The Ten Commandments

[Cuthberta]

What if the United States were, as a nation, to publicly post everywhere copies of the Ten Commandments because a number of Americans believe that America is a nation founded on "Judeo-Christian" values.

What version of the ten commandments?

I've been searching for the commandment that says, as I was obliged to memorize it in my blameless and innocent youth, "Honor thy father and thy mother that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God hath given thee."

At first, I thought it was the Fifth Commandment, but the Roman Catholic Church says the Fifth Commandment commands:

"You shall not kill."

http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a5.htm

So I tried for the Sixth Commandment but the RC disagreed again:

"You shall not commit adultery."

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_cs...m/p3s2c2a6.htm

But an unidentified Protestant agency says the Sixth Commandment is:

"You shall not kill."

http://www.keyway.ca/htm2003/20030323.htm

And, I guess the Jews sort of agree that the Fifth Commandment does say:

"Thou shalt honour your father and your mother..."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments

But, I'll bet those Jewish folks muck it up and don't say it THE WAY I WAS TAUGHT TO SAY IT.

And, those Jewish folk have the audacity to say that the Sixth Commandment commands:

"Thou shalt not murder," which kind of muddles the intent of the RC commandment and then the Seventh Commandment says what the RC Sixth Commandment says, sort of:

"Thou shalt not commit adultery."

You know, this religious confusion about which commandment is which is driving me nuts!

 

[Deut 13:1]

Might I suggest, that you, as someone who cares so much about the Ten Commandments and HaShem, possibly learn some Hebrew and read it yourself. It might clarify and eliminate some of your delusions about the text. Of course, maybe I'm wrong, and you don't care about the Ten Commandments and just want to mock religious people.

 

[Booko]

Might I suggest, that you, as someone who cares so much about the Ten Commandments and HaShem, possibly learn some Hebrew and read it yourself. It might clarify and eliminate some of your delusions about the text. Of course, maybe I'm wrong, and you don't care about the Ten Commandments and just want to mock religious people.

I thought she was more mocking the idea that certain religious people think their religion is more important than anyone else's, and so think they can break civil law any time they believe God is telling them something else.

But that aside, hm, a solution to this posting the 10 Commandments just occured to me while reading your post.

Let's go ahead and post them -- in Hebrew. That way there are no translation errors.

Nothing like going straight to the source, eh?

 

[Sunstone]

Might I suggest, that you, as someone who cares so much about the Ten Commandments and HaShem, possibly learn some Hebrew and read it yourself. It might clarify and eliminate some of your delusions about the text. Of course, maybe I'm wrong, and you don't care about the Ten Commandments and just want to mock religious people.

Might I suggest you read RF Rule #4 which prohibits rude, insulting, or inflammatory posts? Then, after you've read it, please reflect on whether an apology is in order. It is, after all, completely unnecessary to ascribe unsubstantiated motives to people, let alone imply they are delusional.

 

[finalfrogo]

I don't even understand why people insist on having them--whichever version--posted. The morals presented in the commandments are as much ingrained into the secular part of American culture as the religious part. I don't need to be a reminded that I'm not suppose to kill or steal or cheat. Is a murder going to abstain from killing just because he sees "Thou shall not murder" everywhere?

 

[Booko]

I don't even understand why people insist on having them--whichever version--posted. The morals presented in the commandments are as much ingrained into the secular part of American culture as the religious part. I don't need to be a reminded that I'm not suppose to kill or steal or cheat. Is a murder going to abstain from killing just because he sees "Thou shall not murder" everywhere?

You mean like schools that decide that this month's value is "Respect" and hang posters all over, but when you go in you hear many insulting remarks containing the term "gay"?

Of course, the staff can't be bothered to act on any of those remarks.

 

[Deut 13:1]

Let's go ahead and post them -- in Hebrew. That way there are no translation errors.

Nothing like going straight to the source, eh?

Okay.

