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The source of meaning from within, kill the Buddha!

dfnj

Well-Known Member
There's a Buddhist saying, "If you see the Buddha on the road, kill him!" I've always interpreted this to mean when it comes to opinions about spirituality absolute authority comes from within. After claiming absolute authority comes from within, I will often tell people anyone who tells you differently is either trying to sell you something or trying to get you to join the power structure of their cult.

Recently during a conversation with some evangelicals I’ve been saying, “I believe absolute authority comes from within” probably too many times. After hearing their comments, I started thinking maybe what I am saying is not so obvious. So, I started really thinking about what absolute authority from within really means. I've been thinking about this idea what is the source from within or what is the source of our thoughts.

Many people believe consciousness is a delusion. Many people think of our consciousness with a computer metaphor. What we experience as thoughts is the running of a computer program. Everything making of our minds is a side effect emanating from the material of our brains. And there are parts of our brain that correspond to parts of a computer like memory and MPU. People who believe consciousness is a delusion claim our mind only exists and will only ever exist within the material of our brain. And therefore, there is no soul, no one is psychic, and there is no such thing as telepathy.

The thing is after over 100+ years of research we have no clear idea how memory works inside our brains. I recently read somewhere our brains are more like an analog radio receiver than a computer. Our brains process signals coming from the Universe and from within our own minds. And our thoughts are the result of an interpretation of signals. Also, at the same time our thoughts are a transmission of a signal back to the Universe. And even further, with this model, our memories are part of collective field of energy existing in some higher dimension which we tap into it. The idea is our memories do not necessarily exist entirely within the material substance of our brains.

I have seen this idea of our brains being more like an analog radio receiver being used as a possible explanation of the Flynn effect:

Flynn effect - Wikipedia

There are people who have researched this way of thinking. I read book title, “Living in a mindful Universe” by Eben Alexander. He describes his story of being in a coma with no measurable brain activity and then coming back with memories and profound insights into the nature consciousness. He was a staunch materialist who then did a complete 180 degree turn after his own near death experiences.

Lately I’ve been studying panpsychism. In the philosophy of the mind panpsychism is the idea consciousness is a fundamental part of existence. With panpsychism there is a mind-like aspect to every organization of matter in the Universe.

Panpsychism - Wikipedia

Criticisms of panpsychism is it leads to many bizarre theories that cannot be empirically tested. But who wants to be a “square” living within a box of narrow-minded views? Having a filter of only accepting ideas that can be empirically tested is boring. People who are boring never get invited to parties! Thinking outside the box is the spice of life! I am drawn to panpsychism because it helps me to frame my understanding of what I consider to be some of the more stranger aspects of our experiences being here.

Combine panpsychism with the negentropic principle and the purpose of our Universe and the purpose of evolution is the creation of consciousness so the Universe can experience itself with greater and greater levels of complexity and beauty.

I’ve been thinking about what the source of all our thoughts is and our relationship to it. Many people claim authority about spirituality can only come from somewhere out-there. Somewhere along the line I hooked into the idea of killing the Buddha. For many years I’ve been resonating with the idea absolute authority comes from within with regards to our opinions about God and spirituality.

I don’t mean this is the sense of having an over weaning ego. I don’t mean it in the sense of being an arrogant bully to other people and their beliefs. I mean it the sense each of us is on our own path with our spiritual awakening. No one can take the journey for you. The answer to our spirituality is not out-there. We have everything we need to figure out who we are and our place in the Universe from within. I will go further and make a leap of intuition and say unless you do the hard work yourself you will not successfully achieve the result.

People often use a mirror metaphor to describe the nature of our minds. When our mind is cluttered with emotions and thoughts of this and that our mirror is dirty. We are not able to get a clear vision of who we are when our mirror is dirty. Our connection to the source of all consciousness is clouded by a having a dirty mirror. It’s probably more like lens or a two-mirror where some of the information is coming through from the other side beyond the mirror.

