the solution of Allah when war happened between two muslims parties

[dynavert2012]

for me , who insult Sahaba is sinner not Kafir .

why ? because he/she did Alshahada .

the rule is any one did Shahada is a Muslim .if he/she do good deeds that up to him , and if he do bad deeds that up to him too.

so if someone insult Allah or Muhammad or Sahahab , that's relation between him/her AND Allah , so if Allah forgive him/her or punish him/her that's up Him.

Allah knows best .

brother, monafiqoun "hypocrites" said no god but allah and mohamed is his mesenger and they are not muslims
When the hypocrites come to you, [O Muhammad], they say, "We testify that you are the Messenger of Allah ." And Allah knows that you are His Messenger, and Allah testifies that the hypocrites are liars, They have taken their oaths as a cover, so they averted [people] from the way of Allah . Indeed, it was evil that they were doing, That is because they believed, and then they disbelieved; so their hearts were sealed over, and they do not understand, And when you see them, their forms please you, and if they speak, you listen to their speech. [They are] as if they were pieces of wood propped up - they think that every shout is against them. They are the enemy, so beware of them. May Allah destroy them; how are they deluded?, And when it is said to them, "Come, the Messenger of Allah will ask forgiveness for you," they turn their heads aside and you see them evading while they are arrogant, It is all the same for them whether you ask forgiveness for them or do not ask forgiveness for them; never will Allah forgive them. Indeed, Allah does not guide the defiantly disobedient people."quran 63: 1-8

and Allah commanded his prophet to fight them "O Prophet, fight against the disbelievers and the hypocrites and be harsh upon them. And their refuge is Hell, and wretched is the destination" 9:73

 

[Godobeyer]

I see that you have very limited knowledge on this issue which you have invited us to discuss.

If a Muslim is called a kaffir and he is not a kaffir, then the person who said it is a kaffir.

You kept throwing the word takfir from post to post and now you are telling me that those who call the Sahaba kuffar are still Muslim because they say Shahada?

You have given me a very dishonest answer. Why, I don't know but it is a very dishonest answer. Maybe to support Assad and the Alawites.

I know it's fitna between the muslims , so every one had crimes against the other one, which burn the hate between the muslims , to justify their blood .

so I put the blame to who said who insult the Sahaba is kuffar , why ?
because they are not partners with Allah , to decide who is kafir or not ?
so i considerate it a sin to insutl a Sahaba than kuffer , because there is no evidence from Quran said , who insult the Sahaba is kafir .

then Allah is the most forgiveness , because he forgive everything except to worship a partner with him .

the proof this verse of Quran :

alnussa 4-47

[SIZE=2.2][SIZE=2.2]47) [/SIZE][SIZE=2.2]Lo! Allah forgiveth not that a partner should be ascribed unto Him. He forgiveth (all) save that to whom He will. Whoso ascribeth partners to Allah, he hath indeed invented a tremendous sin. (48) [/SIZE][SIZE=2.2]Hast thou not seen those who praise themselves for purity? Nay, Allah purifieth whom He will, and they will not be wronged even the hair upon a date-stone. (49) [/SIZE][SIZE=2.2]See, how they invent lies about Allah! That of itself is flagrant sin. (50)[/SIZE][/SIZE]

 

[Godobeyer]

brother, monafiqoun "hypocrites" said no god but allah and mohamed is his mesenger and they are not muslims
When the hypocrites come to you, [O Muhammad], they say, "We testify that you are the Messenger of Allah ." And Allah knows that you are His Messenger, and Allah testifies that the hypocrites are liars, They have taken their oaths as a cover, so they averted [people] from the way of Allah . Indeed, it was evil that they were doing, That is because they believed, and then they disbelieved; so their hearts were sealed over, and they do not understand, And when you see them, their forms please you, and if they speak, you listen to their speech. [They are] as if they were pieces of wood propped up - they think that every shout is against them. They are the enemy, so beware of them. May Allah destroy them; how are they deluded?, And when it is said to them, "Come, the Messenger of Allah will ask forgiveness for you," they turn their heads aside and you see them evading while they are arrogant, It is all the same for them whether you ask forgiveness for them or do not ask forgiveness for them; never will Allah forgive them. Indeed, Allah does not guide the defiantly disobedient people."quran 63: 1-8

and Allah commanded his prophet to fight them "O Prophet, fight against the disbelievers and the hypocrites and be harsh upon them. And their refuge is Hell, and wretched is the destination" 9:73

i guess you out of topic , by this post .

do you considerate the other muslims sect , like Alawist , a monafiqin "hypocrites"?

