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The Throne and the Altar

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
With regards to Rome, they were pretty open to other religions, letting them practice them freely, but one had to pay homage to the Emperor as King of Kings and the ultimate God (I think, I can't remember exactly.) which expressed Roman domination over society. The Jews and Christians rejected this outright which is potentially why Jesus was killed, but also a reason why the Christians were persecuted and the Jews and Romans had so much tention.
No, the Emperor was seen as divine but not the ultimate deity or whatever. You had to make offerings to his genius. Jews eventually came to an agreement with Rome where they didn't have to worship the Emperor as a god and make offerings, but just make a tribute and pray for the well-being of the Emperor. So they had an exception. Jews were mostly concerned with their national independence, really. Christians refused to do even that and were engaged in a number of other seditious acts, so thats why they were persecuted. They often went out of their way to be oppressed and martyred. The Romans saw them as a bunch of anti-social, suicidal lunatics, which they were. The Romans were brutal and merciless to their enemies, like all ancient peoples, but they were also pragmatic and could be worked with as their biggest goal was the peace and security of society. I don't think most people realize how bonkers many of the early Christians actually were. Reading about their fanaticism is one of the reasons why I dumped that religion.
 
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sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
There are many examples that illustrate how the "church/state/power..." is a limited conception that does not reflect other models throughout history.

A good example is the Native American cosmos of beliefs Native American religions
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
The Hasmonean dynasty thought the solution to possible animosity between the priesthood and the royalty would be to combine them: The Hasmoneans were a Kohen (priest) family who rose to power after the Jewish defeat of the Greeks. Shimon Thassi became leader and (if memory serves) the unofficial king of the Judean Jews and was also the Kohen Ha'gadol, the high priest in the Temple. His son Yochanan Hyrcanus was officially king and continued on as high priest, as did his son Alexander Yannai. The problems started when Yannai had two sons who inherited him: The eldest, Hyrcanus, was given the high-priesthood, while the younger, Aristobuleus, was given the crown. Both wanted both jobs and started fighting between themselves. Finally, they had the bright idea to involve the Roman Empire to judge the case. The Romans, naturally, decided neither was worthy of ruling, stormed Judea, and annexed it into the empire. After that, Herod (descendant of an Edomite convert) rose to power and killed off most of the remainder of the Hasmoneans.

While it sounds that the reality of having a priest-king was the best for the Jews, the sages and Jewish law disagree with that. Jewish law is clear that the priests are descendants of Aharon and stick to their duties, while the crown belongs to the descendants of David and they stick to their duties. For this reason, it's argued by some that the fall of the Hasmonean Dynasty came from the fact that they didn't know their boundaries - had Yochanan Hyrcanus remained in a non-kingship leadership position, it would've been better in the long run.

This is something I deeply love about Judaism. It seems that no matter which flavor it comes in, it is passed down from one generation to the next in a admirable, scholarly manner. I have almost never gotten to know a Jewish person who did not have a deep and abiding appreciation for good scholarship, even if they were only a "cultural Jew". I love that! It shows such tremendous respect both for Judaism and for learning, I too, am a scholar of some merit and worth, as witness my three volume graphic work, "The Hottest Strip Clubs in Colorado: A Connoisseur's Introduction to the Religion of Erotic Dancing Girls".
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
There are many examples that illustrate how the "church/state/power..." is a limited conception that does not reflect other models throughout history.

A good example is the Native American cosmos of beliefs Native American religions

Which Native American peoples are you referring to? Those who lived in fully blown hierarchical societies, such as the Aztecs, or those who did not, such as the Arapaho, or the Lakota? For there to be church/state power, must there not first be a state?
 

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
***MOD POST***

HAH! HAH! HAH!

I MOVED THE THREAD FROM GENERAL DEBATES TO GENERAL RELIGIOUS DEBATES JUST TO SEE IF ANYONE WANTS TO PLAY HIDE AND SEEK WITH ME.