So, I’ve been thinking about this idea where does the source of all our thoughts come from. Many theists have claimed to have had profound experiences which is the reason or cause of their belief in God. I’ve heard people claim there are moments where one feels a presence of something bigger and more transcendent that just our normal experience of reality. I’ve been resonating on the idea that the source of all our thoughts is coming from this transcendent mind. And where things get fouled up is in our interpretation of the signal which gets distorted by our lens or our mirror being dirty.

I’ve been also recently resonating with the idea of the Holy Trinity. The trinity is thought of as three different aspects of the same one God. The Father God part is thought of as the ground of all being. Father God is the ultimate consciousness. Father God is the ultimate source of being. God is the "I am the I am".

Father God is differentiated from two other functions in the World. There is the principle of Form. The principle of Form is known at the Word of God. The Word of God is the division of all things. God divides the whole into parts, light from darkness, Heaven from Earth, etc. The principle of form is also known as the Son where the Son is a separate from Father God.

The third function is the principle of Energy. This is brought about by God speaking or the breath of God. God said, "Let there be light" etc. This is experienced as movement and change. Or the experience of time itself. The breath of God is what flows through all of existence. This is also known as the Holy Spirit.

God is one but composed of all three of these aspects. God is often thought of as being an old man with a long white beard who acts like a tyrant king. I think this is the wrong view. There is a knowable part of God. And then there is an unknowable part of God which transcends all thoughts and experience. Both parts are necessary in understanding the idea of God.

I’ve been resonating with the idea of Apophatic theology or negative theology. With this way of thinking God cannot be defined with words. We can only speak about God in terms of what may not be said about the perfect goodness that is God. This is combined with cataphatic theology which attempts to define the knowable parts of God. The Holy Trinity is composed of a relationship between these two types of theology. I really like this quote as an insight into the nature of God:

"Dionysius describes the kataphatic or affirmative way to the divine as the "way of speech": that we can come to some understanding of the Transcendent by attributing all the perfections of the created order to God as its source. In this sense, we can say "God is Love", "God is Beauty", "God is Good". The apophatic or negative way stresses God's absolute transcendence and unknowability in such a way that we cannot say anything about the divine essence because God is so totally beyond being. The dual concept of the immanence and transcendence of God can help us to understand the simultaneous truth of both "ways" to God: at the same time as God is immanent, God is also transcendent. At the same time as God is knowable, God is also unknowable. God cannot be thought of as one or the other only"

I’ve also been resonating with the philosophical idea called, “unity of opposites.” A unity of opposites is the idea that meaning only can come from having two opposites locked in a field of tension or relationship. This is the idea of the famous Taoist yin-yang symbol.

The unity of opposites is described as a revelation of the oneness of things previously thought to be different as seen in relationship to each other. But from a more transcendent view is the realization the two only have meaning in relationship to each other.

Unity of opposites - Wikipedia

So, I believe the three aspects of God form a unity of opposites. There is dance going on between the principle of form and the principle of energy. And behind it all or transcending it is the Father God part which is the ground of all being.

The ritual of communion is intended to experience the Holy Trinity in the moment. The body of Christ is the word of God, the blood of Christ is the Holy Spirit, and the ritual is meant for us to appreciate or have an experience of the presence of Father God in the moment.
 
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dfnj

Well-Known Member
The idea of a trinity as a source of meaning most likely exists in every major religion throughout the World. In Taoism there's a saying, "From the one comes the two, from the two comes the three, from the three comes the 10,000 things."

"In the Tibetan Book of the Dead, the “Three Bodies of Buddhahood,” present triadic levels of existence. A person is responsible for his or herself on all three levels. As Buddhahood, the triad becomes the Three Buddha Bodies; ordinary body becoming the Emanation Body, speech the Beatific Body, and the mind the Truth Body. The three Buddha Bodies correlate with body, mind and spirit, and we might go so far as to say with the concept of the Father as God, the Son as personhood and the Holy Spirit as the process by which a person becomes one with God, and also suggest a more unified and process-oriented explanation for the Trinity."

