The sick concept of Eternal hell suffering.

[CG Didymus]

...a desire to ignore reality in hopes that that it doesn't exist?

Reality? Do Jews believe in the Christian devil and hell? Are Jewish spiritual teachings The Truth? I know, to a Christian the "OT" is the Truth, but what Jews believe is not, right? And then, which Christian truth? Catholics, Protestant, JW's? Which one is right? The different ways Christianity is believed and taught causes all of them to be suspect. Why believe any of them are true, if they, themselves, can't agree?

Plus, we have second hand and third hand sources telling us what Jesus said and what is true? What if they got it wrong? What if Jesus was talking about hell in a symbolic way? Since all people "sin" then only those that truly believed in Jesus get saved? Then we need to make concessions for those that lived before Jesus. Was Abraham perfect and sinless? How about David? Do we make concessions for children or the people in places that lived and died before ever hearing of Jesus?

Anyway, there's too many questions that can't be answered adequately by Christians. But a big question is, how does any Christian know they aren't one of the "lukewarm", since most Christians don't seem to be doing and living a NT "Christian" lifestyle. So that makes Christians themselves a good reason not to believe, the old "hypocritical" excuse. Which is a good one. If Christian don't believe it strongly enough to obey Jesus' commands, why should I?

 

[Sha'irullah]

I find the concept of eternal hell highly unjust unless we are talking about the souls of Karl Rove and John Boehner(whole other issue).

But other than those exceptions I believe that the "policy" of hell is to be removed or made applicable to all people

 

[Thief]

Then why even believe in it? Just for sh*ts and giggles?

Why?.....because there are 7billion copies of a learning device still breathing...
and soon they won't.

I don't see this generation as futile.
We ARE here to learn all that we can before we die.
The body can do little else.

Then what?.....turn to dust?.....nothing more?

I simply don't believe that Man is a mystery.
This form is made ot produce a unique spirit on each and every occasion.
THEN...we stand from the dust into something else....something more.

Hell as a possibility?.....of course.

What if you get stuck in a large group of souls that think and feel....
just like you?

Can you live with yourself?....forever?

But if it turns out to be a good thing....heaven it is!

 

[Sees]

Why?.....because there are 7billion copies of a learning device still breathing...
and soon they won't.

I don't see this generation as futile.
We ARE here to learn all that we can before we die.
The body can do little else.

Then what?.....turn to dust?.....nothing more?

I simply don't believe that Man is a mystery.
This form is made ot produce a unique spirit on each and every occasion.
THEN...we stand from the dust into something else....something more.

Hell as a possibility?.....of course.

What if you get stuck in a large group of souls that think and feel....
just like you?

Can you live with yourself?....forever?

But if it turns out to be a good thing....heaven it is!

Pass me that bottle brother :drunk:

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

Why?.....because there are 7billion copies of a learning device still breathing...
and soon they won't.

That doesn't make any sense. "People die, therefore hell exists."

 

[Thief]

That doesn't make any sense. "People die, therefore hell exists."

Truly confused?

If there is life after death you will group with others like yourself.
How else is there hope of peace?

People die...can't be helped.
People continue well...or they don't.

If you end up alongside others like yourself....
You will be happy to no end.....or completely miserable.

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

Truly confused?

If there is life after death you will group with others like yourself.
How else is there hope of peace?

People die...can't be helped.
People continue well...or they don't.

If you end up alongside other like yourself....
You will be happy to no end.....or completely miserable.

So you just use your belief in the Christian god as a backup plan just in case? Do you think your god would appreciate that? Pascal's Wager is a very flawed outlook from the start. What if the Muslims are right and you are going to hell along with me?
Also... Even if heaven or hell does not exist, death still brings peace. No pain, no suffering, nothing...just a lifeless, unconscious, body.

 

[ZooGirl02]

I believe that the punishment in Hell is directly proportionate to the sins we committed on earth.

 

[Thief]

So you just use your belief in the Christian god as a backup plan just in case? Do you think your god would appreciate that? Pascal's Wager is a very flawed outlook from the start. What if the Muslims are right and you are going to hell along with me?
Also... Even if heaven or hell does not exist, death still brings peace. No pain, no suffering, nothing...just a lifeless, unconscious, body.

