The Thorn in Paul's Flesh

[Pegg]

The Thorn in Paul's Flesh



The Thorn in Paul's Flesh - II Corinthians 12:7-10

That was a condition, which Paul would call it an infirmity. For three times, as he said, he prayed God, so that it be removed from him, but that it had been denied on the basis that what seemed weakness to him, his spiritual strength would be made perfect.

Paul was suffering from Epilepsy, whose aftereffects would cause him a devasting condition of depression.

Epilepsy is a condition which has the characteristic to awake in the epileptic the esoteric sense of spirituality, and to bring up to mind what was spiritually
disturbing the mind, as the condition derives from a neurologic disorder characterized by sudden recurring attacks of motor, sensory or psychic malfunction with or without loss of consciousness or convulsive seizures.

During an attack of epilepsy, sparkles of light are perceived in the mind as to make the person with the condition embelish what it was concerning him or her as to admit a literal fulfilment of what was only a matter of the imagination.

When Paul went for letters in Jerusalem to arrest and bring under chains those in the synagogues of Damascus who followed "the New Way," which was a reference to the Nazarenes followers of Jesus. Halfway, on the Road to Damascus, he was taken by an attack of epilepsy and fell from his horse. During such an attack, he would experience sparkles of light fleshed into his mind, as such effects are usual in epilepsy, and he would experience the rehearse of everything that was in his mind just prior to the attack, which caused in Paul a change of mind. Instead of persecuting the disciples of Jesus physically, just to see them rather grow in number, he would change his strategy and fight them from within by join the Sect of the Nazarenes at his return to Jerusalem. But he was rejected by the Apostles due to his history of violence towards the Nazarenes.

Paul was certainly not rejected by the Apostles. The many letters written by Paul are attested to by the other apostles. The Apostle Peter wrote this about Paul:

2Peter 3:15*Furthermore, consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul according to the wisdom given him also wrote YOU, 16*speaking about these things as he does also in all [his] letters. In them, however, are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unsteady are twisting, as [they do] also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Since epileptic attacks cause the sense of materialization of one's imaginations, as Paul came to complete consciousness, he seemed to be a different man with the fantastic claim that he had spoken with Jesus during his epileptical seizures, and decided to join the Sect of the Nazarenes. However, instead of returning to Jerusalem from the Road to Damascus, he proceeded to Damascus where he stayed for three years, perhaps with the intent to acquire some history of peaceful coexistence with the disciples of the Nazarenes before returning to Jerusalem as "new" man. From then on, everything he experienced in his attacks of epilepsy, he would interpret it and follow it like in a prophetic vision.

the ailment of Paul is not mentioned in the scriptures. He calls it a 'thorn' which is usually small and agrivating, but not something causing serious injury.

The most likely ailment Paul suffered was poor vision. It could have been the result of the flashing light he experienced along the road to damascus. We learn of his sight problem in a few verses:

Acts 23:1-5 Looking intently at the San′he·drin Paul said: “Men, brothers, I have behaved before God with a perfectly clear conscience down to this day.” 2*At this the high priest An·a·ni′as ordered those standing by him to strike him on the mouth. 3*Then Paul said to him: “God is going to strike you, you whitewashed wall. Do you at one and the same time sit to judge me in accord with the Law and, transgressing the Law, command me to be struck?” 4*Those standing by said: “Are you reviling the high priest of God?” 5*And Paul said: “Brothers, I did not know he was high priest. For it is written, ‘You must not speak injuriously of a ruler of your people.’”
Paul was standing before the sandhedrin and he did not clearly discern who the person was ordering that he be slapped. The high priest usually wore the garments identifying him...so Paul must not have clearly been able to see this.


He also specifically mentions his 'eyes' at Galatians:

Galatians 4:14*And what was a trial to YOU in my flesh, YOU did not treat with contempt or spit at in disgust; but YOU received me like an angel of God, like Christ Jesus. 15*Where, then, is that happiness YOU had? For I bear YOU witness that, if it had been possible, YOU would have gouged out YOUR eyes and given them to me.



And then there is the description he gives of writing in large letters by his own hand which may indicate that he wrote in such a way because he could not see very well:

Galatians 6:11*SEE with what large letters I have written YOU with my own hand

Being rejected by the Apostles, after a havoc he caused in Jerusalem, he was sent back to Tarsus, where he belonged, and decided to found his own religion. Since he had always been a Hellenistic Jew, and well-educated in Hellenism, he founded Christianitity on the basis of his Hellenistic concepts, which, of course would not miss to crash with Judaism, and turn the fight into the famous Pauline policy of Replacement Theology.

