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The Status of Jesus
- Thread starter MyFury
- Start date
.lava
Veteran Member
hi,
Islam doesnot 'generally' accept that. it is written in Qur'an that she was untouched. completely clean.
the son of God idea puts Mary(PBUH) and God together as if they were husband and wife. as God isnot a creature, it is also not male and not human.
Mary(PBUH) was a chosen woman. she was protected from all kinds of evil. she was untouched by all means. she spent her life away from world and its desires. there is no woman higher than her, so she is one unique example for all women. when Gebrail (PBUH) appeared to her and told her God would give her a son -the Messiah, she was surprised. she asked Gebrail(PBUH) how would she have a baby as she was one person who's not even touched by man once. Gebrail(PBUH) said that is easy for God and she already started to carry her son even before they finished their conversation.
ordinary pregnancy is not done by us either. it is God's will. the birth of Jesus (PBUH) of course was a great sign for disbeliever of that time. Jews thought Mary (PBUH) was a liar.that she had an affair. but they couldnot say a word when newborn baby Jesus (PBUH) actually talked to them and said He is the Messiah, the Prophet of God.
Lecter
Fundamentalist
Also just to add a little something... Here's how the Qur'an puts it:
Indeed, the example of Jesus to Allah is like that of Adam. He created Him from dust; then He said to him, "Be," and he was. [3:59]
God created Adam when he had no parents at all, does that mean God is both his parents? Of course not. So if God can easily create someone with no parents, wouldn't it be easier for him to create someone with just one parent? See my point?
.lava
Veteran Member
i don't think we were created when we were born. we did exist before that.
besides, this life here is an exam. for that matter, wife is a subject of exam to her husband and husband also is an exam to his wife. children are as well a matter of learning 'yourself'. all is there as an experience. but of course God could do anything. God also beyond time and therefor God knows if i would end up in hell or in heaven. but it doesnot send me there before i personally earn it.
sallieran
Member
As a Christian, I am curious about some of the responses here. My purpose is not to offend or debate, but to understand because I am ignorant of many of Muslim beliefs.
1. If Muhammed was the primary prophet, the seal and perfect example for all Muslims, wouldn't one of his wives or daughters have been the primary example of a woman instead of Mary the mother of a secondary prophet?
2. It is my understanding that Muslims believe that there are many misinterpretations and deviations from what was origionally there, so do you believe that Mary was a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus? If so, then why would it be important if Jesus was born from a virgin?
3. You refer to Jesus as "messiah." This confuses me greatly because this means "deliverer." As a Christian, I believe that Jesus delivered us from our sins, something that only God could do. Why do you refer to him as messiah?
Thank you for your time in consideration of this post and I appreciate any and all answers to my questions. I'm just very curious.
1. If Muhammed was the primary prophet, the seal and perfect example for all Muslims, wouldn't one of his wives or daughters have been the primary example of a woman instead of Mary the mother of a secondary prophet?
2. It is my understanding that Muslims believe that there are many misinterpretations and deviations from what was origionally there, so do you believe that Mary was a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus? If so, then why would it be important if Jesus was born from a virgin?
3. You refer to Jesus as "messiah." This confuses me greatly because this means "deliverer." As a Christian, I believe that Jesus delivered us from our sins, something that only God could do. Why do you refer to him as messiah?
Thank you for your time in consideration of this post and I appreciate any and all answers to my questions. I'm just very curious.
1) great question, you see there are 4 women examples a) mary mother of jesus
b) asya wife of pharoah,
c) khatija wife of prophet(pbuh)
and fatima daughter of prophet (may allah be pleased with them all
so its not just mary (pbuh)n example for muslim women but that shows that muhhamad(saw) did not just speak of himself, did not give him self all the credit but gave it to those who deserved it
2)yes we believe mary was virgin when she gave birth, this would be a sign of god that when god wants to create something all he says is be and it is. so jesus being born to virgi was something that god willed , its an important belief to muslims
3)according to wikipedia mesiah = annointed one= chosen one , also according to you deliverer so he was the chosen one , he has been chosen to defeat antiChrist before judgment day or he could be the deliverer of the message of god the injeel
cattle are born everyday from virgin cattle, does that make them sons of God?.
God does not beget children.
actually the gospels do not say jesus is the son of God either(at least not anymore than we are all sons of God-psalms 82), the word "monogenes" is intentionally mistranslated as "only begotten son" when the accurate translation is "unique". he was indeed unique.
peace
peace,
1. muhammad was not the primary prophet, he was the seal of the prophets, "the prophet" as prophesized in the torah; the "helper", the "spirit of truth" jesus tells us will come after him (john15:26). it was typical of prophets to announce the next prophet, as john announced jesus. the quran tells us to make no difference between the prophets, and muhammad taught there were 124,000 prophets.
2.she was a virgin when jesus was born, but had other children after that. surah 19 is called 'mary'.
