jews from our midst and excluding Christianity from our political life.” –Hitler’s Table Talk, pg 394
“There is something very unhealthy about Christianity.” –Hitler’s Table Talk, pg 418
“When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let’s be the only people who are immunised against the disease.” –Hitler’s Table Talk, pg 145
“Christianity is the worst of the regressions that mankind can ever have undergone, and it’s the Jew who, thanks to this diabolic invention, has thrown him back fifteen centuries.” –Hitler’s Table Talk, pg 322
Also, the Middle East has EVERYTHING to do with MUSLIMS and little to NOTHING to do with Christianity.

 

[Revoltingest]

You sure you want to go with Hitler being a Christian?

Positive.
We've had many such discussions of it here on RF.
Hitler was definitely a believer.

Hitler’s Table Talk is a compilation of sayings by Hitler in private conversations that were recorded by other Nazis. It is a good source for what Hitler really thought.
“…the only way of getting rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little.” –Hitler’s Table Talk, pg 61
“As far as we are concerned, we’ve succeeded in chasing the Jews from our midst and excluding Christianity from our political life.” –Hitler’s Table Talk, pg 394
“There is something very unhealthy about Christianity.” –Hitler’s Table Talk, pg 418
“When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let’s be the only people who are immunised against the disease.” –Hitler’s Table Talk, pg 145
“Christianity is the worst of the regressions that mankind can ever have undergone, and it’s the Jew who, thanks to this diabolic invention, has thrown him back fifteen centuries.” –Hitler’s Table Talk, pg 322
Also, the Middle East has EVERYTHING to do with MUSLIMS and little to NOTHING to do with Christianity.

His criticism of Xianity was against how the modern interpretation didn't live up to his standards.
This is not disbelief in the religion.
So when he proffers "Gott mit uns", tis the Xian "Gott" he addresses.

But where you go wrong is thinking that we heathens all believe that religion caused his deadly agenda.
I blame Hitler himself....a vicious ambitious violent psychopath.
I don't judge other Xians by him.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I'm glad I could clear this up for you

Thanks for nothing.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Positive.
His criticism of Xianity was against how the modern interpretation didn't live up to his standards.
This is not disbelief in the religion.
So when he proffers "Gott mit uns", tis the Xian "Gott" he addresses.

If you weren't so ugly, I'd kiss you.

 

[Revoltingest]

If you weren't so ugly, I'd kiss you.

Would lipstick & some cologne help?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

We think religion should be 'true' and, in doing so, find ourselves expecting far too much from it. What if, instead, we were to think of it the way we think of language.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

We think religion should be 'true' and, in doing so, find ourselves expecting far too much from it. What if, instead, we were to think of it the way we think of language.

I've thought of it as art or music. Religious expression at its best is a human interpretation of what we experience - and some of us experience it more deeply than others - our 'artists.' Putting it into formula has been incredibly destructive for the experience - and that is something that true artists rarely do, at least on a level that is attractive to a significant group of people.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I've thought of it as art or music.

Religion, language, art, music -- all capable of reflecting/enabling the very worst of humankind.

Still, I think you'd agree that we'd be poorer without them.​

 

[leibowde84]

Christianity is guilty for many sins in its 2,000 year history, but I want to meditate on one in particular, that should rank among its unquestionably evil acts: murder.

Historically, Christianity has been the religion of death rather than life: there must be something inherently inhumane and dysfunctional about a religion that can be exploited for evil in every generation and almost every form.

In the West, Christians have murdered each other en masse, and Christian leaders (both religious, like Popes and pastors) have used Christianity as an argument for war / motivation to kill and die in wars. This is not an accident of the majority of the people being Christian, because every aspect of Western life has been Christianized - the conquering of the indigenous peoples, industrialism, capitalism, nationalism, and terrorism.

In fact, I would venture to predict that as long as a majority of Americans are Christian, the world is not safe from aggressive American wars. As Christians, the capital ventures of America that rely on the oppression of other countries is considered a divine right, and soldiers do good when they kill anyone who threatens it.

Jesus isn't the answer, Christian, Jesus is the problem. A significant problem that creates very real threats for the poor, innocent, and weak.

Before you tout Jesus as an answer to anything, consider how much damage Christians have done (and this is not a comprehensive list):

- Christians slaughtered each other in Europe for hundreds of years (Catholics and Protestants)
- Christians perpetrated genocides in the New World to secure its resources (both in North and South America)
- Christians slaughtered each other to secure that wealth (the Revolutionary and Pre-Revolutionary Wars)
- Christians enslaved African Americans and wrote the Constitution in a way that purposefully ensured that slavery would last indefinitely in the USA
- Christians slaughtered each other by the thousands to preserve slavery
- Christians slaughtered each other on a then unprecedented scale in WWI
- Christians developed and supported the Nazi final solution
- Christians killed other Christians in WWII
- A Christian President is the only person who dropped an atomic bomb
- A Christian President illegally started two wars of aggression, costing more than a million lives, fought by a largely Christian military, and openly supported by evangelicals

You are recruiting other people into this bloody legacy.

So at least show some humility.

I was following you until this:

"In fact, I would venture to predict that as long as a majority of Americans are Christian, the world is not safe from aggressive American wars. As Christians, the capital ventures of America that rely on the oppression of other countries is considered a divine right, and soldiers do good when they kill anyone who threatens it."

Haven't all Abraham religions been guilty of behavior like this? And, from what I understand about our current military endeavors, it is more about money and control over resources. What does that have to do with Christianity?

The US is becoming more and more secular by the day. I don't this should be so readily ignored.

 

[rusra02]

Jesus Christ condemned the very things done in his name by those falsely claiming to be his followers. His life was spent tirelessly helping others physically and spiritually. Those who truly follow the Christ have renounced war and violence. They are united in a global brotherhood that transcends national, racial, and tribal barriers. Their days are spent in helping others come to know God and Christ, because they realize what Jesus said is true; "This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ." (John 17:3)
As to false Christians, Jesus prophesied he would say to them; "get away from me." Matthew 7:21-23 says; “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’"

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Jesus Christ condemned the very things done in his name by those falsely claiming to be his followers. His life was spent tirelessly helping others physically and spiritually. Those who truly follow the Christ have renounced war and violence. They are united in a global brotherhood that transcends national, racial, and tribal barriers. Their days are spent in helping others come to know God and Christ, because they realize what Jesus said is true; "This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ." (John 17:3)
As to false Christians, Jesus prophesied he would say to them; "get away from me." Matthew 7:21-23 says; “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’"

This is compeltely irelevant.

 

[Revoltingest]

I did run across this news item which shows that some violence exists solely because of religion....
Indian Woman Beheaded For 'Witchcraft'
I don't generalize too much from it though.

 

[rusra02]

This is compeltely irelevant.

I think not irrelevant to someone interested in the truth.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I think not irrelevant to someone interested in the truth.

Breathtaking arrogance.