The Second Death of Jesus?

[d3vaLL]

Jesus was crucified, dead and buried. On the third day, he rose from the dead and ascended into heaven...

What are the physical functions of this process?
(There are varying levels of technicality that need to be addressed for the best responses so):

1. When Jesus "rose" from the "dead," does that mean he was revived back to life again? In other words, was he physically alive just like any other human post his "rising"?

2. During the three days of his (1st) death, do you suspect he was in heaven, or conscious in another form? Or was his body dormant and spirit dormant till the resurrection?

3. "Do not touch me..." Is this referring to a harmful physical reaction if someone touched Jesus after being dead? What do you suppose the warning signified? Was a process happening currently or had he not yet chosen to ascend?

4. If you believe the above appears to be reference to a physical/spiritual process, does this mean that Jesus was "ascending" to heaven without death?

5. Is it so that Jesus had to physically die twice or did the particles of his body cease to exist in this universe?

6. Could the above be evidence of a not only spiritual, but physical heaven? Does this universe contain heaven?

Looking forward to perspectives!

 

[3.14]

1. When Jesus "rose" from the "dead," does that mean he was revived back to life again? In other words, was he physically alive just like any other human post his "rising"?

1 nah he probaly faked his dead instaed of realy dieing

2. During the three days of his (1st) death, do you suspect he was in heaven, or conscious in another form? Or was his body dormant and spirit dormant till the resurrection?

2 geuss if he faked his dead he was just in suspended animantion

3. "Do not touch me..." Is this referring to a harmful physical reaction if someone touched Jesus after being dead? What do you suppose the warning signified? Was a process happening currently or had he not yet chosen to ascend?

3 maby his fysiek became frail after spending 3 days without food

4. If you believe the above appears to be reference to a physical/spiritual process, does this mean that Jesus was "ascending" to heaven without death?

4 no he died on way to heaven

5. Is it so that Jesus had to physically die twice or did the particles of his body cease to exist in this universe?

5 nah his particles just altered shape

6. Could the above be evidence of a not only spiritual, but physical heaven? Does this universe contain heaven?

6 no it can't be evidence, and can't be sure

 

[fEtish]

Eric, its Zack and I think for my first post I'll take a crack at this.

1. When Jesus "rose" from the "dead," does that mean he was revived back to life again? In other words, was he physically alive just like any other human post his "rising"?
I think maybe he never came back to life at all. His body was gone, but his spirit rose and he took on a physical form but it wasn't his original body, or a representation of himself. Like in The Matrix "residual self image".


2. During the three days of his (1st) death, do you suspect he was in heaven, or conscious in another form? Or was his body dormant and spirit dormant till the resurrection?
I believe his body was gone but his spirit were dormant during his "death", but perhaps he had some kind of spiritual epiphany when he was "dead", which may have something to do with his ascension to Heaven.

3. "Do not touch me..." Is this referring to a harmful physical reaction if someone touched Jesus after being dead? What do you suppose the warning signified? Was a process happening currently or had he not yet chosen to ascend?
I'm not sure, but maybe it is referring to the fact that Jesus was no longer of the "physical world", I don't think it had anything to do with any physical harm being done to the person who touched him. Perhaps the statement was supposed to be taken figuratively, for example. "Do not touch me..for I am not of this world anymore. I am not a human anymore." Also, when I say he was no longer a part of the physical world, I don't mean he was like a "ghost" or anything like that. To him, he was no longer part of the physical world, but a/the spiritual one.

4. If you believe the above appears to be reference to a physical/spiritual process, does this mean that Jesus was "ascending" to heaven without death?
No, I think his body was dead but his spirit lived on and took a physical form, which then ascended to heaven.

5. Is it so that Jesus had to physically die twice or did the particles of his body cease to exist in this universe?
I think perhaps his body never existed at all when he rose from the dead (like I mentioned in my response to Question 1., and when he came back to life, his physical appearance was just a physical representation of himself.
6. Could the above be evidence of a not only spiritual, but physical heaven? Does this universe contain heaven?
Based upon what I've been saying I don't think a physical heaven exists, as the body and mind are vessels for your soul, perhaps the purpose of which is to be able to interact with the physical world. The body cannot reach heaven as the body is not a prominently spirtual entity, but a medium for spirituality. As for you second question, If the spirtual plain exists in some way in this universe whether or not you can physically perceive it, I think its definitely possible, even probable, that heaven does too.