3: The Perfect Number - Trinity Symbolism in World Religious Traditions

This idea occurs in nature as well. We have what we call objects or objective reality which is like the word of God. And we have the laws of physics which is like the Holy Spirit flowing through the Universe. And Father God is the observer or the experience of Time. The Universe is like the body of God. And time is like blood flowing through God's body. And the mind of God transcends it all.

The trinity is one of my favorite spiritual concepts. I cannot imagine a religion or belief system worth having without it.

So here is what I have come up over the years with different forms of the trinity of meaning:

Matter = Yin = Body = Body of Christ = Principle of Form
Energy = Yang = Mind = Blood of Christ = Principle of Energy
Time = Tao = Spirit = Father God = Father God as the ultimate source of being

As I said I’ve been studying panpsychism. I’ve come up with a new trinity model. The idea is our brain is like a radio receiver. The signal is the energy of experience or our thoughts. And what transcends it all is our consciousness (brains, thoughts, and consciousness).

The conclusion being the source of our consciousness is Father God since we are all part of the same living Holy Trinity.
 
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MNoBody

Well-Known Member
brought to mind this bit from castanedas material about the 4 enemies....the trick he reveals later to defeating them was to deny them....fear, clarity...power......and old age even, this illusion of dissolution which mortality affords
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
...The thing is after over 100+ years of research we have no clear idea how memory works inside our brains....
That is actually not reflected in the most recent research, and this has only been under research, truly, since the 60's. Since the 60's a lot of progress has been made and a lot has been discovered about the nature of memory. The research is incomplete, but its not worthless.

...So, I’ve been thinking about this idea where does the source of all our thoughts come from...
Even when the biological basis of knowledge is established the question (I think) remains an abstract one: what is the basis of thought forms and loops of meaning and context? I mean its like the questions people ask about the value of emotions. It is known that emotions are chemically driven, however that doesn't prove that they have no higher meaning. Thought would come under the same umbrella of higher meaning.

At this time its better that Science says nothing about it, since the research is ongoing.

...Many people believe consciousness is a delusion...
Who is that? Also, I think that there are some semantic definitions which cause people who actually agree to appear like we disagree. As an example: what Hindus think of as consciousness may be different from what westerners think of as consciousness, so if a westerner thinks that consciousness is a delusion its not the same as if a Hindu does.
 

dfnj

Well-Known Member
Who is that? Also, I think that there are some semantic definitions which cause people who actually agree to appear like we disagree. As an example: what Hindus think of as consciousness may be different from what westerners think of as consciousness, so if a westerner thinks that consciousness is a delusion its not the same as if a Hindu does.

Many philosophical materialists think the brain has no consciousness at all. They believe all matter is just blinding executing the laws of physics without any feedback loops or depth back to God. Here is a good talk on people claiming consciousness is a delusion:

 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Many philosophical materialists think the brain has no consciousness at all. They believe all matter is just blinding executing the laws of physics without any feedback loops or depth back to God. Here is a good talk on people claiming consciousness is a delusion:
Its part of the whole picture. Research might determine that thought can be explained by chemical and electrical phenomena, but this only tells us how people approximate thought not what thought is. Researchers may even duplicate the effects, but this also doesn't establish what consciousness is. One thing about consciousness is that you have to believe it exists in order to see whether it does. If you don't believe it exists then you can't perceive it.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
There's a Buddhist saying, "If you see the Buddha on the road, kill him!" I've always interpreted this to mean when it comes to opinions about spirituality absolute authority comes from within. After claiming absolute authority comes from within, I will often tell people anyone who tells you differently is either trying to sell you something or trying to get you to join the power structure of their cult.

Recently during a conversation with some evangelicals I’ve been saying, “I believe absolute authority comes from within” probably too many times. After hearing their comments, I started thinking maybe what I am saying is not so obvious. So, I started really thinking about what absolute authority from within really means. I've been thinking about this idea what is the source from within or what is the source of our thoughts.