Monafiq is who represent Islam , and he is not muslim , not the other beliefs of muslims ,

 

[Gharib]

I know it's fitna between the muslims , so every one had crimes against the other one, which burn the hate between the muslims , to justify their blood .

so I put the blame to who said who insult the Sahaba is kuffar , why ?
because they are not partners with Allah , to decide who is kafir or not ?
so i considerate it a sin to insutl a Sahaba than kuffer , because there is no evidence from Quran said , who insult the Sahaba is kafir .

then Allah is the most forgiveness , because he forgive everything except to worship a partner with him .

the proof this verse of Quran :

alnussa 4-47

Allah says in the Qur'an that he is pleased with the Sahaba who gave their pledge of allegiance to the Prophet under the tree in Hudaybiyah.

And the Prophet has said that if a Muslim is called a kaffir by another Muslim then the one who called the other a kaffir becomes a kaffir if the accused Muslim is not a kaffir.

So anyone who calls the Sahaba kaffir has become a kaffir himself.

 

[Assad91]

Sahaba fighting each other that their own problem , that accident it's not my refenence to resolve the fitna between two muslims parties , my reference is this :

وَإِن طَآٮِٕفَتَانِ مِنَ ٱلۡمُؤۡمِنِينَ ٱقۡتَتَلُواْفَأَصۡلِحُواْ بَيۡنَہُمَا*ۖ فَإِنۢ بَغَتۡ إِحۡدَٮٰهُمَا عَلَى ٱلۡأُخۡرَىٰ فَقَـٰتِلُواْ ٱلَّتِى تَبۡغِى حَتَّىٰ تَفِىٓءَ إِلَىٰٓ أَمۡرِ ٱللَّهِ*ۚ فَإِن فَآءَتۡ فَأَصۡلِحُواْ بَيۡنَہُمَا بِٱلۡعَدۡلِ وَأَقۡسِطُوٓاْ*ۖ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ يُحِبُّ ٱلۡمُقۡسِطِينَ (٩&#65279


49-9 Alhujurat
And if two parties of believers fall to fighting, then make peace between them. And if one party of them doeth wrong to the other, fight ye that which doeth wrong till it return unto the ordinance of Allah; then, if it return, make peace between them justly, and act equitably. Lo! Allah loveth the equitable. (9)


that's a rule , Allah was clear , HE ORDER us to make peace between two sect of Muslims fighting , so who disagee with that , he/she disobeye what Allah said .

so any one called for Jihad in Syria or Iraq or any peacefull islamic country is takfiri and had terrorist way of thinking .

for me anyone claim that Alawiyeen is kufaar is takfiri (terrorist ) .

So you reference to resolve the problems (fitna) between two parties of muslims is the history of Muslims ,not what Allah said/want ?

You didn't answer my question


What do you make of the Sahaba who fought against each other?

What about the A'isha (ra) and Ali ibn Abi Talib (ra) who fought with Battle of Jamal? What do you think of them? Was A'isha a "takfiryin"?



You seem to forget that is is perfectly allowed in Islam to rise against unjust rulers.

 

[Godobeyer]

i'm calling alawiyin as kufar, why because they are saying that Ali is deity
and if you don't know why i said that, just read this article
Alawi Sect
if you considered that Islam, so it's up to you

i'm not takfiri and i'm considering them one of the 72 misguided sect but i think saying a kafir is kafir isn't a sin

they love Ali (pbuh) too much, so they kufar ?

so let's suppose they deity Ali (pbuh) , that's between them and Allah , Allah who would judge them , not you .
my point is :
SO if Allah forgive them for deity Ali (pbuh) , you would reject Allah will ?

so instead of advise them , you called them kuffar , and calling for jihad against them ?

and who give you the right to call millions of people ,made Shahada "KUFAAR" ?
and what is your reference from the Quran to judge the people belief ?