Shemot Yisro
אָנֹכִי יְהוָה אֱלֹהֶיךָ, אֲשֶׁר הוֹצֵאתִיךָ מֵאֶרֶץ מִצְרַיִם מִבֵּית עֲבָדִים: לֹא-יִהְיֶה לְךָ אֱלֹהִים אֲחֵרִים, עַל-פָּנָי
לֹא-תַעֲשֶׂה לְךָ פֶסֶל, וְכָל-תְּמוּנָה, אֲשֶׁר בַּשָּׁמַיִם מִמַּעַל, וַאֲשֶׁר בָּאָרֶץ מִתָּחַת--וַאֲשֶׁר בַּמַּיִם, מִתַּחַת לָאָרֶץ
לֹא-תִשְׁתַּחֲוֶה לָהֶם, וְלֹא תָעָבְדֵם: כִּי אָנֹכִי יְהוָה אֱלֹהֶיךָ, אֵל קַנָּא--פֹּקֵד עֲו‍ֹן אָבֹת עַל-בָּנִים עַל-שִׁלֵּשִׁים וְעַל-רִבֵּעִים, לְשֹׂנְאָי
וְעֹשֶׂה חֶסֶד, לַאֲלָפִים--לְאֹהֲבַי, וּלְשֹׁמְרֵי מִצְו‍ֹתָי
לֹא תִשָּׂא אֶת-שֵׁם-יְהוָה אֱלֹהֶיךָ, לַשָּׁוְא: כִּי לֹא יְנַקֶּה יְהוָה, אֵת אֲשֶׁר-יִשָּׂא אֶת-שְׁמוֹ לַשָּׁוְא
זָכוֹר אֶת-יוֹם הַשַּׁבָּת, לְקַדְּשׁוֹ
שֵׁשֶׁת יָמִים תַּעֲבֹד, וְעָשִׂיתָ כָּל-מְלַאכְתֶּךָ
וְיוֹם, הַשְּׁבִיעִי--שַׁבָּת, לַיהוָה אֱלֹהֶיךָ: לֹא-תַעֲשֶׂה כָל-מְלָאכָה אַתָּה וּבִנְךָ וּבִתֶּךָ, עַבְדְּךָ וַאֲמָתְךָ וּבְהֶמְתֶּךָ, וְגֵרְךָ, אֲשֶׁר בִּשְׁעָרֶיךָ
כִּי שֵׁשֶׁת-יָמִים עָשָׂה יְהוָה אֶת-הַשָּׁמַיִם וְאֶת-הָאָרֶץ, אֶת-הַיָּם וְאֶת-כָּל-אֲשֶׁר-בָּם, וַיָּנַח, בַּיּוֹם הַשְּׁבִיעִי; עַל-כֵּן, בֵּרַךְ יְהוָה אֶת-יוֹם הַשַּׁבָּת--וַיְקַדְּשֵׁהוּ
כַּבֵּד אֶת-אָבִיךָ, וְאֶת-אִמֶּךָ--לְמַעַן, יַאֲרִכוּן יָמֶיךָ, עַל הָאֲדָמָה, אֲשֶׁר-יְהוָה אֱלֹהֶיךָ נֹתֵן לָךְ
לֹא תִרְצָח, לֹא תִנְאָף; לֹא תִגְנֹב, לֹא-תַעֲנֶה בְרֵעֲךָ עֵד שָׁקֶרלֹא תַחְמֹד, בֵּית רֵעֶךָ; לֹא-תַחְמֹד אֵשֶׁת רֵעֶךָ, וְעַבְדּוֹ וַאֲמָתוֹ וְשׁוֹרוֹ וַחֲמֹרוֹ, וְכֹל, אֲשֶׁר לְרֵעֶךָ

There is Exodus 20:2-13.

To Cuthberta: I sincerely apologize for mocking a post, which I did believe to have no substance, obviously as per Sunstone, I was wrong. However, you seem to be having trouble w/ the ten commandments, so which aspects bother you??? Is it that oh so tough and tricky word ratsach I bolded for you??

 

[Cuthberta]

I thought she was more mocking the idea that certain religious people think their religion is more important than anyone else's, and so think they can break civil law any time they believe God is telling them something else.

But that aside, hm, a solution to this posting the 10 Commandments just occured to me while reading your post.

Let's go ahead and post them -- in Hebrew. That way there are no translation errors.

Nothing like going straight to the source, eh?

Excellent point, Booko.

 

[Cuthberta]

Okay.

