The Silent Epidemic of Male Suicide

[Revoltingest]

revoltingest, do you need proof to discuss a hypothetical? treat it as a hypothetical, because the proof is ugly.

When I see incredible unfamiliar claims, I like to see verification.
Otherwise, I'll assume they're invalid.

 

[freethinker44]

For you, maybe. If a woman who says "traditional femininity has been great to women" isn't a feminist, it would be the same with men's issues. Or do you not believe in equality?

I feel like you don't want to agree with what I said, but can't disagree, so you just posted some non sequitur to keep the argument alive, either that or you completely misunderstood what I said because your post isn't even close to a proper response to "Traditional masculinity has been great to men over the years". What does that have to do with women and feminists, and why does it mean I don't believe in equality?

 

[Revoltingest]

Does anyone disagree with the notion that ideas of masculinity & femininity will vary with the individual?
The freedom to express this should be the goal.
That would be consistent with "equality".

 

[dust1n]

Does anyone disagree with the notion that ideas of masculinity & femininity will vary with the individual?
The freedom to express this should be the goal.
That would be consistent with "equality".

That's far too reasonable for me to agree with.

 

[Mohammad Nur Syamsu]

Does anyone disagree with the notion that ideas of masculinity & femininity will vary with the individual?
The freedom to express this should be the goal.
That would be consistent with "equality".

Sounds lame. People don't have to follow every thought and feeling they come up with, as if each feeling or thought is some kind of invidual with rights each. You can also cut down some thougts and feelings to keep yourself in check.

Scripture says homosexuality is related to worshipping the creation in stead of the creator. Wise words, probably.

I am a skeptic about transgenderism and homosexuality. I have to hear from it from a homosexual / transgender who actually believes he or she has a soul. Only then can I evaluate it.

With the term soul pretty much exactly defined as meaning all their emotions throughout their life, which make the decisions in their life turn out the way they do, and that the existence of the soul, and what is in the soul, is regarded as a matter of opinion. And a matter of opinion means choosing the answer about what is in the soul, by expression of emotion with free will, where any chosen answer is valid.

Somebody who does not believe they have a soul, well naturally their identity would be going all over the place. Feminine, masculine, whatever, every moment they have a different identity, and have different parts of their identity, because they don't keep discipline in believing in the soul, which is the unity for their identity for their whole life, and after death even.

 

[chevron1]

When I see incredible unfamiliar claims, I like to see verification.
Otherwise, I'll assume they're invalid.

Are these claims really unfamiliar?

Does anyone disagree with the notion that ideas of masculinity & femininity will vary with the individual?
The freedom to express this should be the goal.
That would be consistent with "equality".

The ideas of male and female do not generally vary.

 

[TurkeyOnRye]

While I certainly wouldn't discount evolution as a reason for the later observed female oppression in many societies, this doesn't make it necessary, just, or beneficial today. That you are positing an evolutionary basis for sexism only reinforces the need for feminism.

No. I do not support sexism. That's twisting my words. I am merely stating that biological differences will inevitably result in statistical disparities between the sexes.

If we assume your division, and work from there, why then are females not allowed equal or indeed higher status in decision making?

That's complicated. There 'is' sexism at work here, but I would suggest it's not the only challenge. In any case, males are barred as much as females in accessing certain career choices like education or nursing. I was actually a nursing student for a while until I decided to switch to a career in medical lab technology. Like I said before. It's not one-sided. And that's been my 'only' argument here.

Why are women later objectified?

Again...the issues are 'not' one-sided. Males have issues just like females, but we are not in the habit of talking about them.

You make a great case for a tribe out in the jungle or desert, but it makes less sense as society progresses. These differences make sense in one context but they stopped being relevant a long time ago.

That's a huge oversimplification of my point. I'd hate to continue talking about this here. Like Mystic said, this thread has gotten off-topic, so let's stick to the OP. Maybe we can make a different thread.

The biggest point here is what is beneficial for a wandering tribe is not necessarily beneficial for us today.

That goes without saying.

 

[chevron1]

That's a huge oversimplification of my point. I'd hate to continue talking about this here. Like Mystic said, this thread has gotten off-topic, so let's stick to the OP. Maybe we can make a different thread.



That goes without saying.

Are tribes really bad when they can protect you against marauders even in the modern world? There is no better protection when people disrespect people and won't acknowledge it.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Please discuss:

http://www.bcmj.org/articles/silent-epidemic-male-suicide

What's to discuss? More women than men try to kill themselves; more men than women succeed at killing themselves. Therefore, suicide is just another thing that men are better at than women.