ANYONE?

PLEASE?

PLEASE, ANYONE?

.

Talk about abuse of power...
 

PureX

Veteran Member
Power and authority.​

Force and ideology.

King and clergy.​

The winning combo.The reason the earliest city-states were able to hold together long enough to make a difference to the history of the world.
Now it's the media, instead of the church, and economics, instead of the threat of physical violence. But, basically, it's still the same dynamic. It's control by coercion, and by force, acting together.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Now it's the media, instead of the church, and economics, instead of the threat of physical violence. But, basically, it's still the same dynamic. It's control by coercion, and by force, acting together.

I'm not clear on what kind of control or influence you see the media as having? Coercion? Force?
 

PureX

Veteran Member
I'm not clear on what kind of control or influence you see the media as having? Coercion? Force?
The media's job is coercion (obedience). By creating the 'reality' that serves the elite's agenda, we do what they want thinking it's what we must do. And by creating an economic system that keeps us dependent upon it for our very survival, they can use it like a weapon, to enforce their will. It's coercion and force via media sponsored ignorance, and via economic 'fear of death'.

It used to be the church that coerced our obedience by defining reality for us. Now it's the media doing it. And it used to be the 'landlords' and their paid henchmen forcing us on pain of death to work our lives away to enrich our kings. Now they have a whole economic system designed to make us do that for them, automatically. And instead of henchmen we have modern day "capos" who are willing to crack the master's whips for them, for a few extra baubles and pieces of bread.

We are living in a modern 'dark age' of economic feudalism. With whole societies owned and control by a collection of corporate fiefdoms.
 
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Samael_Khan

Goosebender
Spot on! The king might have the soldiers, but the priests have an even greater weapon: ideology. The scope and range of a sword is by its very nature limited. One trembles in its presence, but not so much in its absence. With an ideology, though, the scope and range of its control is theoretically unlimited. A thousand miles from the nearest sword of the king's men, you might find yourself still obeying the ideology of the priests. And even obeying it less begrudgingly -- and more zealously -- than you ever would a sword pointed at you.
Ideology is a super weapon. And when it comes to religion, they have a weapon that is better than a sword: guilt. Because if the ideology says that obeying the state is the right thing to do, and God has ordained it, and you disobey it then you will feel very guilty. Many religious leaders use FOG in sermons to get their followers to do there will.

F -Fear
O- Obligation
G - Guilt

In that order. The term comes from the process of emotional blackmail in an abusive relationship. There are actually studies that reveal that there is a "science" behind how a leader can manipulate their followers with relation to what we are discussing.


Again, spot on! And not only the Babylonian and Egyptian rulers either -- as I suspect you know. Again and again, when looking at the early hierarchical states around the world, we find this agreement, this marriage, even a fusion of altar and throne, church and state, god (and/or clergy) and king. The Inca of the Incan Empire was a god-king. As apparently might have been the rulers of most of the Meso-American civilizations (Mayan, Olmec, Toltec, Aztec, etc). Either god-kings or priest-kings.

Perhaps even more tellingly in this context, the rulers of the first Sumerian city-states begin as god-kings, then over time morph into stewards of this or that specific god.

Church and state were fused together because religion was a part of everything back then. Today we separate the religious from the secular, but their religion was so real to them that there was no such thing as secular. From my reading this link between the religion and the state seems to have appeared mostly in advanced civilisations. The San, for instance, for the most part didn't believe that the gods played a big role in their lives, so they were aware of them, but didnt bother with them, therefore no church and state. They might have appealed to the mantis God via the shaman if there was a drought, but he was a trickster god so they didnt trust him much. I think that maybe advanced civilisations actually were only able to be formed by using religion to unite many people. For instance there was a point in time that Egypt was not unified, and it seems that different towns had local gods. For instance in one town Anubis was the local god and he was seen as the creator. Later on the Egyptian religion became more unified and the consolidation of the local gods into one religion occurred at the same time.