Ben

Acts 15:22*Then the apostles and the older men together with the whole congregation favored sending chosen men from among them to Antioch along with Paul and Bar′na·bas, namely, Judas who was called Bar′sab·bas and Silas, leading men among the brothers; 23*and by their hand they wrote:
“The apostles and the older men, brothers, to those brothers in Antioch and Syria and Ci·li′cia who are from the nations: Greetings! 24*Since we have heard that some from among us have caused YOU trouble with speeches, trying to subvert YOUR souls, although we did not give them any instructions, 25*we have come to a unanimous accord and have favored choosing men to send to YOU together with our loved ones, Bar′na·bas and Paul, 26*men that have delivered up their souls for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27*We are therefore dispatching Judas and Silas, that they also may report the same things by word.



It certainly doesnt sound like Paul was rejected by the apostles. If he was rejected, there is no way he would have been sent as a representative of the Jerusalem congregation.

 

[2ndpillar]

The Thorn in Paul's Flesh



The Thorn in Paul's Flesh - II Corinthians 12:7-10

That was a condition, which Paul would call it an infirmity. For three times, as he said, he prayed God, so that it be removed from him, but that it had been denied on the basis that what seemed weakness to him, his spiritual strength would be made perfect.

Paul was suffering from Epilepsy, whose aftereffects would cause him a devasting condition of depression.

Epilepsy is a condition which has the characteristic to awake in the epileptic the esoteric sense of spirituality, and to bring up to mind what was spiritually
disturbing the mind, as the condition derives from a neurologic disorder characterized by sudden recurring attacks of motor, sensory or psychic malfunction with or without loss of consciousness or convulsive seizures.

During an attack of epilepsy, sparkles of light are perceived in the mind as to make the person with the condition embelish what it was concerning him or her as to admit a literal fulfilment of what was only a matter of the imagination.

When Paul went for letters in Jerusalem to arrest and bring under chains those in the synagogues of Damascus who followed "the New Way," which was a reference to the Nazarenes followers of Jesus. Halfway, on the Road to Damascus, he was taken by an attack of epilepsy and fell from his horse. During such an attack, he would experience sparkles of light fleshed into his mind, as such effects are usual in epilepsy, and he would experience the rehearse of everything that was in his mind just prior to the attack, which caused in Paul a change of mind. Instead of persecuting the disciples of Jesus physically, just to see them rather grow in number, he would change his strategy and fight them from within by join the Sect of the Nazarenes at his return to Jerusalem. But he was rejected by the Apostles due to his history of violence towards the Nazarenes.

Since epileptic attacks cause the sense of materialization of one's imaginations, as Paul came to complete consciousness, he seemed to be a different man with the fantastic claim that he had spoken with Jesus during his epileptical seizures, and decided to join the Sect of the Nazarenes. However, instead of returning to Jerusalem from the Road to Damascus, he proceeded to Damascus where he stayed for three years, perhaps with the intent to acquire some history of peaceful coexistence with the disciples of the Nazarenes before returning to Jerusalem as "new" man. From then on, everything he experienced in his attacks of epilepsy, he would interpret it and follow it like in a prophetic vision.

Being rejected by the Apostles, after a havoc he caused in Jerusalem, he was sent back to Tarsus, where he belonged, and decided to found his own religion. Since he had always been a Hellenistic Jew, and well-educated in Hellenism, he founded Christianitity on the basis of his Hellenistic concepts, which, of course would not miss to crash with Judaism, and turn the fight into the famous Pauline policy of Replacement Theology.

Ben

Dear Ben,
Although Paul was indeed a self professed apostle and prophet, who was accurately described in Mt 7:15-23 as a "false prophet", who performed miracles, and WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS", I am not sure you can blame it all on a disease. That is like saying obesity and alcoholism are solely caused by a disease. I think in Mt 13, that the cause of failure is divided between nurture and nature. Good seed versus seeds of tares. Good ground versus rocks. As a son of Benjamin, Paul had Gen 49:27, against him in terms of nature, in as much as the false prophet would be as a "ravenous wolf" (the description of the false prophets). Plus, being he was probably short, over weight, and bald, probably gave him a Napoleon complex. His being a Roman from Taurus, surely gave him a nurture problem as well. Being sick, seems more in the terms of if you sin the Holy Spirit leaves, and demons come.

