The Strange Thing about Creationism

[painted wolf]

Maybe you could suggest a mechanism that prevents changes at the species level from accumulating into changes at the genus, family, order, class, phylum, kingdom and domain levels.

I'm also keenly interested in this question.

This is the single biggest problem for creationism IMHO, the total lack of any biological mechanism making it necessary.

wa:do

 

[idav]

Maybe you could suggest a mechanism that prevents changes at the species level from accumulating into changes at the genus, family, order, class, phylum, kingdom and domain levels.

There isn't anything that can prevent that. Sequences can change without having to be inherited. Heres one example and I'm sure there are other ways also. I thought I saw Shermana claim somewhere in this thread that new sequences cannot occur.

A single nucleotide difference within DNA can cause a change in the amino acid sequence of a protein. Because protein structures are the result of their amino acid sequences, some changes can dramatically change the properties of a protein by destabilizing the structure or changing the surface of the protein in a way that changes its interaction with other proteins and molecules. For example, sickle-cell anemia is a human genetic disease that results from a single base difference within the coding region for the β-globin section of hemoglobin, causing a single amino acid change that changes hemoglobin's physical properties.[48] Sickle-cell versions of hemoglobin stick to themselves, stacking to form fibers that distort the shape of red blood cells carrying the protein. These sickle-shaped cells no longer flow smoothly through blood vessels, having a tendency to clog or degrade, causing the medical problems associated with this disease.

Genetics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

edit: Commonly referred to as a mutation.

 

[idav]

Here is more on mutation.

During the process of DNA replication, errors occasionally occur in the polymerization of the second strand. These errors, called mutations, can have an impact on the phenotype of an organism, especially if they occur within the protein coding sequence of a gene. Error rates are usually very low—1 error in every 10–100 million bases—due to the "proofreading" ability of DNA polymerases.[56][57] (Without proofreading error rates are a thousandfold higher; because many viruses rely on DNA and RNA polymerases that lack proofreading ability, they experience higher mutation rates.) Processes that increase the rate of changes in DNA are called mutagenic: mutagenic chemicals promote errors in DNA replication, often by interfering with the structure of base-pairing, while UV radiation induces mutations by causing damage to the DNA structure.[58] Chemical damage to DNA occurs naturally as well, and cells use DNA repair mechanisms to repair mismatches and breaks in DNA—nevertheless, the repair sometimes fails to return the DNA to its original sequence.
In organisms that use chromosomal crossover to exchange DNA and recombine genes, errors in alignment during meiosis can also cause mutations.[59] Errors in crossover are especially likely when similar sequences cause partner chromosomes to adopt a mistaken alignment; this makes some regions in genomes more prone to mutating in this way. These errors create large structural changes in DNA sequence—duplications, inversions or deletions of entire regions, or the accidental exchanging of whole parts between different chromosomes (called translocation).
And more.

Mutation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Shermana]

Here is one article (will post more later) that discusses the "Speed Limits" of evolution.

Speed Limit To The Pace Of Evolution, Biologists Say

Penn researchers presented a theory of how the fitness of a population will increase over time, for a total of 14 types of underlying landscapes or "speed limits" that describe the consequences of available genetic mutations

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[Kilgore Trout]

At the end of the day, until they can show a kiwi giving birth to an armadillo, evolution is nothing but a theory.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

At the end of the day, until they can show a kiwi giving birth to an armadillo, evolution is nothing but a theory.

And as we all know..."A theory is just a guess".....LOL!

 

[painted wolf]

Here is one article (will post more later) that discusses the "Speed Limits" of evolution.

Speed Limit To The Pace Of Evolution, Biologists Say

.

"speed limits" doesn't include stop.

wa:do

 

[camanintx]

Here is one article (will post more later) that discusses the "Speed Limits" of evolution.

Speed Limit To The Pace Of Evolution, Biologists Say

.

A speed limit is not the same as a stop sign.

 

[CaptainBritain]

"speed limits" doesn't include stop.

wa:do

So would you say in your ooooh so expert opinion that speed limits means evolution is a long slow process? lol

 

[painted wolf]

So would you say in your ooooh so expert opinion that speed limits means evolution is a long slow process? lol

Depends on the circumstances.... K vs. R selection, selective pressures, mode of reproduction.... anyway, you get the idea.