As I recall, the Emperor's status was a bit fuzzy. In Rome and other sophisticated cities, he was not a deity, but instead his "genius", his spirit or driving inspiration, was the deity. A minor deity when compared to Jupiter or Saturn, to be sure, but still a deity. However, in the less sophisticated regions of the Empire, out in the boondocks, the Emperor himself was a god.
That comes directly from the concept of who the Pharoah was, since Greece and Rome were highly influenced by Egypt. The Pharoah's spirit, the Ka, was a deity but he himself was just a human. Slightly off topic but I find that figuring this out has helped me understand the concept of the Trinity and what its possible origins are. Jesus is like the Pharoah or the Emperor, his spirit is a deity but his body is human. Those who do not understand the Trinity, or how Jesus can be both God and man, do not understand the historical concept relating to this. Now John 1:1 makes sense to me, that Jesus was both God and with God at the same time.

By the way, the Christian term "liturgy" originates in the Latin word for a Roman tax. The tax usually took the form of a bit of salt paid to a Roman deity (in latter years, the Emperor or his genius) as a token of one's submission to the Romans, their state, their Senate, their Emperors. It was the Jewish refusal, and later the Christian refusal, to pay the liturgy that identified them as enemies of the state.
Ahhh... so those are the details behind it. That is good to know.

Ironically, they thus became enemies of the state even though some of them might otherwise be among the very best, most upstanding, and law-abiding subjects or citizens of the Empire for miles in any direction.
And then the state saw value in their religion and made it the state religion, thus controlling others through it. Very ironic.



Agreed. But even without any reference whatsoever to an afterlife, religions are hugely compelling when they become in any way "official" or representative of both the people at large and the state in particular. Just imagine what it's like to live in a society where the religion has no afterlife, but everyone about you treats you like an outcast so long as you do not subscribe to it.

Why, it would be worse -- far worse -- than being a nun in a strip club.
Haha! Isn't it more like being a stripper in a nunnery? Nuns are more judgemental. We have seen smaller examples of people being outcasts because of not following the normal religion of a particular family or community. I am currently an outcast of a particular group. The threat of being an outcast alone causes a person to follow the religion.
 

Samael_Khan

Goosebender
No, the Emperor was seen as divine but not the ultimate deity or whatever. You had to make offerings to his genius. Jews eventually came to an agreement with Rome where they didn't have to worship the Emperor as a god and make offerings, but just make a tribute and pray for the well-being of the Emperor. So they had an exception. Jews were mostly concerned with their national independence, really. Christians refused to do even that and were engaged in a number of other seditious acts, so thats why they were persecuted. They often went out of their way to be oppressed and martyred. The Romans saw them as a bunch of anti-social, suicidal lunatics, which they were. The Romans were brutal and merciless to their enemies, like all ancient peoples, but they were also pragmatic and could be worked with as their biggest goal was the peace and security of society. I don't think most people realize how bonkers many of the early Christians actually were. Reading about their fanaticism is one of the reasons why I dumped that religion.

Thanks for the correction and clarification. I am not surprised by how bonkers the Christians were back in the day. I think that it comes through in the text itself which is why fundamentalists have a similar mentality. I know of people who read Foxes Book of Martyrs and wish that they could do such things.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
Thanks for the correction and clarification. I am not surprised by how bonkers the Christians were back in the day. I think that it comes through in the text itself which is why fundamentalists have a similar mentality. I know of people who read Foxes Book of Martyrs and wish that they could do such things.
You're welcome.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Which Native American peoples are you referring to? Those who lived in fully blown hierarchical societies, such as the Aztecs, or those who did not, such as the Arapaho, or the Lakota? For there to be church/state power, must there not first be a state?
I was thinking of those in what is in the USA now.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
No, the Emperor was seen as divine but not the ultimate deity or whatever. You had to make offerings to his genius. Jews eventually came to an agreement with Rome where they didn't have to worship the Emperor as a god and make offerings, but just make a tribute and pray for the well-being of the Emperor. So they had an exception. Jews were mostly concerned with their national independence, really. Christians refused to do even that and were engaged in a number of other seditious acts, so thats why they were persecuted. They often went out of their way to be oppressed and martyred. The Romans saw them as a bunch of anti-social, suicidal lunatics, which they were. The Romans were brutal and merciless to their enemies, like all ancient peoples, but they were also pragmatic and could be worked with as their biggest goal was the peace and security of society. I don't think most people realize how bonkers many of the early Christians actually were. Reading about their fanaticism is one of the reasons why I dumped that religion.