 

[Benoni]

I see Paul as the most spiritual carnal man in the Bible, David I would put in second place. The thorn in his flesh i am sure was put there by God as a balancing act as a fleshly man to show Paul even though he was a deep man of God, he also was still in a body and mind of the flesh. David was not perfect either. What carnal man is?

 

[2ndpillar]

I see Paul as the most spiritual carnal man in the Bible, David I would put in second place. The thorn in his flesh i am sure was put there by God as a balancing act as a fleshly man to show Paul even though he was a deep man of God, he also was still in a body and mind of the flesh. David was not perfect either. What carnal man is?

Dear Ben,
While David was judged to the full extend of the Law, which was a 7 fold judgement, in which he lost 7 concubines and his kingdom. This because he judged the rich man, who took the poor man's only lamb, to the maximum extent of the law.
On the other hand, Paul thinks he can sin with the body and keep the Law of God with his mind (Romans 7:25), and do this without being judged. Paul's followers feel the same. This is why his followers are inflicted with the plagues of Babylon (Rev 18:4). They are in such bad shape, that they elected fraudster Obama to take away their sickness, and they will find that they are going to be sicker still.

 

[Benoni]

Dear Ben,
While David was judged to the full extend of the Law, which was a 7 fold judgement, in which he lost 7 concubines and his kingdom. This because he judged the rich man, who took the poor man's only lamb, to the maximum extent of the law.
On the other hand, Paul thinks he can sin with the body and keep the Law of God with his mind (Romans 7:25), and do this without being judged. Paul's followers feel the same. This is why his followers are inflicted with the plagues of Babylon (Rev 18:4). They are in such bad shape, that they elected fraudster Obama to take away their sickness, and they will find that they are going to be sicker still.

So are you saying God's judgment our unjust? What about the blood of Jesus? Or does Jesus need to die again because you believe His blood cannot cover the sins of Adam, or Paul? Please post the verse, not the verse reference. seeing it is your point you are tring to make.

 

[2ndpillar]

So are you saying God's judgment our unjust? What about the blood of Jesus? Or does Jesus need to die again because you believe His blood cannot cover the sins of Adam, or Paul? Please post the verse, not the verse reference. seeing it is your point you are tring to make.

Dear Benoni,
With the reference to King David, Mt 7:2,"For the way you judge, you will be judged". King David could be forgiven but he could not escape justice.

As for the followers of Paul, who think they will not be judged, Rev 22:12 "Behold, I am coming quickly and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done."

 

[Benoni]

Dear Benoni,
With the reference to King David, Mt 7:2,"For the way you judge, you will be judged". King David could be forgiven but he could not escape justice.

As for the followers of Paul, who think they will not be judged, Rev 22:12 "Behold, I am coming quickly and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done."

No one ever said David would escape justice. God's judgments out just. When it comes to reward I am sure paul's award would be amazing for what he has done.

 

[2ndpillar]

No one ever said David would escape justice. God's judgments out just. When it comes to reward I am sure paul's award would be amazing for what he has done.

Dear Ben,
I was referring to Paul's followers. Say, someone like Barak Hussein Obama, a declared "Christian", who kind of goes past just stretching the truth.? Or say the pope, who professes to be "Christ on Earth", and can speak for God per the doctrine of papal infallibility. Or say the false prophet who is like a "ravenous wolf" (Gen 49:27) in sheep's clothing, who does miracles, yet who "PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS" (Mt 7:23)? Yeshua is pretty clear on what happens to the tares" WHO COMMIT LAWLESSNESS" (Mt 16:41) What happens to those that because of Paul think they are saved by saying the "sinners prayer", and yet are dogs, sorcerers, immoral, murderers, idolaters, and loves and practices lying?(Rev 22:15)

 

[Benoni]

Dear Ben,
I was referring to Paul's followers. Say, someone like Barak Hussein Obama, a declared "Christian", who kind of goes past just stretching the truth.? Or say the pope, who professes to be "Christ on Earth", and can speak for God per the doctrine of papal infallibility. Or say the false prophet who is like a "ravenous wolf" (Gen 49:27) in sheep's clothing, who does miracles, yet who "PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS" (Mt 7:23)? Yeshua is pretty clear on what happens to the tares" WHO COMMIT LAWLESSNESS" (Mt 16:41) What happens to those that because of Paul think they are saved by saying the "sinners prayer", and yet are dogs, sorcerers, immoral, murderers, idolaters, and loves and practices lying?(Rev 22:15)

That is what the lake of Devine Purging is for, to burn up all the chaff, and tares but not the people.