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The Title X Gag Rule

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
The HHS page describing the final draft of a new rule for the Title X family planning program states:

"The final rule ensures compliance with statutory program integrity provisions governing the program and, in particular, the statutory prohibition on funding programs where abortion is a method of family planning."

HHS Releases Final Title X Rule Detailing Family Planning Grant Program

Then it reveals:

"Key elements of the final rule include . . . [p]rohibiting referral for abortion . . . ".

But as the link to the statute clearly shows, the statute does not prohibit healthcare professionals from communicating to their patients information about or referrals to facilities that include abortion. The new rule does not establish compliance with the statute. The statute says:

"None of the funds appropriated under this title shall be used in programs where abortion is a method of family planning.” PHS Act § 1008, 42 U.S.C. § 300a-6.

Thus, the above lie on our government webpage raises several questions in my mind:

(1) Is there any reason to conclude that this new rule that restricts the speech between healthcare professionals and their patients is constitutional? There is ample case law where the Court has held that, short of a compelling governmental purpose and the presence of other elements necessary to meet strict scrutiny, content-based and speaker-based restrictions on speech are unconstitutional. The new Title X rule is definitely both a content- and speaker-based restriction on speech.

(2) Is there any laudable purpose for the new rule?

In 2011, Texas enacted a law that had a similar, but less drastic, effect as the new HHS rule will have, i.e., the law greatly reduced state funds available to family planning clinics where doctors were allowed to refer patients to facilities that included abortion; these funding cuts particularly affected impoverished areas. Governor Rick Perry boasted at the time that he “was really proud to be able to sign into legislation to defund Planned Parenthood,” and that his goal for the state was to continue to “pass laws to ensure abortions are as rare as possible under existing law”.

Just the opposite happened. A study by Analisa Packham of Miami University found that the legislation led to an increase in teen birth rates by 3.7-4.7% two years after the funding cuts, and 10.3-11.2% three years afterward, accompanied by an increase in abortion rates of 4.9% two years after, and 3.1% over three years: Family Planning Funding Cuts and Teen Childbearing

(3) Do you support executive actions or laws that are likely to result in higher birth rates among teens and higher abortion rates especially among low-income persons?

(4) Have you adopted or fostered any unwanted children and provided a loving home for them? If so, how many?
 

dianaiad

Well-Known Member
(4) Have you adopted or fostered any unwanted children and provided a loving home for them? If so, how many?

Personally? None. But my brother was adopted and my oldest daughter would do anything in order to be able to adopt. However, she is on a very long list of people waiting for children to adopt (and she does not restrict her 'wishes' to newborns...she'd love older children, sibling sets, whoever needs her) and will soon be considered too old to be on that list.

If just one or two of the women who decided that it was too inconvenient to have a baby would consider my daughter.....
 

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Personally? None. But my brother was adopted and my oldest daughter would do anything in order to be able to adopt. However, she is on a very long list of people waiting for children to adopt (and she does not restrict her 'wishes' to newborns...she'd love older children, sibling sets, whoever needs her) and will soon be considered too old to be on that list.

If just one or two of the women who decided that it was too inconvenient to have a baby would consider my daughter.....

Good for your daughter.

According to HHS statistics, there is no shortage of children waiting to be adopted or children available for foster care. In 2017 there were nearly 700,000 children in the US alone waiting to be adopted, and almost 450,000 in foster care.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Good for you. Thank you.

Do you support policies or laws that are likely to result in higher birth rates among teens and higher abortion rates especially among low-income women?
I support policies which avoid standing in the
way of people doing what is desired & responsible.
And I'd rather see a reduction in population.
(Those goals might at times be in opposition.)\

For the record....
I'm pro-abortion.
I see nothing wrong with it, oppose discouraging it.
 

dianaiad

Well-Known Member
Good for your daughter.

According to HHS statistics, there is no shortage of children waiting to be adopted or children available for foster care. In 2017 there were nearly 700,000 children in the US alone waiting to be adopted, and almost 450,000 in foster care.