I suspect it is an item of spirit....mind and heart.

The angelic can see you, as you really are.
We came into this life naked....more so as we leave.

I'm not really concerned about the dogmatics.

 

[Sha'irullah]

I believe that the punishment in Hell is directly proportionate to the sins we committed on earth.

This raises the question..... what are sins? What is the morality of god?

I can easily state as a Deist god has no morality at all since the morality of god must be calculable or measurable somehow. I hate using Christian references but if hell is the separation of man from god for sin in the context that we cannot live up to god's standards then on the non-theistic or liberal theistic standpoint we are all destined for hell if you believe in such a thing. Christians associated themselves as divine twice which is being made in god's image and god appearing in human form. They believe in the predestined unification of man with god. People without religions such as Christianity cannot make this assertion since we have to compare ourselves to god or a deity of any kind and if you associated the 3 O's with god than you are damned for hell if you believe in such a thing.

 

[Thief]

This raises the question..... what are sins? What is the morality of god?

I can easily state as a Deist god has no morality at all since the morality of god must be calculable or measurable somehow. I hate using Christian references but if hell is the separation of man from god for sin in the context that we cannot live up to god's standards then on the non-theistic or liberal theistic standpoint we are all destined for hell if you believe in such a thing. Christians associated themselves as divine twice which is being made in god's image and god appearing in human form. They believe in the predestined unification of man with god. People without religions such as Christianity cannot make this assertion since we have to compare ourselves to god or a deity of any kind and if you associated the 3 O's with god than you are damned for hell if you believe in such a thing.

How about?....Do unto others as you would have them do unto you....as a line drawn.

As you have done, you receive in return, on each occasion of meeting someone in the hereafter.

That would be fair?....or maybe you have a better line to draw?

 

[jtartar]

JESUS said in Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into eternal punishment: but the righteous into eternal life.

LittleNipper,
You are very correct when you put Matt 24:6 as saying to eternal punishment, but like so many other doctrines, all the information is not contained in ONE scripture.
Please turn to 2Thess 1:6-9, and see exactly what that eternal punishment amounts to. These scriptures say that the punishment is, eternal destruction. This means that everyone not written is God's book of life will be thrown into the Lake of Fire, The Second Death, Rev 20:13-15. The Lake of Fire is actually a symbol used to represent that everything thrown there will NEVER be seen again.
Much of the reason for the misunderstanding is because the Word HELL is really a corruption of the Greek word HADES. If you look up Acts in the KJV of the Bible you will see that Jesus even went into HELL. If HELL were a place for torment as many religious leaders say, Jesus would never have been there, even for a moment. Jesus was born perfect and remained perfect, sinless, all his life.
The term HELL actually means the common grave of all mankind, from which there is a hope of a resurrection, John 5:28,29, Acts 24:15.
The Hebrew term for grave was SHEOL, the Greek term, HADES, the common grave.
This can easily be determined by comparing Ps 16:10, with Acts 2:27,31, American Standard Version, or any Literal translation, or interlineal translation.

 

[Sha'irullah]

How about?....Do unto others as you would have them do unto you....as a line drawn.

As you have done, you receive in return, on each occasion of meeting someone in the hereafter.

That would be fair?....or maybe you have a better line to draw?

But you just stated the a moral law that was created by other people. How do you know this moral law is from god?

If god has a morality on the basis of equality why doe she require us to kill animals and destroy vegetation to survive? This deity has created animals that hunt and kill each other in an unfair manner and has made humans to sit on the ladder of judgement and bless us with dominion over many of our surroundings.

This moral set of rules is obviously not from god

 

[Thief]

But you just stated the a moral law that was created by other people. How do you know this moral law is from god?

If god has a morality on the basis of equality why doe she require us to kill animals and destroy vegetation to survive? This deity has created animals that hunt and kill each other in an unfair manner and has made humans to sit on the ladder of judgement and bless us with dominion over many of our surroundings.

This moral set of rules is obviously not from god

Picture the situation closer to the beginning.
The form intended was to yield a spirit.
Go forth be fruitful and multiply.

But Man behaved like other animals....with one more attribute.
He sought to dominate all things....a strong will.

With a self centered, self seeking focus, this attribute is even more a problem.
The spirit that forms of it, can't cross over death in a peaceful manner.
It fails.
Hence the belief heaven was closed to Man and no one could enter.