Not just the Christians, though. I think seeing the Jews as a single, politically homogenous group is problematic.
I mean, it's no accident we use the term 'zealot' to refer to a general level of religious extremism now. And indeed one interesting thread to pick at is how the actions of some Jewish sects impacted on the relationship of other sects with the ruling Romans, both in a negative and positive sense.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
Which Native American peoples are you referring to? Those who lived in fully blown hierarchical societies, such as the Aztecs, or those who did not, such as the Arapaho, or the Lakota? For there to be church/state power, must there not first be a state?

It can be interesting, though, to consider less structured societies too, since I think what you're talking about might still apply. In some cases maybe even more-so, although I think there is probably examples I can think of where the ruling body and the clergy are not aligned (Persian Empire, at some stages of it's lifespan, for example).

So, quick examples would be feudal England or France, or the Five/Six Nations Confederacy in North America.

Sorry, haven't really thought though/refreshed my memory, these just leapt to mind.

I'm actually physically at work today (as in, gone in to the office) so can't really fact check until I'm home. Working from my poor, aging, drink-addled memory.
 
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Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Whether one thinks it is right or wrong to have the throne and the altar so closely linked, I would contend that it was necessary or close to necessary in the early civilizations in order to achieve the social and political stability necessary for them to endure for generations. In other words, without that link, we might still be hunting/gatherers. Which would mean not a desktop among us. All portable tablets and smart phones.
 

Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Staff member
Premium Member
"The papacy cut the direct and domestic relation between throne and altar in every manor or palace, and claimed the right to be guardian and spokesman for every local representative of the spirit...

The Papal Revolution (1073–1122) was the most general and intensive social earthquake Europe has ever seen. It shook the only stable, unblemished and respected symbol of unity: the economic, racial, religious, and moral unit of palace and manor. It emancipated the sons, clergy, knights and servants of every manor in Europe
."

(Rosenstock-Huessy, Eugen (1938). Out of Revolution: Autobiography of Western Man)

@Sunstone I tune out of the forum for just a few days to attend to civil litigation matters (an application under CPR Part 23 for an extension of time to file a Defence pursuant to CPR Rule 15.5, to be precise), only to miss out on a series of epic threads from yours truly, including - of all things - "throne and altar" throughout the ages, something right up my street!

During the first millennium of the Christian era, the normative stance amongst Christians was that 'throne and altar' were separate jurisdictions (spiritual/temporal), albeit both divinely ordered in their respective spheres - such that there should, ideally, be harmony between them.

The foundational treatment of the topic in medieval political theory can be found in Pope Gelasius's 'Two Powers' doctrine:


Famuli vestrae pietatis - Wikipedia


Famuli vestrae pietatis, also known by the Latin mnemonic duo sunt ("there are two"), is a letter written in 494 by Pope Gelasius I to Byzantine Emperor Anastasius I Dicorus which expressed the Gelasian doctrine.[1] According to commentary in the Enchiridion symbolorum, the letter is "the most celebrated document of the ancient Church concerning the two powers on earth."[2] The Gelasian doctrine articulates a Christian theology about division of authority and power.

