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The "something can't come from nothing" argument

Willamena

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
Should we preach dogmatic non-dualism instead? Everything is something and nothing. Something does not come from nothing, but neither does it come from something; something is nothing and nothing is something.
 
idav

idav

Being
Premium Member
Willamena said:
Should we preach dogmatic non-dualism instead? Everything is something and nothing. Something does not come from nothing, but neither does it come from something; something is nothing and nothing is something.
Click to expand...
Preaching shows that there is dogma. We can debate or discuss it rather than preach it.
 
Ouroboros

Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
Willamena said:
Should we preach dogmatic non-dualism instead? Everything is something and nothing. Something does not come from nothing, but neither does it come from something; something is nothing and nothing is something.
Click to expand...
Well, that's something to think about.
:p
 
nazz

nazz

Doubting Thomas
Big_TJ said:
I have seen this argument branded about to somewhat discredit evolution (I am lost as to why persons think this have anything to do with evolution, but that's another story). But I would put it to "creationists" that it is you who are advocating that something indeed came out of nothing. Let's forget the "who created God" question for a while; you (usually) advocate that God created everything..ok.

So here is my question: What did God uses to create the VERY FIRST thing that he created? Wouldn't that FIRST thing had to be created from ....nothing?? For example, if he created dirt first, what did he create that dirt from (since dirt would be the first thing created, there wouldn't be any other "something" around; would there)?

See, your argument that God created everything cannot, in my opinion, work unless you are advocating the "something actually came from nothing."
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Yes, it is contradictory, I agree.
 
T

ttechsan

twitter @ttechsan
Apologetics Press -

Here is a scientific reply to abiogenesis. God is outside of our world and can create and did create time and everything we see. He has no limits. God can't be put in the box we as humans have since He is supernatural Himself. Thus outside of our natural world since He created it.
 
Tumah

Tumah

Veteran Member
The concept of creation as "something" from "nothing" is found in Jewish literature.
 
McBell

McBell

Unbound
ttechsan said:
Apologetics Press -

Here is a scientific reply to abiogenesis. God is outside of our world and can create and did create time and everything we see. He has no limits. God can't be put in the box we as humans have since He is supernatural Himself. Thus outside of our natural world since He created it.
Click to expand...

:biglaugh:

"scientific reply to abiogenesis"

:biglaugh:
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Big_TJ said:
I have seen this argument branded about to somewhat discredit evolution (I am lost as to why persons think this have anything to do with evolution, but that's another story). But I would put it to "creationists" that it is you who are advocating that something indeed came out of nothing. Let's forget the "who created God" question for a while; you (usually) advocate that God created everything..ok.

So here is my question: What did God uses to create the VERY FIRST thing that he created? Wouldn't that FIRST thing had to be created from ....nothing?? For example, if he created dirt first, what did he create that dirt from (since dirt would be the first thing created, there wouldn't be any other "something" around; would there)?

See, your argument that God created everything cannot, in my opinion, work unless you are advocating the "something actually came from nothing."
Click to expand...

A recent science program leans to the notion of something from nothing.....
in terms of quatum mechanics.
But that renders experimentation void as the effect and the cause are then separated.

Predicting what you can expect as a result is essential.

But the formation of Man is intended to have unique form on each occasion of the form.
No two humans are exactly the same.
The spirit rendered as the chemistry fails was the function.....I believe.
 
FunctionalAtheist

FunctionalAtheist

Hammer of Reason
ttechsan said:
Apologetics Press -

Here is a scientific reply to abiogenesis. God is outside of our world and can create and did create time and everything we see. He has no limits. God can't be put in the box we as humans have since He is supernatural Himself. Thus outside of our natural world since He created it.
Click to expand...

In what state of mind is this scientific? Source? Study? Statistics? Observation? Experiment?
 
Call_of_the_Wild

Call_of_the_Wild

Well-Known Member
Big_TJ said:
So here is my question: What did God uses to create the VERY FIRST thing that he created? Wouldn't that FIRST thing had to be created from ....nothing??
Click to expand...

There is some kind of fallacy being used here, not sure which though lol...the fallacy of equivocation comes to mind for some reason, but anyway...the title of your thread is "The something can't come from nothing" argument, yet what you describe in the content of your post is not the same as what the title of the thread entails. When we (typically Creationists) say "something can't come from nothing", we mean that things don't pop in to being completely uncaused out of nothing. That is what we mean; out of nothing, nothing comes. Now, this is clearly not the same thing as God creating something out of nothing, because something did not come from nothing, but something came FROM something. The first thing that God created came from God, and I could argue that God, in his omnipotence, has the power to bring every logical concept in to existence (the universe included). So in this case, something does not come from nothing, something comes from something.


Big_TJ said:
For example, if he created dirt first, what did he create that dirt from (since dirt would be the first thing created, there wouldn't be any other "something" around; would there)?

See, your argument that God created everything cannot, in my opinion, work unless you are advocating the "something actually came from nothing."
Click to expand...

And the first act of creation was in fact a miracle, and miracles are within the power of an omnipotent God, and there is nothing irrational about this concept and the only way one can deny it is not because it defies logic, but because this person just doesn't like the idea of a god and miracles.

So once again, when we say something cant come from nothing...we mean that things don't just pop in to existence uncaused out of nothing, which is almost as equally absurd (if not as absurd) as the idea that the universe existed eternally through time. When a magician pulls a rabbit out of the hat, at least viewers will know that the magician caused the rabbit to appear. But this is not the same concept as the rabbit just popping in to existence completely uncaused out of nothingness.

Big difference.
 
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