Many people believe consciousness is a delusion. Many people think of our consciousness with a computer metaphor. What we experience as thoughts is the running of a computer program. Everything making of our minds is a side effect emanating from the material of our brains. And there are parts of our brain that correspond to parts of a computer like memory and MPU. People who believe consciousness is a delusion claim our mind only exists and will only ever exist within the material of our brain. And therefore, there is no soul, no one is psychic, and there is no such thing as telepathy.

The thing is after over 100+ years of research we have no clear idea how memory works inside our brains. I recently read somewhere our brains are more like an analog radio receiver than a computer. Our brains process signals coming from the Universe and from within our own minds. And our thoughts are the result of an interpretation of signals. Also, at the same time our thoughts are a transmission of a signal back to the Universe. And even further, with this model, our memories are part of collective field of energy existing in some higher dimension which we tap into it. The idea is our memories do not necessarily exist entirely within the material substance of our brains.

I have seen this idea of our brains being more like an analog radio receiver being used as a possible explanation of the Flynn effect:

Flynn effect - Wikipedia

There are people who have researched this way of thinking. I read book title, “Living in a mindful Universe” by Eben Alexander. He describes his story of being in a coma with no measurable brain activity and then coming back with memories and profound insights into the nature consciousness. He was a staunch materialist who then did a complete 180 degree turn after his own near death experiences.

Lately I’ve been studying panpsychism. In the philosophy of the mind panpsychism is the idea consciousness is a fundamental part of existence. With panpsychism there is a mind-like aspect to every organization of matter in the Universe.

Panpsychism - Wikipedia

Criticisms of panpsychism is it leads to many bizarre theories that cannot be empirically tested. But who wants to be a “square” living within a box of narrow-minded views? Having a filter of only accepting ideas that can be empirically tested is boring. People who are boring never get invited to parties! Thinking outside the box is the spice of life! I am drawn to panpsychism because it helps me to frame my understanding of what I consider to be some of the more stranger aspects of our experiences being here.

Combine panpsychism with the negentropic principle and the purpose of our Universe and the purpose of evolution is the creation of consciousness so the Universe can experience itself with greater and greater levels of complexity and beauty.

I’ve been thinking about what the source of all our thoughts is and our relationship to it. Many people claim authority about spirituality can only come from somewhere out-there. Somewhere along the line I hooked into the idea of killing the Buddha. For many years I’ve been resonating with the idea absolute authority comes from within with regards to our opinions about God and spirituality.

I don’t mean this is the sense of having an over weaning ego. I don’t mean it in the sense of being an arrogant bully to other people and their beliefs. I mean it the sense each of us is on our own path with our spiritual awakening. No one can take the journey for you. The answer to our spirituality is not out-there. We have everything we need to figure out who we are and our place in the Universe from within. I will go further and make a leap of intuition and say unless you do the hard work yourself you will not successfully achieve the result.

People often use a mirror metaphor to describe the nature of our minds. When our mind is cluttered with emotions and thoughts of this and that our mirror is dirty. We are not able to get a clear vision of who we are when our mirror is dirty. Our connection to the source of all consciousness is clouded by a having a dirty mirror. It’s probably more like lens or a two-mirror where some of the information is coming through from the other side beyond the mirror.

So, I’ve been thinking about this idea where does the source of all our thoughts come from. Many theists have claimed to have had profound experiences which is the reason or cause of their belief in God. I’ve heard people claim there are moments where one feels a presence of something bigger and more transcendent that just our normal experience of reality. I’ve been resonating on the idea that the source of all our thoughts is coming from this transcendent mind. And where things get fouled up is in our interpretation of the signal which gets distorted by our lens or our mirror being dirty.

I’ve been also recently resonating with the idea of the Holy Trinity. The trinity is thought of as three different aspects of the same one God. The Father God part is thought of as the ground of all being. Father God is the ultimate consciousness. Father God is the ultimate source of being. God is the "I am the I am".

Father God is differentiated from two other functions in the World. There is the principle of Form. The principle of Form is known at the Word of God. The Word of God is the division of all things. God divides the whole into parts, light from darkness, Heaven from Earth, etc. The principle of form is also known as the Son where the Son is a separate from Father God.