This letter established the dualistic principle that would underlie all Western European political thought for almost a millennium. Gelasius expressed a distinction between two principles governing the world, which Gelasius called the "sacred authority of bishops" (auctoritas sacrata pontificum) and the "royal power" (regalis potestas).

These two principles, auctoritas lending justification to potestas, and potestas providing the executive strength for auctoritas were, Gelasius said, to be considered independent in their own spheres of operation, yet expected to work together in harmony.



There are two powers, august Emperor, by which this world is chiefly ruled, namely, the sacred authority of the priests and the royal power. Of these that of the priests is the more weighty, since they have to render an account for even the kings of men in the divine judgment...

If the ministers of religion, recognizing the supremacy granted you from heaven in matters affecting the public order, obey your laws, lest otherwise they might obstruct the course of secular affairs by irrelevant considerations, with what readiness should you not yield them obedience to whom is assigned the dispensing of the sacred mysteries of religion.


This represented a Christianized development (and appropriation) of the earlier Jewish distinction between an Aaronic priestly caste and the Davidic kingship, which @Harel13 outlined in excellent detail. Whereas many - if not most - ancient societies adhered to a kind of 'priest-kingship' (sacral monarchism, as with the Roman Emperor also being the Pontifex Maximus, the Pharaoh of Egypt a god-king etc.), in addition to a class of ordained clergy, the Israelites had come to strictly distinguish between these two offices and rarely combined them in a single theocratic model before the Maccabean era (when "the Jews and their priests resolved that Simon [Maccabee] should be their leader and high priest forever" 1 Maccabees 14:41). Christians, by and large, adopted this same schema from the Bible - with the exception of the Eastern church in Byzantium which gravitated back towards a kind of caeseropapist 'priest-king' model.

There were a few prominent dissenters, however, one of them by none other than St. Augustine of Hippo who took a much dimmer view of the origins of political power: regarding it as arising from criminal usurpation and lust for power, as opposed to divine sanction:


CHURCH FATHERS: City of God, Book IV (St. Augustine)


"Remove justice, and what are kingdoms but gangs of criminals on a large scale? What are criminal gangs but petty kingdoms? A gang is a group of men under the command of a leader, bound by a compact of association, in which the plunder is divided according to an agreed convention.

If this villainy wins so many recruits from the ranks of the demoralized that it acquires territory, establishes a base, captures cities and subdues peoples, it then openly arrogates to itself the title of kingdom, which is conferred on it in the eyes of the world, not by the renouncing of aggression but by the attainment of impunity.

To crush and subdue more remote peoples without provocation and solely from the thirst for dominion—what is one to call this but brigandage on the grand scale?
"

St. Augustine (354-430), Concerning the City of God Against the Pagans (H. Bettenson, Tr.), Book IV, Ch. 4



St. Augustine critiqued the classical understanding of a “commonwealth” as a society of men who band together based around an accord about justice, writing:


"… if there is no justice in such a man, then it is beyond doubt that there is no justice in a collection of men consisting of persons of this kind"( XIX.21)​


This line of thought was of pivotal significance to Augustine’s critique of the Roman Empire's claim to be a divinely ordained and upheld social order "without limits". In Augustine's estimation, kingdoms and imperial regimes - precisely because they "crush and subdue more remote peoples" - cannot be truly just and so they are really nothing but huge criminal gangs, no better than highway robbers; with the only distinction being one of scale and manpower of the demoralised masses.

The key issue raised by St. Augustine is how to distinguish legitimate governments from illegitimate - justice from tyranny - noting, “If we were to examine the conduct of states by the test of justice, as you propose, we should probably make this astounding discovery, that very few nations, if they restored what they have usurped, would possess any country at all” (De re pub. 3).

Until the dawn of the second millennium, no one had dared translate Augustine's theory into actual political practice and programmatic ideology - and so the Gelasian model remained the prevalent understanding of the relationship between 'crown and altar', a relationship of mutual harmony between two godly institutions.