 

[Gharib]

they love Ali (pbuh) too much, so they kufar ?

so let's suppose they deity Ali (pbuh) , that's between them and Allah , Allah who would judge them , not you .
my point is :
SO if Allah forgive them for deity Ali (pbuh) , you would reject Allah will ?

so instead of advise them , you called them kuffar , and calling for jihad against them ?

and who give you the right to call millions of people ,made Shahada "KUFAAR" ?
and what is your reference from the Quran to judge the people belief ?

Why did Abu Bakr wage war against those who refused to pay Zakah?

Are you saying Abu Bakr was wrong to wage war against those who said the Shahada but refused to pay Zakah?

 

[Godobeyer]

You didn't answer my question


What do you make of the Sahaba who fought against each other?

What about the A'isha (ra) and Ali ibn Abi Talib (ra) who fought with Battle of Jamal? What do you think of them? Was A'isha a "takfiryin"?



You seem to forget that is is perfectly allowed in Islam to rise against unjust rulers.

I told you before , my reference is not the history of Muslims (Sahaba) , my refence what Allah said in the Quran .

Allah said in Quran: if there is fitna (war ) between two muslims , make peace between them
Allah said Quran: don't kill the muslim , and if you did you would be in the hell forever .
Allah said Quran: He would forgive everthing except to worship a partner .

 

[Godobeyer]

Why did Abu Bakr wage war against those who refused to pay Zakah?

Are you saying Abu Bakr was wrong to wage war against those who said the Shahada but refused to pay Zakah?

why the Alawist , or Shai , don't pay the Zakah ?
they are muslims , pay the Zakah , and fast Ramadan , and Make haj, and Pray 5 times a day ...etc

it's very very very serieux thing and risk decision to call Jihad against other sect of Muslims , it's crime against Islam .

so don't follow the scholars , or videos , whom callling the hate against other muslims .

 

[Assad91]

I told you before , my reference is not the history of Muslims (Sahaba) , my refence what Allah said in the Quran .

Allah said in Quran: if there is fitna (war ) between two muslims , make peace between them
Allah said Quran: don't kill the muslim , and if you did you would be in the hell forever .
Allah said Quran: He would forgive everthing except to worship a partner .

Do you understand english? Are you not able to logically see the relevance of what I am pointing out?

 

[Godobeyer]

Do you understand english? Are you not able to logically see the relevance of what I am pointing out?

indeed I understand your point ,
as i understand ,you justify the war between the muslims , because it's happened before between the Sahaba , right ?

 

[Assad91]

indeed I understand your point ,
as i understand ,you justify the war between the muslims , because it's happened before between the Sahaba , right ?

I am done.

 

[dynavert2012]

i guess you out of topic , by this post .

do you considerate the other muslims sect , like Alawist , a monafiqin "hypocrites"?

Monafiq is who represent Islam , and he is not muslim , not the other beliefs of muslims ,

you said they are Muslims just because they said shahadah, monafquin also said shahdah, so i want to say not each one who said shahada is a Muslim

 

[dynavert2012]

they love Ali (pbuh) too much, so they kufar ?

it's not love, it reaches worship

so let's suppose they deity Ali (pbuh) , that's between them and Allah , Allah who would judge them , not you .[/QUOTE]

so why you are considering Christians as Kufar ? they l;ove Jesus anymore indeed your words are destroying the concept of tawheed "monotheism"
my point is :
SO if Allah forgive them for deity Ali (pbuh) , you would reject Allah will ?[/QUOTE]

allah said he will not forgive anybody who made a partner with him

so instead of advise them , you called them kuffar , and calling for jihad against them ?

and who give you the right to call millions of people ,made Shahada "KUFAAR" ?
and what is your reference from the Quran to judge the people belief ?

i'm not calling for Jihad against them, they are minority in Syria and refusing to handover the power to the majority Sunni or to all the people and to elect a new president instead of this bloody dictatorial system, and the situation there are like all the Arab spring why nobody said it's in egypt a revolution from muslim brotherhood against secular?