I hope my response gives you something to think about. Later mang.

 

[Dunemeister]

Jesus was crucified, dead and buried. On the third day, he rose from the dead and ascended into heaven...

What are the physical functions of this process?
(There are varying levels of technicality that need to be addressed for the best responses so):

1. When Jesus "rose" from the "dead," does that mean he was revived back to life again? In other words, was he physically alive just like any other human post his "rising"?

His resurrection body was physical, but not quite in the way you and I think of it. His resurrection body transcended physicality. Thus, he could eat, be touched, and so forth, but he could also appear in the middle of a locked room, and then disappear without a trace. Kinda X-files, isn't it?

2. During the three days of his (1st) death, do you suspect he was in heaven, or conscious in another form? Or was his body dormant and spirit dormant till the resurrection?

As he said to the thief on the cross, "Today, you will be with me in Paradise." To a first-century Jew, Paradise was a conscious blissful state of the soul while it awaited resurrection. In the tomb, the body was subject to all the normal processes of dead folk. In the spirit, Jesus could (and did) enjoy the company of God.

3. "Do not touch me..." Is this referring to a harmful physical reaction if someone touched Jesus after being dead? What do you suppose the warning signified? Was a process happening currently or had he not yet chosen to ascend?

Good question. I hadn't thought of it. The text says "for it is not yet my time." So there seems something mystical about it. I could do some research this weekend and see what I can come up with (warning: my library is limited).

4. If you believe the above appears to be reference to a physical/spiritual process, does this mean that Jesus was "ascending" to heaven without death?

He wasn't ascending at the time he was in the garden with Mary. It's also worth pointing out that "ascend" speaks of the glorification of Jesus such that he now sits at the right hand of God. That's different from going to Paradise, which is a disembodied state. However, I'm not sure I'm addressing your point, so if I'm not, please follow up.

5. Is it so that Jesus had to physically die twice or did the particles of his body cease to exist in this universe?

Nope. He died once, and he'll never die again.

6. Could the above be evidence of a not only spiritual, but physical heaven? Does this universe contain heaven?

"Heaven" is not a "place" where we "go" after we die. You might think of heaven as the realm of God, and creation as the realm of we creaturely types. Ultimately, heaven and earth will merge, and both will complete the other. That's the point of the heavenly vision of Revelation where the New Jerusalem descends to the earth. Thus heaven and earth will merge. The earth will remain physical, but it will be freed from the decay and death that currently bedevils it.

This universe doesn't "contain" heaven. Rather, this universe and heaven are in dynamic tension and interpenetration.[/quote]

 

[Bishadi]

Jesus was crucified, dead and buried. On the third day, he rose from the dead and ascended into heaven...

What are the physical functions of this process?
(There are varying levels of technicality that need to be addressed for the best responses so):

1. When Jesus "rose" from the "dead," does that mean he was revived back to life again? In other words, was he physically alive just like any other human post his "rising"?

2k years ago, if you partied to hard and 'passed out'... you could have been considered ded

2. During the three days of his (1st) death, do you suspect he was in heaven, or conscious in another form? Or was his body dormant and spirit dormant till the resurrection?

hang over... or simply.... put a man in the hospice with real bad wounds and he will sleep 'about 3 days'

3. "Do not touch me..." Is this referring to a harmful physical reaction if someone touched Jesus after being dead? What do you suppose the warning signified? Was a process happening currently or had he not yet chosen to ascend?

still hurts.... or simply 'you all did nothing to stop it, leave me alone'

4. If you believe the above appears to be reference to a physical/spiritual process, does this mean that Jesus was "ascending" to heaven without death?

Did they have ascending elevators back then? Or maybe wires were used like in peter pan? Otherwise.... seems someone was watching pink elephants and then ascending people....