This all changed, drastically and in a revolutionary state of affairs, in 1073 with the election of a fiery monk called Hildebrand as pope, who assumed the papal name Gregory VII. Hildebrand was a 'political Augustinian': the first historical person of note to attempt to actually implement Augustine's theory of political power ('crime-syndicate writ large' rather than divine ordination) as a viable social model.

As the eminent legal historian Harold J Berman argued in his classic study, Law and Revolution: The Formation of the Western Legal Tradition:


"...THE FIRST OF the great revolutions of Western history was the revolution against domination of the clergy by emperors, kings, and lords and for establishment of the Church of Rome as an independent, corporate, political and legal entity, under the papacy..."


And other historians:



"By creating an institutional counterweight to the emperor's power, Pope Gregory established the basis for what would later, with the impetus of the Protestant Reformers, form the cornerstone of modern freedom - the division of Church and State".

(Wayne Cristaudo, Religion, Redemption and Revolution p.237).


"Gregory VII attacked the ideas of imperial legitimacy, divine right and paramount overlordship. In so doing, he attacked the imperial theories of theocracy that reached back to Charlemagne's coronation by the pope in 800....Gregory was a revolutionary who attacked the traditional Gelasian "two-sword" division..."

(David Levine, At the Dawn of Modernity p.35)

"The culmination of this reforming urge came with the elevation of Pope Gregory VII (1073-85)....

Similar terms were accepted by the German Emperor Henry V (1106-1125) in 1122, after another prolonged period of strife between the imperial and papal powers.

The effect of this resolution was more profound than it might appear. For thousands of years, the pre-modern societies of Rome, Egypt, China, Mexico, Peru and Japan, for example, were essentially theocratic, that is ruled by a God-King or by a priestly caste.

The distinctively different character of Western and modern politics developed in part through the separation of secular from religious power. For in freeing the offices of the Church from the direct control of the princes, the secular rulers had also succeeded in liberating themselves from the immediate responsibility for religious and ecclesiastical affairs.

Likewise, religious leaders liberated themselves from the burden of secular responsibilities. Henceforth, the world of medieval politics was understood to be composed of two mutually independent coordinate powers: the regnum (secular kingdom) and the sacerdotium (spiritual realm). Each of these spheres enjoyed its own distinct concerns and interests which, while somewhat overlapping, were fundamentally separate.

This lent to temporal politics a measure of autonomy which it had not enjoyed previously during the Middle Ages. It also created a political climate within which theoretical speculation about uniquely human, earthly public affairs could commence. Thus, the resolution of the Investiture Controversy in the early twelfth century simultaneously heralded the dawning of a more strictly secular tradition within medieval political theory.
"

(Medieval Political Theory - A Reader: The Quest for the Body Politic, ed. Cary J. Nederman and Kate L. Forhan (Routledge: London & New York, 1993)

(continued....)
 
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Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Staff member
Premium Member
The Investiture Controversy - known to historians such as Norman Cohn and Harold J. Berman as The Papal Revolution and The Gregorian World Revolution - looms large in this historiography as the event that effectively dismantled the sacral foundations of the ancient, perrennial bond between Throne and Altar - ultimately rupturing their umbilical cord.

Emperor Henry IV had written to Pope Gregory VII at the beginning of the investiture contest: "You have dared to touch me, who although unworthy have been singled out by unction to rule, and whom, according to the traditions of the Holy Fathers, God alone can judge."

Pope St. Gregory VII's responded with a full-frontal ideological attack upon the assumed harmony between throne/altar in his (justly infamous) letter to Hermann of Metz:


"Is not [this] a sovereignty invented by men of this world, who were ignorant of God...? The Son of God [Jesus] we believe to be God and man. He despised a secular kingdom, which makes the sons of this world swell with pride and offered himself up as a sacrifice upon the cross.