3. he is the one annointed by God, he specifically taught against animal sacrifice (humans are animals), as did many prophets for hundreds of years before him. the murder of an innocent human is forbidden by God and the prophets, so this could not logically be a way of removing sins, but it would instead add another sin. our good deeds with a selfless intention deliver us from sins, following the law, as jesus told us (matthew 5:17-19), delivers us from sins. doing what God tells us to do, through prophets and messengers, delivers us from sins. so his teachings can deliver us from sins if they are followed, but his claimed murder on the cross cannot deliver anyone from sins. jesus will come back in the end times with another(elijah, john, mahdi or whatever name you prefer to give him) to remove evil from earth.
wa peace
DallasApple
Depends Upon My Mood..
Mary got pregnant..
She had Jesus...
He lived a life of no sin..
He was tortured and cucified for us..
Dallas
She had Jesus...
He lived a life of no sin..
He was tortured and cucified for us..
Dallas
actually, islam does not teach that murder is the way to salvation, that is a teaching of christianity(a teaching of paul of tarsus, the dajjal murder and persecutor of the muslim followers of jesus). islam teaches against murder, just as jesus, a muslim, taught against it. the quran specifically says that jesus was not killed when christians say he was crucified.
to say that murder atones for sin is illogical, satanic, and anti-christ (since jesus christ specifically taught against murder and animal/human sacrifice-as did prophets for many years before him, as is clear in the bible).
peace
OutOfTime
Active Member
yeah i never thought about it like that, makes perfect sense. so that interests me. i've heard about this before, why don't muslims believe jesus was killed? what do they believe happened to him?
lilithu
The Devil's Advocate
God would never have allowed such an injustice to occur.
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/general-religious-debates/65351-surah-4-157-did-jesus-die.html
God did not Create Adam.
He begot Adam...and the Q'uran specifically rejects the idea that God Begot anyone, it is said in the Q'uran that "God does not beget nor is he gotten".
This is SO FUNDAMENTALLY important in the differences between Islam and Christianity.
Regardless of what you are told...Islam rejects the idea that Man is like God in the way a son is like his father.
Christianity embraces this idea...and states also that God begot Christ.
you believe adam was begotten but begetting is an animal act . we believe he was created
Well I want to be careful that we aren't also getting "lost in translation"
I think the word begotten as we understand it may not mean the animal act of sex...but the idea of creating something as yourself, like you have created a child, it is not a half-monkey half-dog child, it is another human...that is begetting...the act of sex is irrelevant.
Creating is like...I make a statue, it may look like me, it may even have an expression...but it is not a human...that is creation...I making something that isn't me.
And it is the fundamental belief of Abrahamic religions that God made man in His image...that is begetting...He created the Universe...see the difference?
Now if Islam rejects the idea that he Begot us - it would be along the lines that they refuse to think that men are in fact exactly like God except not as much as God as himself...
They would argue that we are no different than any of his other creations...and therefore we have no relation with God other than we are his subjects.
That may very well be the case with Islam, and if it is so it is plainly a bad idea to have...it removes any responsibility from mankind other than that responsibility imposed upon us by some imaginary figure that is dreamed-up by our religious leaders.
It's a fundamentally philosophical problem in the idea of Islam.
the thing is your trying to prove the quraan wrong using the bible, you can't do that what you ahve to do is bring another source from outside to check which book is correct eg. check is the book compatible with modern science
Can I ask you back why christian believe Jesus was die and being crucified? Yeah, muslim strongly believe Jesus was not killed and God replace him with someone who betray him. That person look alike Jesus but he is not real Jesus. The real Jesus already taken by God and one day God will bring back Jesus to the world.
Just wanted to show you people a piece of information that shows that Jesus was not the only man to be born of a virgin mother.
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] T. W. Rhys Davids, M.A. Ph.D. [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif](Society for Promoting Christian Knowledge, London, 1887) writes in his book [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Buddhism [/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Buddha's mother is said to be a virgin. Page 183. His mother was the best and purest of the daughters of men. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Note: At the bottom of page 183, Davids quotes St. Jerome. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]St. Jerome says (Contra Sovian bk. I): It is handed down as a tradition among the Gymnososophists of India that Buddha, the founder of their system, was brought forth by a virgin from her side. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT]
Cheers
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] T. W. Rhys Davids, M.A. Ph.D. [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif](Society for Promoting Christian Knowledge, London, 1887) writes in his book [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Buddhism [/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Buddha's mother is said to be a virgin. Page 183. His mother was the best and purest of the daughters of men. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Note: At the bottom of page 183, Davids quotes St. Jerome. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]St. Jerome says (Contra Sovian bk. I): It is handed down as a tradition among the Gymnososophists of India that Buddha, the founder of their system, was brought forth by a virgin from her side. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT]
Cheers