The state of education and the quality of teachers. When is enough is enough?

[Revoltingest]

5th-grade class holds mock slave auction selling black students; authorities investigating

I really don't have words anymore other than we seriously need to go back to basics. Teach the Three R's (Reading, 'R' Writing, and , 'R' Arithmetic )and that's it.

No wonder kids are so screwed up and messed up in the head these days.

If this doesn't raise an alarm to call for teachers to be regularly tested and certified properly for intelligence, proper judgement, and just plain common sense especially when teaching about sensitive areas in our history, I totally don't know what it will take anymore.

Teachers are just plain out of control and the school system is seriously in need of implementing teacher oversight and establishing a proper SOP.

The sad part is teachers are covered by the Teachers Union in New York state, and they are almost impossible to terminate here.

The only interactive historical re-creation I had in social studies and history was making Johnny cakes and sampling other period culinary dishes of the day.

God almighty help us all.

there are 2 different things going on here.
The outrageous one is holding a mock slave auction.
We observe that sensitivity to slavery varies greatly among people.
To some it's history, & the teachers are trying to make it feel somewhat real.
To others it's a very personal pain which requires great circumspection to avoid triggering.
It's bound to happen when cultural changes affect groups differently on different schedules.
But this doesn't strike me as an issue significant to education.

The other thing going on is using class time to do this.
Is it worth it?
Not to me.
But maybe others might find value in making history more interesting.
Should it be extended to every major horrible historical experience, eg,
the wars, Indian genocide, starvation, lynchings? Nah.

 

[dianaiad]

That's weird. Did not know that about the US education system.


There's good and bad types of oversight. Not just more or less.

Yeah....and whether 'oversight' is good or bad depends entirely on, it seems. a group of people who don't know diddly squat about teaching.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Its always funding.

New York's school spending is now 90% above the national average

And teachers here in New York are still complaining there's not enough funding.

It was 67 billion in 2016. That's Billion with a capital B.

Throwing money aimlessly doesn't help, and I'm not saying funding is the ONLY problem. However, it is still the major problem.

 

[SomeRandom]

Referring to the m-cast testing, if students do not pass they cannot graduate, irregardless of having met other requirements, and reflects poorly on the teacher which in turn reflects the teacher's success.

That's depressing.

 

[dianaiad]

Throwing money aimlessly doesn't help, and I'm not saying funding is the ONLY problem. However, it is still the major problem.

Not really. Well, funding might actually be the major problem, but throwing more money at the situation won't help. It is what the money is spent upon.

For instance, HERE, school administrative officers (supervisors, ect.,) get huge salaries, far in excess of what middle management in other areas are paid, and teachers themselves don't get paid anywhere near what the equivalent education and experience would get them in any other industry.

Lots of money gets pumped into the system, but precious little of it goes directly to the teachers for actual 'teaching.' I had to buy a bunch of my own supplies; white board markers, erasers...stuff like that. If I wanted to show a film or project things, I had to buy my own projector. I had to do this more than once, since those things get stolen.

However, I could have handled that. What drove me nuts was the constant instruction from 'on high' about what was politically correct THIS week. The history teachers around me were frustrated, of course. I was constantly on alert; could I teach Huckleberry Finn this semester? If not, which group was objecting? The fundamentalists or the politically correct? How about Harry Potter? What about Beowulf? I had to make certain that every single book I wanted to use was acceptable to everybody....and no book is acceptable to everybody. I had my supervisor tell me to hold off on teaching The Scarlet Letter because some people were objecting to its support of out of wedlock sex, and others were objecting to the vilification of that same out of wedlock sex. Nobody in either group, obviously, had actually read the book.

...........and don't get me started about Huckleberry Finn. I really would have preferred to teach math, if I could have added 4+4 five times running and come up with the same answer every time. The trouble is, the math teachers I know were being interfered with almost as much as the English, History and sociology teachers were, and I don't even want to think about what Civics teachers had to deal with.

ARRRGGGGHHHHH~~~~!!!!!!

Money? Take about half of the money being spent on education right now, use it to hire lawyers to protect the teachers when they actually decide to tell their supervisors to go pile rocks, and you will find that students learn better, faster and more. Teachers have been trained. They've gone to school, they've (usually) served an 'apprenticeship" as student teachers, and they just keep going to school. They never stop learning themselves. So...if people would just get out of their way.....

That would solve pretty much everything, and would really save a lot of money.

 

[Revoltingest]

Throwing money aimlessly doesn't help, and I'm not saying funding is the ONLY problem. However, it is still the major problem.

That would depend where one lives.
In my district, there's plenty of money (teachers making over $100K/year).
Problems I see are inattention to non-college bound students, disciplinary
(eg, punishing victims of violence along with the perps), & dysfunctional
methods, especially in math. These troubles are by design. So giving
the schools more money would just mean better funded problems.

 

[Shad]

In my experience there were mock plays regarding history in normal uniform grade school (1 teacher for all subjects). Typically grades 4-7. If I remember correctly the grade 7 class formed groups of 4-5 students. Each group needed to create a short play of a few minutes based on the current history subject; Egypt, Greece (lots of Alexander the Great plays, etc). The method actually got a number of students interested in drama to the point the school created a club that put on shortened plays for the school. Bram Stroker's Dracula for example. Each character had 2-3 students which switched every play. I think such a teaching method it beneficial not just for the subject itself but as per the above student interest in drama. Drama class up here at for HS and middle-school.