Shemot Yisro
אָנֹכִי יְהוָה אֱלֹהֶיךָ, אֲשֶׁר הוֹצֵאתִיךָ מֵאֶרֶץ מִצְרַיִם מִבֵּית עֲבָדִים: לֹא-יִהְיֶה לְךָ אֱלֹהִים אֲחֵרִים, עַל-פָּנָי
לֹא-תַעֲשֶׂה לְךָ פֶסֶל, וְכָל-תְּמוּנָה, אֲשֶׁר בַּשָּׁמַיִם מִמַּעַל, וַאֲשֶׁר בָּאָרֶץ מִתָּחַת--וַאֲשֶׁר בַּמַּיִם, מִתַּחַת לָאָרֶץ
לֹא-תִשְׁתַּחֲוֶה לָהֶם, וְלֹא תָעָבְדֵם: כִּי אָנֹכִי יְהוָה אֱלֹהֶיךָ, אֵל קַנָּא--פֹּקֵד עֲו‍ֹן אָבֹת עַל-בָּנִים עַל-שִׁלֵּשִׁים וְעַל-רִבֵּעִים, לְשֹׂנְאָי
וְעֹשֶׂה חֶסֶד, לַאֲלָפִים--לְאֹהֲבַי, וּלְשֹׁמְרֵי מִצְו‍ֹתָי
לֹא תִשָּׂא אֶת-שֵׁם-יְהוָה אֱלֹהֶיךָ, לַשָּׁוְא: כִּי לֹא יְנַקֶּה יְהוָה, אֵת אֲשֶׁר-יִשָּׂא אֶת-שְׁמוֹ לַשָּׁוְא
זָכוֹר אֶת-יוֹם הַשַּׁבָּת, לְקַדְּשׁוֹ
שֵׁשֶׁת יָמִים תַּעֲבֹד, וְעָשִׂיתָ כָּל-מְלַאכְתֶּךָ
וְיוֹם, הַשְּׁבִיעִי--שַׁבָּת, לַיהוָה אֱלֹהֶיךָ: לֹא-תַעֲשֶׂה כָל-מְלָאכָה אַתָּה וּבִנְךָ וּבִתֶּךָ, עַבְדְּךָ וַאֲמָתְךָ וּבְהֶמְתֶּךָ, וְגֵרְךָ, אֲשֶׁר בִּשְׁעָרֶיךָ
כִּי שֵׁשֶׁת-יָמִים עָשָׂה יְהוָה אֶת-הַשָּׁמַיִם וְאֶת-הָאָרֶץ, אֶת-הַיָּם וְאֶת-כָּל-אֲשֶׁר-בָּם, וַיָּנַח, בַּיּוֹם הַשְּׁבִיעִי; עַל-כֵּן, בֵּרַךְ יְהוָה אֶת-יוֹם הַשַּׁבָּת--וַיְקַדְּשֵׁהוּ
כַּבֵּד אֶת-אָבִיךָ, וְאֶת-אִמֶּךָ--לְמַעַן, יַאֲרִכוּן יָמֶיךָ, עַל הָאֲדָמָה, אֲשֶׁר-יְהוָה אֱלֹהֶיךָ נֹתֵן לָךְ
לֹא תִרְצָח, לֹא תִנְאָף; לֹא תִגְנֹב, לֹא-תַעֲנֶה בְרֵעֲךָ עֵד שָׁקֶרלֹא תַחְמֹד, בֵּית רֵעֶךָ; לֹא-תַחְמֹד אֵשֶׁת רֵעֶךָ, וְעַבְדּוֹ וַאֲמָתוֹ וְשׁוֹרוֹ וַחֲמֹרוֹ, וְכֹל, אֲשֶׁר לְרֵעֶךָ

There is Exodus 20:2-13.

To Cuthberta: I sincerely apologize for mocking a post, which I did believe to have no substance, obviously as per Sunstone, I was wrong. However, you seem to be having trouble w/ the ten commandments, so which aspects bother you??? Is it that oh so tough and tricky word ratsach I bolded for you??

Ratsach, in reference to "Thou shalt not kill," I gather that the critical word is "kill," not "murder" as some would have it? Was that the original intent of the Deity, to forbid "killing" as opposed to "murdering"?

 

[kateyes]

The intent of the commandment would seem to have more relevence to not "murdering" vs not "killing". This commandment came from the same God that accepted blood sacrifice, and ordered the slaughter of the amalikites (down to the smallest child) and who certainly felt no compunction about doing killing himself (Sodom and Gomorrah, and the great flood).

I think if we are going to post any type of religious law--perhaps the Golden Rule "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you," is more universal across religions--and pretty much covers the intent of the 10 commandents in few words.

Also not everyone feels the basis for this nation was Judeo-Christian principles.

 

[Booko]

Ratsach, in reference to "Thou shalt not kill," I gather that the critical word is "kill," not "murder" as some would have it? Was that the original intent of the Deity, to forbid "killing" as opposed to "murdering"?

Considering the Torah obviously allows "killing" as in "execution under the authority of the state," it seems rather silly to have it rendered "thou shalt not kill" doesn't it?

 

[Booko]

Also not everyone feels the basis for this nation was Judeo-Christian principles.

I would argue that even if it were so, we frequently criticize Muslim nations for acting on their religious values. We criticize them for not being pluralistic enough and say they shouldn't be theocracies.

If that's the case, then I guess if we insist the basis for this nation is Judeo-Christian values, then we'd better shut up about those who found their states on religious values, lest we be considered hypocrites.

 

[Deut 13:1]

Ratsach, in reference to "Thou shalt not kill," I gather that the critical word is "kill," not "murder" as some would have it? Was that the original intent of the Deity, to forbid "killing" as opposed to "murdering"?

Do you take comfort in numbers??? Every single bible that has ratsach as kill is wrong. Period. It's closer to murder but even that isn't a perfect translation. The closest translation would be to murder you like a wild animal.

 

[Quiddity]

This is how RC's take the 5th commandment.

2261 Scripture specifies the prohibition contained in the fifth commandment: "Do not slay the innocent and the righteous."61 The deliberate murder of an innocent person is gravely contrary to the dignity of the human being, to the golden rule, and to the holiness of the Creator. The law forbidding it is universally valid: it obliges each and everyone, always and everywhere.