5. Is it so that Jesus had to physically die twice or did the particles of his body cease to exist in this universe?

Seems there are more stories from more points of view on this aspects then the question 'what makes me alive?' Which could help all of us, rather than cause arguments on something that is impossible, even with today's rocket scientists.

6. Could the above be evidence of a not only spiritual, but physical heaven? Does this universe contain heaven?

Looking forward to perspectives!

This is the only place were 'rocks' combine with the ability to move mountains.

Or simply, this is the only place you and I will have the experience of choice and 'do' as we choose; we are in heaven.

Here we can make babies; and live in the child.
Plant trees; and live in the life of that choice.

Teach another; and live in the minds of others. (i.e... we still talking about Jesus, correct.)

Here we can 'do' and live beyond our period in them choices.

Just like sleep; physical death simply means; 'that' mind is not experiencing choice.

and no memories go with a spirit after physical death because memories are affixed to the mind (brain) of the body. (see alzheimer's)

so like the little youngster once wrote;

If Jesus died for our sins; what happens now? (he didn't stay dead)

 

[logician]

Death means loss of consciousness for eternity.

 

[Dunemeister]

Death means loss of consciousness for eternity.

This is a biblical debate. Care to shed light on how the bible affirms this?

 

[Mr. Peanut]

I don't know why he loved me enough to die for me, let alone raise from the dead, but I'm sure glad he did. While I believe by faith, I have read that many great scholars, lawyers, etc. call the resurrection a historical fact, many of whom began to examine the scripture and such in an attempt to disprove it. I'm just glad he did it. He opened the door for anyone, no matter who we are or what we have done to be freely pardoned forever by accepting the great swap he provided: he took our sins and gave us his righteousness. Halleluiah, what a Saviour. Oh, and he doesn't save us, like pulling a drowning man into a boat, only to toss you out ten miles from shore. Oh, no. He freely saves, and freely keeps us safely home.

 

[Katzpur]

All of my answers are from the LDS perspective.

1. When Jesus "rose" from the "dead," does that mean he was revived back to life again? In other words, was he physically alive just like any other human post his "rising"?

It means, to us, that His mortal body was pefected and made immortal, and that it would no longer be subject to disease or death. When He died on the cross, His spirit left His body. When He rose on the third day, it re-entered His body and He became, once again, alive.

2. During the three days of his (1st) death, do you suspect he was in heaven, or conscious in another form? Or was his body dormant and spirit dormant till the resurrection?

It was absolutely conscious but not in Heaven. The scriptures tell of His visit to the Spirit World, where mortal beings who have died await their own resurrection. He preached to the wicked spirits in "Prison" and presumably was reunited with the repentant thief who hung next to Him on the cross, whom He told He'd see in "Paradise" that same day.

3. "Do not touch me..." Is this referring to a harmful physical reaction if someone touched Jesus after being dead? What do you suppose the warning signified? Was a process happening currently or had he not yet chosen to ascend?

The Bible doesn't really imply that there would be a harmful physical reaction to Jesus being touched. But since He told Mary not to touch Him because He hadn't yet ascended to Heaven and told His Apostles shortly thereafter to touch His wounds, we can assume that in between those two events He did ascend temporarily to His Father.

4. If you believe the above appears to be reference to a physical/spiritual process, does this mean that Jesus was "ascending" to heaven without death?

No, we believe He was ascending to Heaven as a resurrected being. It's only possible to be resurrected if one has died and then been given new life.

5. Is it so that Jesus had to physically die twice or did the particles of his body cease to exist in this universe?

You totally lost me. I don't believe He died twice and can't even imagine what you might be referring to. If you'd like to clarify, I'll have a go at it.

6. Could the above be evidence of a not only spiritual, but physical heaven? Does this universe contain heaven?

Heaven, according to LDS theology, is definitely a physical place. As to whether it's a part of our universe or not, I really couldn't say. My guess, though, is that it's not.

Looking forward to perspectives!

Well, you've got mine!

 

[d3vaLL]

You totally lost me. I don't believe He died twice and can't even imagine what you might be referring to. If you'd like to clarify, I'll have a go at it.

Well the question derives from the fact that no one can find his body now, inferring that physical death of his body happened...again. Or if he went through some metaphysical "disappearing act" type thing to escape the physical world...or was "teleported" somewhere in this universe.