They had 14 general criteria that determine evolutionary speed in E.coli alone.

wa:do

 

[Gunfingers]

Depends on the circumstances.... K vs. R selection, selective pressures, mode of reproduction.... anyway, you get the idea.

They had 14 general criteria that determine evolutionary speed in E.coli alone.

wa:do

I feel like this post might give someone the mistaken impression that evolution is an extremely complicated process, and that people can dedicate their whole lives to its study and never fully understand it. And as we all know, a person who has read a few creationist articles knows as much as, if not more than, the experts in the field, so that's clearly ridiculous.

 

[CaptainBritain]

I feel like this post might give someone the mistaken impression that evolution is an extremely complicated process, and that people can dedicate their whole lives to its study and never fully understand it. And as we all know, a person who has read a few creationist articles knows as much as, if not more than, the experts in the field, so that's clearly ridiculous.

bbbut the Bible says there are Unicorns, if evolution is true then where are all the Unicorn fossils hmmm...hmmm!:angel2:

 

[painted wolf]

I feel like this post might give someone the mistaken impression that evolution is an extremely complicated process, and that people can dedicate their whole lives to its study and never fully understand it. And as we all know, a person who has read a few creationist articles knows as much as, if not more than, the experts in the field, so that's clearly ridiculous.

The classic problem of Dunning-Kruger.

wa:do

 

[idav]

bbbut the Bible says there are Unicorns, if evolution is true then where are all the Unicorn fossils hmmm...hmmm!:angel2:

Uh...that was a mistranslation or something. Probably just meant a unihorned animal of some sort.
[youtube]tqVpyuBU09Q[/youtube]
YouTube - ‪Unicorn‬‏

 

[David M]

(As opposed to genetic defects which is 100% of the observed mutation rate.)

More ignorance on show here, beneficial mutations have been observed.

You apparently haven't read anything I wrote, those are all examples of MICRO-evolution, they in no way show radical changes to other forms.

More ignorance, as the Theory of Evolution neither suggests nor requires radical changes to other forms.

 

[Shermana]

More ignorance on show here, beneficial mutations have been observed.



More ignorance, as the Theory of Evolution neither suggests nor requires radical changes to other forms.

Right, developing wings, lungs, fins, and weight-bearing legs (as in fully supportive of weight on land for stable land movements), along with echolocation and lactation doesn't involve a radical change. The bat's rogue finger just gradually developed. The Caterpillar's transition to cocooning I'm assuming was gradual too.

Please show these beneficial mutations that have been observed.

 

[Shermana]

Here you go, please demonstrate how a single one of these has anything to do with the cellular setup of Kingdom Animalia.

Examples of Beneficial Mutations and Natural Selection

If not, I can meet you halfway at least. Lots of microevolution at work here! I question the use of the word "Mutation" in some of these cases too.

 

[painted wolf]

Right, developing wings, lungs, fins, and weight-bearing legs (as in fully supportive of weight on land for stable land movements), along with echolocation and lactation doesn't involve a radical change. The bat's rogue finger just gradually developed. The Caterpillar's transition to cocooning I'm assuming was gradual too.

Please show these beneficial mutations that have been observed.

I take it you don't know about Hox genes and their function.

wa:do

 

[painted wolf]

Here you go, please demonstrate how a single one of these has anything to do with the cellular setup of Kingdom Animalia.

Examples of Beneficial Mutations and Natural Selection

If not, I can meet you halfway at least. Lots of microevolution at work here! I question the use of the word "Mutation" in some of these cases too.

How is it the ability of cells to function have nothing to with cellular set up?

Why should these have to do with leading to animalia? Animalia isn't a finish line that modern single celled organisms are trying to cross. We aren't going to observe modern single celled organisms becoming us.

It seems like your problem is asking the right questions and understanding why your current questions are fallacious.

wa:do

ps. you notice they use both the terms mutations and natural selection.... not just mutation

 

[idav]

Please show these beneficial mutations that have been observed.

Beneficial is all relative to the environment it is in and any natural predators it might come across.