 

[Shad]

Lots of money gets pumped into the system, but precious little of it goes directly to the teachers for actual 'teaching.' I had to buy a bunch of my own supplies; white board markers, erasers...stuff like that. If I wanted to show a film or project things, I had to buy my own projector. I had to do this more than once, since those things get stolen.

Geez. The US puts more into education than Canada but up here all the classes had projection screens. The schools had a number of projectors a class could use. All that was required was a bit of scheduling. Schools had TVs that a class could use be it a static one in the library or one that was on a trolley. Every thing you listed was a basic resource the classroom and school provided to the teachers.

 

[dianaiad]

Geez. The US puts more into education than Canada but up here all the classes had projection screens. The schools had a number of projectors a class could use. All that was required was a bit of scheduling. Schools had TVs that a class could use be it a static one in the library or one that was on a trolley. Every thing you listed was a basic resource the classroom and school provided to the teachers.

...and I will guarantee you that the teachers in Canada also ended up buying their own supplies, in many cases. At least, the Canadian teachers I talk to have done so.

Here, if we are lucky, we have 'smart boards' which work a lot like touch screens on a computer, and which can be programmed to show videos which work off of DVD's or thumbdrives....but when they have problems, they tend not to get fixed.

The odd thing was that I never got one. I asked about that, and was told that they were reserved for the younger, more 'tech savvy' teachers who could be trusted not to break them. I got into teaching later than most people, by several decades, you see. The funny thing was, I was the one who got called to fix them for the newbies.

But that's a digression. We don't NEED 'smart boards' that are too complicated to use reliably. We don't need 'oversight.' We don't need Common Core (that's a swear word, btw) and we don't NEED to have our every move second guessed.

What we need is a set of 'competencies' that the students need to know in order to graduate, and then to be left alone to teach them....AND to decide whether the students have learned them.

 

[Shad]

...and I will guarantee you that the teachers in Canada also ended up buying their own supplies, in many cases. At least, the Canadian teachers I talk to have done so.

They do not buy projection systems.

Here, if we are lucky, we have 'smart boards' which work a lot like touch screens on a computer, and which can be programmed to show videos which work off of DVD's or thumbdrives....but when they have problems, they tend not to get fixed.

The odd thing was that I never got one. I asked about that, and was told that they were reserved for the younger, more 'tech savvy' teachers who could be trusted not to break them. I got into teaching later than most people, by several decades, you see. The funny thing was, I was the one who got called to fix them for the newbies.

But that's a digression. We don't NEED 'smart boards' that are too complicated to use reliably. We don't need 'oversight.' We don't need Common Core (that's a swear word, btw) and we don't NEED to have our every move second guessed.

My reference was based on 2 decades ago of experience.

I am against Common Core as it levels the top and bottom in limbo while restricting the possible education a student can complete.

What we need is a set of 'competencies' that the students need to know in order to graduate, and then to be left alone to teach them....AND to decide whether the students have learned them.

I would add opening classes beyond strict age limits. If a student can work in a math class 2 levels above the average of their age group schools needs to work with the students to make it possible.

 

[SomeRandom]

I am against Common Core as it levels the top and bottom in limbo while restricting the possible education a student can complete.

I'm curious about this. What are some of the drawbacks of Common Core?

 

[Shad]

I'm curious about this. What are some of the drawbacks of Common Core?

The standardized system creates gaps with the lowest and highest students creating issues for those students. For the low end they can not keep up. For those on the high end they become restricted by the age based education plan thus their education is slowed to a point below their capabilities. Those high end students must often take it upon themselves to get the admins to advance a student into the next level of education.

 

[Falvlun]

The problem is that there is too much oversight for teachers. We can't teach what we studied. We have to go by curricula designed by politically correct committees with members who haven't been in a classroom for decades.

I spent, literally, six years getting a California teaching credential in English: four years for a BA, two more for a credential, plus many, many more classes. Getting a master's degree for a California English teacher is generally a matter of....writing a thesis or doing a master level project. The classes are pretty much done already in the credentialing process.

At least, that's how it worked for me.

In all that education, we end up in classrooms where we have NO control over the curriculum, NO control over how we handle the classroom, NO control in the materials we use....

You think we need MORE oversight?

Good grief.

What are your thoughts if there was a single national curriculum? In this case, the teaching degrees would train teachers to a standard curriculum nationwide.

 

[dianaiad]

What are your thoughts if there was a single national curriculum? In this case, the teaching degrees would train teachers to a standard curriculum nationwide.

A single national curriculum.

You mean....like the one being shoved down our throats now?

I'm against it. Teachers have spent as much time training for their jobs as any other...sometimes including medical doctors. We studied, we trained...we know what we are doing. However, the powers that be will not allow us to do our jobs.

What should happen is this: we should be told what the OUTCOME should be; that is, the basic knowledge that must be shown in order to graduate from high school, (and those requirements should be based upon what colleges, trade schools, universities and most employers want to see in beginning workers and students) and then we should be left alone to do our jobs.

Period.