The tree of knowledge..............

[spacemonkey]

Silly boy.:no: Genesis 1: 27-28 (that's before the fall):

"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply....":clap2:

Thats interesting, lets look a little closer at this...

That verse implies that God created man and woman at the same time, but Gen 2: 15-22 implies that God created man, then all of the animals, then finally woman, so how can they both be correct?

One more thing, the verse before the ones you mentioned states
"Then God said, 'Let US make man in OUR image, in OUR likeness...' "

Still think there is only one god?

 

[spacemonkey]

What in monkeys name does this have to do with the OP?

Because I don't see eating from the tree as the "fall of man" but rather the rise of man.

 

[Quiddity]

Because I don't see eating from the tree as the "fall of man" but rather the rise of man.

Alright, I'll play. What did we rise in?

 

[spacemonkey]

Alright, I'll play. What did we rise in?

Ignorance enslaves, knowledge liberates. Look at Europe during the Dark Ages, how did monarachs and the Church that supported their ABSOLUTE RULE keep people bonded to the land and under control? By keeping them uneducated. Its the same thing here, we are prisoners of the demiurge here on earth, and knowledge (gnosis) is the key to our bonds.

 

[Quiddity]

Ignorance enslaves, knowledge liberates. Look at Europe during the Dark Ages, how did monarachs and the Church that supported their ABSOLUTE RULE keep people bonded to the land and under control? By keeping them uneducated. Its the same thing here, we are prisoners of the demiurge here on earth, and knowledge (gnosis) is the key to our bonds.

At what makes you think that knowledge wouldn't have come without them eating from the tree?

 

[lamplighter]

I would like to know how did Adam and Eve's childern go out and meet other peopl anyway? Because that would mean IF there was only one god and IF Adam and Eve were the original man and woman god would've had to create other people with the knowledge from the tree. Of course this could also very well mean that Adam and Eve where created in OT god's image but to guide lines set by other gods who had created other humans elsewhere. Which means we are all not born with an orignal sin.

 

[nutshell]

You just made that up didn't you?

That has no foundation in scripture. God made Adam and Eve and then commanded them to be fruitful and multipy. God would not command something that cannot be achieved.

No. I did not just make that up and I believe there is foundation in scripture. I'll have more time tonight to show you where.

Finally, regarding the part in bold, where is your scriptural support for that claim?

 

[Quiddity]

No. I did not just make that up and I believe there is foundation in scripture. I'll have more time tonight to show you where.

Finally, regarding the part in bold, where is your scriptural support for that claim?

I know that was directed at SW but why God would ask something of anyone that He knew could not be accomplished is beyond me. Help me out here.

 

[nutshell]

I know that was directed at SW but why God would ask something of anyone that He knew could not be accomplished is beyond me. Help me out here.

I'll work on the scriptural support later, but just remind you that it was the "switch" God had in place to get our progression started.

Do you believe Christ was designated the Savior before the Fall? Why or why not?

 

[Quiddity]

I'll work on the scriptural support later, but just remind you that it was the "switch" God had in place to get our progression started.

Do you believe Christ was designated the Savior before the Fall? Why or why not?

That is a deep metaphysical question. Since God is not bound by time, how can I begin to answer this.

More importantly (at least to me) is if God works out his plan independent of humans? In other words, does he need particular people for a plan? Or are His plans completely integrated into specific people? Making Him NEED us.

I don't think he does NEED us. His plan will come about whether Adam and Even ate from the tree or not.

 

[Quiddity]

I'll work on the scriptural support later, but just remind you that it was the "switch" God had in place to get our progression started.

Do you believe Christ was designated the Savior before the Fall? Why or why not?

BTW, I wasn't asking for scriptural support. I simply wanted your thoughts on how God asks anybody something they cannot accomplish. How is this so?

 

[spacemonkey]

At what makes you think that knowledge wouldn't have come without them eating from the tree?

Eating from the tree is a metaphor, think Prometheus bringing fire from Olympus to mankind. It seems a recuring theme in religon and mythology (some call it "folk memory") that intelligence/knowledge/technology had to taken away from someone and given to us. Staying with the Greek mythological parallel, Eve in this story plays the part of Pandora, being the cause of all of mankinds sorrows.

 

[Quiddity]

Eating from the tree is a metaphor, think Prometheus bringing fire from Olympus to mankind. It seems a recuring theme in religon and mythology (some call it "folk memory") that intelligence/knowledge/technology had to taken away from someone and given to us. Staying with the Greek mythological parallel, Eve in this story plays the part of Pandora, being the cause of all of mankinds sorrows.

That's nice, but you didn't answer my question.

 

[nutshell]

That is a deep metaphysical question. Since God is not bound by time, how can I begin to answer this.

More importantly (at least to me) is if God works out his plan independent of humans? In other words, does he need particular people for a plan? Or are His plans completely integrated into specific people? Making Him NEED us.

I don't think he does NEED us. His plan will come about whether Adam and Even ate from the tree or not.

I don't believe you answered my question, but I'll continue.

I agree. God does not need us. But we need Him and that is the purpose of His plan and eating from the tree is how he choose to implement his plan for us.

 

[nutshell]

BTW, I wasn't asking for scriptural support. I simply wanted your thoughts on how God asks anybody something they cannot accomplish. How is this so?

He gives them conflicting commandments, knowing they will eventually break one of the other. This was a one time event, IMO.

 

[nutshell]

At what makes you think that knowledge wouldn't have come without them eating from the tree?

I know you're question is directed at the monkey, but I'd like to share my 2 cents.

Knowledge would not have come about because Adam and Eve would have eternally been in a state of innocence, not knowing good and evil. They would forever be children without progression. They weren't capable of having the knowledge necessary for progression until after they ate of the tree.

 

[Quiddity]

I don't believe you answered my question, but I'll continue.

I agree. God does not need us. But we need Him and that is the purpose of His plan and eating from the tree is how he choose to implement his plan for us.

No I didn't answer your question. Because your question deals with outside of time. It's as difficult as asking me what God is made of? Beats me.

From my perspective it appears God knew we would screw things up. How that was going to happen is a question that is constrained by time because only time can answer it. In otherwords he only knew we would screw up, but not how we would screw up.

 

[Quiddity]

He gives them conflicting commandments, knowing they will eventually break one of the other. This was a one time event, IMO.

Conflicting commandments? You lost me. Give me an example.

 

[Quiddity]

I know you're question is directed at the monkey, but I'd like to share my 2 cents.

Knowledge would not have come about because Adam and Eve would have eternally been in a state of innocence, not knowing good and evil. They would forever be children without progression. They weren't capable of having the knowledge necessary for progression until after they ate of the tree.

So commiting the act did this? If so, that goes back to my original posts. That people can understand evil, without committing it. They can even grow.

 

[Katzpur]

I asked first...

Jeezh! Be difficult then.

I think the tree was placed to truly fulfill "free will". I do not believe he placed it for "our benefit". What benefit does it bring exactly?

By partaking of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, Adam and Even took the first step towards becoming like their Father in Heaven. Notice that in Genesis 3:22, the Lord says, "Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil..." By remaining in a state of innocence forever, as they would have done had they not chosen to eat of the forbidden fruit, they would never had known the difference between good and evil, or any of the myriad of opposites that lead to progression. I'm not sure what the Catholic perspective is, but if you think God really wanted Adam and Eve to remain in the Garden forever, why do you believe He allowed Satan to tempt them? He could have simply placed the Tree in the Garden and told them not to touch it. Without someone to tempt them, they might actually have never eaten from it. Obviously, the choice was God's; Satan would not have even been there had God not allowed it. I can't imagine you think believe God to be so naive that He didn't know what was going to ultimately happen or that He was powerless to prevent it.

So now will you answer my questions?