the quran itself judges the people's belief, it talks about Jews, Christians, all other religions and it explained Islam, and said "And whoever invokes besides Allah another deity for which he has no proof - then his account is only with his Lord. Indeed, the disbelievers will not succeed." 23:17

so who call another deity beside Allah, Allah called him a disbeliever, i did as the quran did

 

[Godobeyer]

you said they are Muslims just because they said shahadah, monafquin also said shahdah, so i want to say not each one who said shahada is a Muslim

if some one insult some Sahaba or make sin , or Monafiq
that's between him and Allah ,He would forgive him or punish him , so you have no obligation on him .

it's NOT easy to call someone Kafir , especialy when he did Shahada .

for me anyone did Shahada and believe in it is a muslim , what he did sin or good deeds that between him/her and Allah , there is a judgement day

So takfiriyin they judge the people instead of God.

I remember recently in 1970s most of Algerians and tunisians and Morocains went to to visit tombs and worship Allah and the Wali Salih , that definitly forbiden and Shirk , so the imams invent them to the right way , Alhamdu illah this way of thinking/belief is gone , and most of the people back to the straight way .

so if the takfiriyin existed in Algeria in that time , they would kill 16 millions Algerians ?

 

[Breathe]

May I ask why Alawites are considered kuffaar?

I quickly read through the Wikipedia entry on them, and it says that they may believe in reincarnation, Ali as a deity, and follow some non-Islamic festivals, but that these may be conjecture. Am I mistaken?

Is there anything else I'm missing?

 

[Gharib]

May I ask why Alawites are considered kuffaar?

I quickly read through the Wikipedia entry on them, and it says that they may believe in reincarnation, Ali as a deity, and follow some non-Islamic festivals, but that these may be conjecture. Am I mistaken?

Is there anything else I'm missing?

In general those who insult and declare the companions of the Prophet to be non-believers are non-believers themselves and outside of the fold of Islam.

Most shia sects speak ill of a number of companions and even his wife Aisha. There is one sect I believe who are in line with the views of Sunni's but the rest are not.

Moreover, they believe that the 12 Imams (leaders) who will come after the Prophet are infallible. Again this is against the teachings of Islam. These Imams are given a somewhat status of divinity.

There are a number of other things but these are just a couple of the major ones for which they are considered to be non-Muslim.

 

[F0uad]

May I ask why Alawites are considered kuffaar?

I quickly read through the Wikipedia entry on them, and it says that they may believe in reincarnation, Ali as a deity, and follow some non-Islamic festivals, but that these may be conjecture.

I think you are correct and all these things are Kuffar (forbidden) in islam who ever is involved in Shirk (Giving partners to Allah) is a kaffir.

 

[Godobeyer]

May I ask why Alawites are considered kuffaar?

I quickly read through the Wikipedia entry on them, and it says that they may believe in reincarnation, Ali as a deity, and follow some non-Islamic festivals, but that these may be conjecture. Am I mistaken?

Is there anything else I'm missing?

For my opinion their believe is part of Shia or similiar to Shia , so they are definitly muslims ,so as i know they believe in one God ,and his prophet Muhammad (pbuh) , and make Shahada .


The Alawites take their name from Ali ibn Abi Talib, cousin of Muḥammad,[12] who was considered the first Shi'a Imam and the fourth "Rightly Guided Caliph" of Sunni Islam.

from the wiki link , said their belief is Shia Islam .

Alawites - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Assad91]

if some one insult some Sahaba or make sin , or Monafiq
that's between him and Allah ,He would forgive him or punish him , so you have no obligation on him .

it's NOT easy to call someone Kafir , especialy when he did Shahada .

for me anyone did Shahada and believe in it is a muslim , what he did sin or good deeds that between him/her and Allah , there is a judgement day

So takfiriyin they judge the people instead of God.

I remember recently in 1970s most of Algerians and tunisians and Morocains went to to visit tombs and worship Allah and the Wali Salih , that definitly forbiden and Shirk , so the imams invent them to the right way , Alhamdu illah this way of thinking/belief is gone , and most of the people back to the straight way .

so if the takfiriyin existed in Algeria in that time , they would kill 16 millions Algerians ?

Its evident you don't know any fiqh on this topic.

Fortunately, we can't interpret Islam with "I think".