 

[Revoltingest]

Sounds lame. People don't have to follow every thought and feeling they come up with, as if each feeling or thought is some kind of invidual with rights each. You can also cut down some thougts and feelings to keep yourself in check.

Why should any of us have to keep our feelings in check?
So long as we don't infringe upon the rights of others, it's all good.

Scripture says homosexuality is related to worshipping the creation in stead of the creator. Wise words, probably.

I have no scripture which says such things.

I am a skeptic about transgenderism and homosexuality. I have to hear from it from a homosexual / transgender who actually believes he or she has a soul. Only then can I evaluate it.

And many transgenders, transsexuals, homosexuals & bisexuals are skeptical of your scripture.

With the term soul pretty much exactly defined as meaning all their emotions throughout their life, which make the decisions in their life turn out the way they do, and that the existence of the soul, and what is in the soul, is regarded as a matter of opinion. And a matter of opinion means choosing the answer about what is in the soul, by expression of emotion with free will, where any chosen answer is valid.
Somebody who does not believe they have a soul, well naturally their identity would be going all over the place. Feminine, masculine, whatever, every moment they have a different identity, and have different parts of their identity, because they don't keep discipline in believing in the soul, which is the unity for their identity for their whole life, and after death even.

Your view of the "soul" isn't verifiable, nor is it shared by most others.
So it shouldn't be imposed upon anyone else.

 

[Revoltingest]

Why are women denied equal status in property ownership?

In the US, women have greater property rights than do men.
Dower rights & a few other ancient vestiges give them special privilege.

 

[Revoltingest]

Are these claims really unfamiliar?

Yes.

The ideas of male and female do not generally vary.

Au contraire....the issues are complex & varied.
This is true even in Texas....
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/oct/5/houston-transgender-bathroom-bill-debate-centers-o/

 

[Mohammad Nur Syamsu]

Your view of the "soul" isn't verifiable, nor is it shared by most others.
So it shouldn't be imposed upon anyone else.

You don't know what you are talking about. It's the standard definition of the soul, albeit a very precise one.

Save a few quack scientists who thought they could measure the soul upon passing, saying it weighs 21 gramms. Pretty much the whole point of the soul is that it is a subjective term, like beauty is also a subjective term. To make it objective destroys the concept of the soul.

And many homosexuals and transgendered are internally conflicted. They come up with it all on their own that it's better for man to be with woman, and for a man to be masculine. Scripture more explains that already existing conflict, in stead of adding to the conflict.

 

[Revoltingest]

You don't know what you are talking about. It's the standard definition of the soul, albeit a very precise one.

I know as much about the soul as you do.
I'm just not as familiar with the mythologies surrounding it.

Save a few quack scientists who thought they could measure the soul upon passing, saying it weighs 21 gramms. Pretty much the whole point of the soul is that it is a subjective term, like beauty is also a subjective term. To make it objective destroys the concept of the soul.

Objectivity destroys the concept of the soul?
We agree!

And many homosexuals and transgendered are internally conflicted. They come up with it all on their own that it's better for man to be with woman, and for a man to be masculine. Scripture more explains that already existing conflict, in stead of adding to the conflict.

You believe your subjectivity is superior to theirs?
How do you you know this?

 

[freethinker44]

Somebody who does not believe they have a soul, well naturally their identity would be going all over the place. Feminine, masculine, whatever, every moment they have a different identity, and have different parts of their identity, because they don't keep discipline in believing in the soul, which is the unity for their identity for their whole life, and after death even.

How is it even possible to know this?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

It's not that silent.


Over half of suicides are done with a gun.

Ba-da-dum!

 

[Mohammad Nur Syamsu]

I know as much about the soul as you do.

No you don't. You understand absolutely nothing about it, as you show here.

 

[freethinker44]

It's not that silent.


Over half of suicides are done with a gun.

Ba-da-dum!

Yeah, but if there's no one there to hear it, does it make a sound?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Yeah, but if there's no one there to hear it, does it make a sound?

Somebody should try recording it and find out.

 

[Revoltingest]

No you don't. You understand absolutely nothing about it, as you show here.

You're arguing that you have greater authority.
But this is unconvincing.

I could claim.....
"I know far more than you, so you're wrong."
Does this work?
Of course not.
So I recommend against this line of 'reasoning'.