Intervention was needed.
Hence the garden event.

And then later Moses....

'An eye for an eye' was the precursor for 'do unto others as you would have them do unto you.'

It takes a while to teach on old dog new tricks.
Are we not still learning?

 

[Sha'irullah]

Picture the situation closer to the beginning.
The form intended was to yield a spirit.
Go forth be fruitful and multiply.

But Man behaved like other animals....with one more attribute.
He sought to dominate all things....a strong will.

With a self centered, self seeking focus, this attribute is even more a problem.
The spirit that forms of it, can't cross over death in a peaceful manner.
It fails.
Hence the belief heaven was closed to Man and no one could enter.

Intervention was needed.
Hence the garden event.

And then later Moses....

'An eye for an eye' was the precursor for 'do unto others as you would have them do unto you.'

It takes a while to teach on old dog new tricks.
Are we not still learning?

But I regard the entire book of Genesis as purely mythology not history so you are making a very useless argument

 

[Thief]

But I regard the entire book of Genesis as purely mythology not history so you are making a very useless argument

Consider the book as explanation.
Or perhaps the rendering of event in terms the people of the time could deal with.

Mythology?....then Man's beginning has no God?

 

[Sha'irullah]

Consider the book as explanation.
Or perhaps the rendering of event in terms the people of the time could deal with.

Mythology?....then Man's beginning has no God?

You make it seem as if mythology is an insulting word, I called the book of Genesis mythology because I respect it.

Also what on earth makes you think I am implying that man's beginning was a "genesis" without a god?

 

[Thief]

You make it seem as if mythology is an insulting word, I called the book of Genesis mythology because I respect it.

Also what on earth makes you think I am implying that man's beginning was a "genesis" without a god?

Are we then moving to agreement?

Calling the event a myth would be incorrect.
The story as presented in Genesis might not suit your taste or requirements for belief.
But to say our beginning on this earth had no spiritual 'push'.....
really doesn't make sense.

If it wasn't a spiritual 'push'...then it's all chemistry.

 

[CG Didymus]

Are we then moving to agreement?

Calling the event a myth would be incorrect.
The story as presented in Genesis might not suit your taste or requirements for belief.
But to say our beginning on this earth had no spiritual 'push'.....
really doesn't make sense.

If it wasn't a spiritual 'push'...then it's all chemistry.

If you don't like the word "mythology" how about the spiritual beliefs of the Jews? The things they have in their book spell out their beliefs about their concept of God. Does it include eternal hell suffering? They tell me "no." Hell is a Christian concept. I know Christians "find" verses in the Hebrew Bible to support their belief in hell. I know that Christians don't want to admit that their could have been pagan and Zoroastrian influences to their views about hell, but hell fits into Christian "spiritual" beliefs very well. Does that make it true? Yes, for Christians, yes, because their Bible, the "NT" says it's true. Does that make it absolutely true? Only if God withheld "The Truth" from the Jews. It seems more likely that ancient people were searching and trying to make sense of reality. Why is there pain and suffering? Why do evil doers seem to get away with their actions? There must be fairness. There must be justice. Eternal punishment for them is a pretty darn good way to explain it. Punishing relatively "nice" people? That's sick.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Are we then moving to agreement?

You are a confused person . The statements you made below are what make me say this...

Calling the event a myth would be incorrect.

A myth is a progressive realization of story telling that occurs naturally through human intellect(no matter how primitive) and coincides with culture, religion, ethics and societal norms.
The Bible as all religious texts are myths and only relevant to the reader, myths are esoteric and due to this they inspire and give us insight into unthinkable matters.

Myth is greater than truth.

The story as presented in Genesis might not suit your taste or requirements for belief.

It does, because it is a copy from the Epic of Gilgamesh in many particular ways and being a self professed Wathani revivalist I have no issues with this.

But to say our beginning on this earth had no spiritual 'push'.....
really doesn't make sense.

I have kept asserting the exact opposite this whole time, do you seriously just ignore everything people write? I have a feeling this is a bad habit of yours.

I assert that all actions conceivable are divine. Panendeism for the win

If it wasn't a spiritual 'push'...then it's all chemistry.

:thud: