The Transfiguration

[wmam]

From Wmam's last post. I'm confused by reply.

In my understanding of..........

Mat 17:1 And after six days Yahshua taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
Mat 17:2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
Mat 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
Mat 17:4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Yahshua, Master, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
Mat 17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
Mat 17:6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.
Mat 17:7 And Yahshua came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid.
Mat 17:8 And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Yahshua only.
Mat 17:9 And as they came down from the mountain, Yahshua charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.
Mat 17:10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
Mat 17:11 And Yahshua answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
Mat 17:12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
Mat 17:13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

Remember that there is more to a story than meets the eye because of the way we were trained to read a book.............

Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

This tells allot of what the next chapter and verses are showing.

1Th 4:16 For the Master himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of Elohim: and the dead in the Anointed shall rise first:

The dead in the Anointed, which are represented by Moses and Elias........ and........

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Master in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Master.

This is speaking of the 144,000 which Yahshua represented. Remember........ For no man have ascended unto the Father. Yahshua is the first to do so. Same will be when the 144,000 are called which are alive at the time appointed....... here.....

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Now I do not believe that Moses and Elias was actually there. I believe that it is what Yahshua said it was. A vision. Period. So the "some" that was spoke of in Mat 16:28 are being shown what was mentioned to them. In doing so it was played out as to the other verses.

I hope this helped. If not then maybe I could offer to you a contact outside this forum for a more broader and unabridged answer than I could give. Just let me know.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

well, a little look at the concordance tells me that transfiguration was translated from

Metamorphoo: to change into another form

I believe Moses, Elijah, and Jesus are all part of the same 'soul group', and this was a witness to Jesus talking to his 'spiritual guides', those parts of his soul group that was not incarnate at the time ( like the apostles). And of course they were supposed to keep quiet about it because the Jews believed that talking to the dead was of Satan.

Do you just make this stuff up?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

How can Elijah, who like Enoch, be resurrected when he had never died?

I believe the concept is that man cannot get into heaven with the flesh that we have on earth. That had to "die" and he was seen in the vision in his new and glorified body.

As to whether or not it was a vision or not, well, it says it was a vision so why not believe it was a vision?

 

[gnostic]

So you believe that Enoch and Elijah did die before they had ascended. Then wouldn't that contradict what are written in the Genesis and in 2 Kings?

 

[wmam]

So you believe that Enoch and Elijah did die before they had ascended. Then wouldn't that contradict what are written in the Genesis and in 2 Kings?

Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

So you believe that Enoch and Elijah did die before they had ascended. Then wouldn't that contradict what are written in the Genesis and in 2 Kings?

Not in the sense that we consider death, ie. their heart stopped, their respiration stopped, yadda yadda. Their earthly flesh was transformed into their heavenly body, the one that all believers will receive. If that means they died then so be it.

 

[gnostic]

But we don't know that for sure. We are only speculating that Enoch and Elijah received a new body throught transformation, though logically it would be so, but that doesn't necessarily mean they went through death at all.

 

[wmam]

1Co 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
1Co 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

 

[sojourner]

I believe the concept is that man cannot get into heaven with the flesh that we have on earth. That had to "die" and he was seen in the vision in his new and glorified body.

As to whether or not it was a vision or not, well, it says it was a vision so why not believe it was a vision?

That's kind of heretical thinking, atually: "flesh bad -- spirit good" type thinking. The "object of the game" isn't to "make it to heaven." The object of the game is to live in this world of flesh in a new way. God created humanity with flesh on it, and God declared it good. It's not the flesh that separated us from God, but the way we lived our lives. We don't "gain heaven" by shedding our flesh. We live in the flesh in a new way, because we understand that we have been promised heaven already.