 

[Katzpur]

Well the question derives from the fact that no one can find his body now, inferring that physical death of his body happened...again. Or if he went through some metaphysical "disappearing act" type thing to escape the physical world...or was "teleported" somewhere in this universe.

Oh, I see what you were getting at. Well, if His body were to be found, it would be pretty disconcerting to me, since I believe He's now in Heaven with His Father.

 

[Charity]

I was just reading these posts and I agree with you Katz. Jesus is indeed in Heaven with the Father.......No body to be found here

 

[Bishadi]

All of my answers are from the LDS perspective.It means, to us, that His mortal body was pefected and made immortal, and that it would no longer be subject to disease or death.

but then

He died on the cross, His spirit left His body. When He rose on the third day, it re-entered His body and He became, once again, alive.

so then you said he is immortal, no disease, no more death: then where is he? Is this heaven past pluto as if he is alive in 'immortal flesh and blood' then where is he, physically.....

It was absolutely conscious but not in Heaven. The scriptures tell of His visit to the Spirit World, where mortal beings who have died await their own resurrection.

Purgatory?

No, we believe He was ascending to Heaven as a resurrected being. It's only possible to be resurrected if one has died and then been given new life.

Where? Are we talking about the 'levels' of ascention?

Heaven, according to LDS theology, is definitely a physical place. As to whether it's a part of our universe or not, I really couldn't say. My guess, though, is that it's not.

How about guessing we are in Heaven? When your body dies, does it have any more choice? Even when you sleep, does the mind (you) have conscious choice?

And remember when the body dies so do all memories as any alzheimer patient proves this unequivocal fact; memories are of the brain, not your conscious life (experience).

What you leave on this earth as good, like the compassion taught by Jesus, is what offers life ever lasting. Ever notice we still talk about them; live with the thought of them; from Confucius (do unto other and to yourself) to Darwin (knowledge evolves) to Jesus (why callest me good, no one is Good but One, God)... each of these people gave of themselves for us to learn from.


as for answering the post by the Peanut gallery.......

it is so sad that faith has damaged people so bad, that the very rules of the teaching are given up (honesty) just to be accepted by a religion.

all because lies live too

but each die, eventually just as the earth was found not to be the center of the universe as well no women was ever born from the rib of a man....

and soon people will find GOD is not sitting on a thrown in some magical mystical place; we live within God.... the total of existence and never separate.....

The first item to realize is that 'words' are the 'creation' of mankind and to honor nature will be far more pure than many belief created by the deception of men.

 

[Katzpur]

but then so then you said he is immortal, no disease, no more death: then where is he?

In Heaven.

Is this heaven past pluto as if he is alive in 'immortal flesh and blood' then where is he, physically.....

I have no idea where Heaven is.

Purgatory?

No. I don't believe in Purgatory.

Where? Are we talking about the 'levels' of ascention?

You might be. I'm not.

How about guessing we are in Heaven?

How about it?

When your body dies, does it have any more choice?

Your body doesn't. The spirit that resided in it during mortality does.

Even when you sleep, does the mind (you) have conscious choice?

I don't know.

And remember when the body dies so do all memories as any alzheimer patient proves this unequivocal fact; memories are of the brain, not your conscious life (experience).

What you leave on this earth as good, like the compassion taught by Jesus, is what offers life ever lasting. Ever notice we still talk about them; live with the thought of them; from Confucius (do unto other and to yourself) to Darwin (knowledge evolves) to Jesus (why callest me good, no one is Good but One, God)... each of these people gave of themselves for us to learn from.


as for answering the post by the Peanut gallery.......

it is so sad that faith has damaged people so bad, that the very rules of the teaching are given up (honesty) just to be accepted by a religion.

all because lies live too

but each die, eventually just as the earth was found not to be the center of the universe as well no women was ever born from the rib of a man....

and soon people will find GOD is not sitting on a thrown in some magical mystical place; we live within God.... the total of existence and never separate.....

The first item to realize is that 'words' are the 'creation' of mankind and to honor nature will be far more pure than many belief created by the deception of men.

Thanks for your perspective. It was interesting.