The Trinity = A Gnostic Concept???

[Mattweedhacker]

Specifically the concept of God as three persons (hypostases).

Did Valentinus bring to Christendom the Trinity as it is currently understood?

(Quotes taken from this wikipedia article)

I would like to make the point - that this quotation is in a ( secondary ) source.

There is some [ . . . ] dot dot doting going on here aswell.

In other words the pre-ceeding and following - ( context ) - is missing.

I have seen this exact same quote used - saying it was talking about and being used against those who were - ( for ) - the same-ousia concept. And not the Arians. In other word's he was either cautioning or condemning the Orthodox Nicean party.

It would make an enormous difference to the accuracy of this disscussion if someone could post:

1.) The pre-ceeding context
2.) The following context
3.) The Latin or Greek text upon which the English translation is based
4.) Alternate English translations for comparison
5.) Some history concernig the text and MSS from which it was taken and about the writer

Otherwise this entire disscussion could be based on a faulty premise and innaccurate assumptions.

Please don't take offense at this - I am trying to save you all some potential embarrasment.

 

[Pegg]

Specifically the concept of God as three persons (hypostases).
Did Valentinus bring to Christendom the Trinity as it is currently understood?

(Quotes taken from this wikipedia article)

there were many trinity gods among pagan nations long before christianity was established.

 

[InChrist]

there were many trinity gods among pagan nations long before christianity was established.

Satan does definitely like to imitate, slander, and mock the True and Living God.

 

[outhouse]

Satan does definitely like to imitate, slander, and mock the True and Living God.

most of what you see in Peggs demonstration predates the abrahamic deity

 

[InChrist]

most of what you see in Peggs demonstration predates the abrahamic deity

So does the malevolent being Lucifer/Satan predate the time of Abraham, as this being predates all human history.

 

[outhouse]

So does the malevolent being Lucifer/Satan predate the time of Abraham, as this being predates all human history.

no lucifer/satan is a product of ancient hebrews and never existed before 1250BC

1250 is when ancient hebrews became a culture, hebrews and their mythology did not exist before this time

 

[JacobEzra.]

there were many trinity gods among pagan nations long before christianity was established.

And do all of these agree in every detail to the Trinity?

 

[outhouse]

And do all of these agree in every detail to the Trinity?

nothing in christianity agree to every detail regarding the trinity lol


you dont even have scripture supporting the belief

 

[JacobEzra.]

nothing in christianity agree to every detail regarding the trinity lol

Maybe you should pay closer attention to the Catechism

you dont even have scripture supporting the belief

Yes we do..

According to your post, id say I was right in asking if Peggs "examples" were accurate. People usually do try to bite when they get called out.

 

[InChrist]

no lucifer/satan is a product of ancient hebrews and never existed before 1250BC

1250 is when ancient hebrews became a culture, hebrews and their mythology did not exist before this time

You are entitled to your opinion, but it is contrary to God's word.

 

[outhouse]

You are entitled to your opinion, but it is contrary to God's word.

im not asking for proof of a deity

but when you can show hebrews existed before 1250BC im all ears.


history shows hebrews did not exist before 1250BC

but there were many cultures before them so we have accurate details regarding valid known history

 

[outhouse]

You are entitled to your opinion, but it is contrary to God's word.

god never penned a word, If such a deity existed I would think he would have to be illiterate

 

[outhouse]

Yes we do..

only if one uses huge amounts of imagination.

Maybe you should pay closer attention to the Catechism

has nothing to do with how the trinity was formed.

 

[JacobEzra.]

has nothing to do with how the trinity was formed.

lol your comment had nothing to do with how it was formed. You lost train of thought, or just simply forgot what I was replying to?

 

[InChrist]

god never penned a word, If such a deity existed I would think he would have to be illiterate

Neither am I interested in discussing the reality of God with an atheist who already knows for sure there is no God and who knows God would have to be illiterate, if such a God exists, anyway.
I believe God's word concerning the history of the Hebrews and the existence of Satan who has from the beginning of earth's history inspired humankind with false images of the true God, in this case false gods misrepresenting His triune nature...Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

 

[outhouse]

lol your comment had nothing to do with how it was formed. You lost train of thought, or just simply forgot what I was replying to?

Catechism doesnt have anything to do with the trinity concept being gnostic



but to settle any debate, we started with a few abrahamic deities that slowley merged into monotheism around the time of second Isaiah.

Then enters yeshua and a new branch of judaism was formed. A branch that completely rewrote the hebrews definition of their deity. [their still not happy about it either]

Now came the problem of how to merge two deities and still keep the monotheistic traditions they held valuable. there is nothing gnostic about the trinity concept. It was dualality at best with yeshua and now what do we do with the spirit then later a ghost

 

[outhouse]

I believe God's word concerning the history of the Hebrews and the existence of Satan who has from the beginning of earth's history

So you believe hebrews existed before 1250BC??? surely there would be some kind of evidence somewhere.


AH but wait, maybe you think all people were hebrews in the 200,000 years homo spaiens have been on the planet????


You think the word also had a worldwide flood ????

 

[JacobEzra.]

Catechism doesnt have anything to do with the trinity concept being gnostic

:no:
lol neither did your post I was replying to. You had said about nothing n christianity agreeing to the trinity. Which led me to say something about the Catechism.

Come on man, its all on the last page. How do you get lost so quickly?

 

[InChrist]

So you believe hebrews existed before 1250BC??? surely there would be some kind of evidence somewhere.


AH but wait, maybe you think all people were hebrews in the 200,000 years homo spaiens have been on the planet????


You think the word also had a worldwide flood ????

Let God be true and every man a liar. Romans 3:4

When it comes to history I take God's infinite wisdom over limited human knowledge.

 

[outhouse]

Let God be true and every man a liar. Romans 3:4

When it comes to history I take God's infinite wisdom over limited human knowledge.

but we dont have limited human knowledge regarding certain times in history.


God didnt write the book. hebrews wrote the book all from different times and described their mythology, dreams, needs, and the theology they created.




To say what you are saying you do against more then just

science
geology
historians
scholars

but logic and reason as well.


You have to believe in magic and follow young earth creationism.