Who does not know that kings and rulers derive their origin from men who raised themselves over their equals - fellow men - by pride, plunder, treachery, murder (in short, by every kind of crime) urged on, in fact, by the devil, the prince of the world, with blind cupidity and intolerable presumption?...

All kings and princes of this earth who live not piously are ruled by demons and are sunk in miserable slavery. Such men desire to rule, not guided by love of God, but to display their intolerable pride and to satisfy the lusts of their mind. Of these St. Augustine says in the first book of his Christian dictrine: "He who tries to rule over men - who are by nature equal to him - acts with intolerable pride"...

When a man disdains to be the equal of his fellow men, he becomes like an apostate angel
"

(To Hermann of Metz, in defense of the Papal Polict toward Henry IV, Book VIII, 21 (March 15, 1081)​


Gregory declared the 'throne' to be a satanic institution in origin, created by power-hungry men: "at the devil's instigation in the beginning of the world, to dominate men who were their equals" by nature. In the Dictatus Papae of 1073, Gregory's programme of action, I think we discover a profund rupture in the history of civilization itself, which - since its beginnings in ancient Sumeria - had tended to present kingship and/or rulership in general as divinely ordained. The Sumerian tablets list the order of divine 'Mes' (immutable decrees of the gods) as including 'Godship' followed by 'the exalted and enduring crown' and the 'throne of kingship'.

Gregory VII turned the tables upside down by proclaiming the royal 'Me' - to put it bluntly - a perverse fiction invented by (as he saw it) ancient despots for the sake of dominating, plundering and extorting other human beings who were by God's design their equals, not their subjects. And so Gregory absolved Catholics under the Emperor's authority of their oaths of allegiance to him as liege lord, meaning they could licitly rebel:


Germany - The civil war against Henry IV


At his Lenten synod the following month, Gregory absolved all men from their oaths to Henry and solemnly excommunicated and deposed the king. The situation quickly became desperate for Henry, who both lost much support and faced a reinvigorated revolt.

Henry hastened to meet Gregory at Canossa before the pope reached Augsburg, however, and appealed to him as a penitent sinner. Gregory had little choice but to forgive his rival and lifted the excommunication in January 1077.

Despite Gregory’s reconciliation with Henry, the princes elected Rudolf of Rheinfelden king at a gathering in Forchheim in March. The civil war that now broke out lasted almost 20 years.

Ultimately, however, Henry’s reign was doomed to failure by one final revolt. Even his apparent triumph at Canossa was tempered by his loss of status as a divinely appointed ruler.


It is arguable that if - in some parallel universe with a different trajectory of history - Gregory VII had not ascended to the papal chair in 1073 or perhaps been born at all, the partnership between 'throne and altar' may have persisted until today, such that Western secularism may never have emerged.

The Papal Revolution - Europe and the world's first 'total revolution' according to the historians cited (the initiator of a chain of subsequent 'total revolutions' including the Protestant Reformation, the Puritan Revolution, the French Revolution and the Russian Revolution) - introduced a fundamental antagonism and mutual antipathy between throne/altar; thus undermining its holism and forcing European monarchs to justify their rule in 'secular' terms (primogeniture, rule of law, appeals to proto-national identity, personal qualities, charismatic authority etc.) rather than chiefly through sacral unction and divine ordination (as with the Pharaohs, Caesars, Davidic Kings of ancient Israel, Aztec emperors etc.) because the Papacy had withdrawn that religious sanction.

As the anarchist social historian Murray Bookchin explained in his study, The Ecology of Freedom (1982):


"The most explosive of these conflicts developed in the eleventh century, when Pope Gregory VII forbade the lay investiture of bishops and claimed this authority exclusively for the Papacy. The dispute reached its culmination when the Holy See excommunicated the Holy Roman Emperor, Henry lV, for contumaciously resisting the Church's claims, and called upon Henry's subjects to deny him fealty.