The third function is the principle of Energy. This is brought about by God speaking or the breath of God. God said, "Let there be light" etc. This is experienced as movement and change. Or the experience of time itself. The breath of God is what flows through all of existence. This is also known as the Holy Spirit.

God is one but composed of all three of these aspects. God is often thought of as being an old man with a long white beard who acts like a tyrant king. I think this is the wrong view. There is a knowable part of God. And then there is an unknowable part of God which transcends all thoughts and experience. Both parts are necessary in understanding the idea of God.

I’ve been resonating with the idea of Apophatic theology or negative theology. With this way of thinking God cannot be defined with words. We can only speak about God in terms of what may not be said about the perfect goodness that is God. This is combined with cataphatic theology which attempts to define the knowable parts of God. The Holy Trinity is composed of a relationship between these two types of theology. I really like this quote as an insight into the nature of God:

"Dionysius describes the kataphatic or affirmative way to the divine as the "way of speech": that we can come to some understanding of the Transcendent by attributing all the perfections of the created order to God as its source. In this sense, we can say "God is Love", "God is Beauty", "God is Good". The apophatic or negative way stresses God's absolute transcendence and unknowability in such a way that we cannot say anything about the divine essence because God is so totally beyond being. The dual concept of the immanence and transcendence of God can help us to understand the simultaneous truth of both "ways" to God: at the same time as God is immanent, God is also transcendent. At the same time as God is knowable, God is also unknowable. God cannot be thought of as one or the other only"

I’ve also been resonating with the philosophical idea called, “unity of opposites.” A unity of opposites is the idea that meaning only can come from having two opposites locked in a field of tension or relationship. This is the idea of the famous Taoist yin-yang symbol.

The unity of opposites is described as a revelation of the oneness of things previously thought to be different as seen in relationship to each other. But from a more transcendent view is the realization the two only have meaning in relationship to each other.

Unity of opposites - Wikipedia

So, I believe the three aspects of God form a unity of opposites. There is dance going on between the principle of form and the principle of energy. And behind it all or transcending it is the Father God part which is the ground of all being.

The ritual of communion is intended to experience the Holy Trinity in the moment. The body of Christ is the word of God, the blood of Christ is the Holy Spirit, and the ritual is meant for us to appreciate or have an experience of the presence of Father God in the moment.
"If you see the Buddha on the road, kill him!"

My understanding of it is that it is the same as Moses gave the teaching to kill a false Prophet:

Deuteronomy - Chapter 18:20-22
20But the prophet who intentionally speaks a word in My name, which I did not command him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.
21Now if you say to yourself, "How will we know the word that the Lord did not speak?"
22If the prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, and the thing does not occur and does not come about, that is the thing the Lord did not speak. The prophet has spoken it wantonly; you shall not be afraid of him.
Devarim - Deuteronomy - Chapter 18 (Parshah Shoftim)

Right, please?

Regards
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
I believe it. People who claim to speak for God kill anyone who stands in their way.

My faith is in an omnipotent God of unconditional love. My faith is stronger than your fear mongering. My God holds everyone in the highest possible esteem, divine, and sacred. Even you!

Where as your god is not strong enough to love everyone. You worship a lesser god of hate.
"hate"

Sorry,I hate nobody. Right,please?

Regards
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
I believe it. People who claim to speak for God kill anyone who stands in their way.

My faith is in an omnipotent God of unconditional love. My faith is stronger than your fear mongering. My God holds everyone in the highest possible esteem, divine, and sacred. Even you!

Where as your god is not strong enough to love everyone. You worship a lesser god of hate.
So, one will not kill a Buddha if one sees one. Right,please?

Regards
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Many philosophical materialists think the brain has no consciousness at all. They believe all matter is just blinding executing the laws of physics without any feedback loops or depth back to God. Here is a good talk on people claiming consciousness is a delusion:


It is neither from the truthful religion nor from science. Why accept it, please?

Regards
 
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