Please pardon me for being a leetle more aware of the problems of children in foster care (at least in California) than you are. There IS a shortage of children eligible for adoption. Oh, there are all those kids in foster care, true enough....but 99% of them are NOT available for adoption. New laws are very restrictive about 'parental rights.' Even if both parents are in prison for child abuse, the state will not take parental rights away from the birth parents. My daughter has run into this time and time again. If there is even one blood relative willing to get money from the state because s/he is 'next of kin,' that's enough to destroy any hope the kid has of being adopted. My daughter has been up against that one five times already.
 

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Please pardon me for being a leetle more aware of the problems of children in foster care (at least in California) than you are. There IS a shortage of children eligible for adoption.
Wow. Just wow. Prove your claim that the HHS figures of children waiting to be adopted are false.
 

dianaiad

Well-Known Member
Wow. Just wow. Prove your claim that the HHS figures of children waiting to be adopted are false.

Certainly.

California has around 60,000 children in foster care right now. Of those children, about 56% will be returned to their parents or to relatives. That leaves a bit over 26,000 kids. Of those kids, MOST will be stuck in the foster care system until they get turned out of their foster care homes at the age of 18. Only about 2000 kids are eligible for adoption. There seems to be up to 36 couples waiting to adopt for every baby placed for adoption, nationally, and the list to adopt older children is almost as long. The road to adoption is long and rocky; children in foster care have to have their birth parent's rights terminated before they can be adopted, and in California, at least, that is not done very often...and hardly ever if the birth parent is in jail. For some reason, it's not considered fair to do that to a prison inmate, no matter why that inmate is IN prison.

And your numbers make no sense. Would you like to tell the class how there can be 700,000 children waiting to be adopted, but only 400,000 in the foster care system?

Oh, and I gave you exactly the same level of proof you gave me in this.

But at least I took some time to get the actual numbers. Remember, I'm not talking about google research here. I'm intimately involved in the adoption process, through my daughter, who has been attempting to adopt a child for nearly fifteen years. Her experience is by no means unique...or even unusual.

Good thing you didn't hold your breath, It DID take me longer than five minutes to respond to you, after all.
 

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Certainly.

California has around 60,000 children in foster care right now. Of those children, about 56% will be returned to their parents or to relatives. That leaves a bit over 26,000 kids. Of those kids, MOST will be stuck in the foster care system until they get turned out of their foster care homes at the age of 18. Only about 2000 kids are eligible for adoption. There seems to be up to 36 couples waiting to adopt for every baby placed for adoption, nationally, and the list to adopt older children is almost as long. The road to adoption is long and rocky; children in foster care have to have their birth parent's rights terminated before they can be adopted, and in California, at least, that is not done very often...and hardly ever if the birth parent is in jail. For some reason, it's not considered fair to do that to a prison inmate, no matter why that inmate is IN prison.

And your numbers make no sense. Would you like to tell the class how there can be 700,000 children waiting to be adopted, but only 400,000 in the foster care system?

Oh, and I gave you exactly the same level of proof you gave me in this.

But at least I took some time to get the actual numbers. Remember, I'm not talking about google research here. I'm intimately involved in the adoption process, through my daughter, who has been attempting to adopt a child for nearly fifteen years. Her experience is by no means unique...or even unusual.

Good thing you didn't hold your breath, It DID take me longer than five minutes to respond to you, after all.
You merely made more claims. In order to prove that your claims are true, cite your sources.
 

Mister Emu

Emu Extraordinaire
Staff member
Premium Member
But as the link to the statute clearly shows, the statute does not prohibit healthcare professionals from communicating to their patients information about
The final rule does not bar nondirective counseling on abortion

referrals to facilities that include abortion.
I fairly admit that I could be wrong here, but it seems to me there is a significant difference between referral to a facility that performs abortions and referral to a facility for an abortion. My reading of the rule is the latter, not the former.
 

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I fairly admit that I could be wrong here, but it seems to me there is a significant difference between referral to a facility that performs abortions and referral to a facility for an abortion. My reading of the rule is the latter, not the former.
The statute doesn't forbid referrals, period. Right?

I've had extremely limited experience with doctors -- I can count my sick visits with doctors on one hand. But I've never known one doctor or other medical professional to make a referral to another doctor and require the patient to obtain a particular procedure from the other doctor. Rather, the referring professional merely gives a referral in order for the patient to consult with the other doctor, so that the patient and the referred doctor can decide what procedures are appropriate. Right?
 
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