In so doing, he challenged political power and placed it in a tainted ethical light. Accordingly, the Pope traced political authority as such back to evil and sin in a fashion that makes the Augustinian position seem tepid...

These heady words of Gregory match the most stinging attacks that were to be leveled against political authority by the revolutionary chiliastic leaders of the Reformation period by comparison.

Christian social theory, particularly its radical wing, had overcome the duality between heaven and earth on which Pauline Christianity had been nourished. Once the split was transcended, heavenly questions were superseded by practical problems of law, power, authority, equality, and freedom. Pope Gregory VII had opened sluice gates that his era could never again close....When the Puritans of 1649 removed the head of King Charles I in the name of a new religious credo, they effectively removed the head of their heavenly Father as well. In the following century, the Parisian sans culottes were to remove kingly and queenly heads with invocations to no higher authority than reason.
"

(p.171-172)


(continued...)​
 
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Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Staff member
Premium Member
It was on this basis that the later Jesuit theologians of the seventeenth century, with explicit papal sanction, contested the Anglican theory promoted by Filmer of the "divine right of kings" as heresy:


Francisco Suárez - Wikipedia


Francisco Suárez (5 January 1548 – 25 September 1617) was a Spanish Jesuit priest, philosopher and theologian, one of the leading figures of the School of Salamanca movement...

Suárez denies the patriarchal theory of government and the divine right of kings founded upon it, doctrines popular at that time in England and to some extent on the Continent...When a political society is formed, the authority of the state is not of divine but of human origin; therefore, its nature is chosen by the people involved, and their natural legislative power is given to the ruler.[11] Because they gave this power, they have the right to take it back and to revolt against a ruler, only if the ruler behaves badly towards them, and they must act moderately and justly...If a government is imposed on people, on the other hand, they have the right to defend themselves by revolting against it and even kill the tyrannical ruler.[12]


In 1613, at the instigation of Pope Paul V, Suárez wrote a treatise dedicated to the Christian princes of Europe, entitled Defensio catholicae fidei contra anglicanae sectae errores("Defense of the Universal Catholic Faith Against the Errors of the Anglican Sect").[16] This was directed against the oath of allegiance which James I required from his subjects.

King James (himself a talented scholar) caused it to be burned by the common hangman and forbade its perusal under the 'severest penalties, complaining bitterly to Philip III of Spain for harbouring in his dominions a declared enemy of the throne and majesty of kings.


The views of Suarez upon the human origin of political order, and his defense of tyrannicide emanating from popular dissent were heavily criticized by English philosopher Robert Filmer in his work Patriarcha, Or the Natural Power of Kings. Filmer believed the Calvinists and the Papists like Suarez to be dangerous opponents of divine right monarchy, legitimized by the supremacy of fathers upon their offspring, which Filmer claimed could be traced back to Adam


Suárez, Francisco | Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy


Francisco Suárez (1548—1617)

Sometimes called the "Eminent Doctor" after Pope Paul V’s designation of him as doctor eximius et pius, Francisco Suárez was the leading theological and philosophical light of Spain’s Golden Age...when he attempted to join the rapidly growing Society of Jesus, he attained international prominence within his lifetime. He taught at the schools in Segovia, Valladolid, Rome, Alcalá, Salamanca, and finally at Coimbra, the last at Philip II’s insistence.

His Defensio fidei, published in 1613, defended a theory of political power that was widely perceived to undermine any monarch's absolute right to rule. He explicitly permitted tyrannicide and argued that even monarchs who come to power legitimately can become tyrants and thereby lose their authority. Such views led to the book being publically burned in London and Paris...

One could hold the view that what gives some individuals political power over other people is that God bestowed such authority on them directly. Suárez rejects that view. He insists that men are by nature free and subject to no one (DL 3.1.1)...

The short answer is that political communities are needed and so men consent to join together in such communities, and in a political community the power to govern and to look after the common good of the community must be vested in an authority...
 
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