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The trinity debate - Is it monotheism?

Terry Sampson

Well-Known Member
We do not need ‘Dictionary definition’ to state what we believe.
You've made that abundantly clear. You claim that "God" means "Ruler", contrary to the definition that I offered from Wikipedia and you offer no justification for your claim other than your belief that that claim is true. You make stuff up and expect the world to accept your authority for what you say, and then are amazed when no one does.
 

Messianic Israelite

Active Member
Nope. Wrong.

Pluralis Majestatis. It's singular.
Hi firedragon. Good morning. I've been looking in to this subject which I haven't looked in to for some time and I came across a quote . It says "It has been explained that in Genesis 1:1 the word for 'G-d' in the Hebrew - the language in which it was originally written - is 'Elohim' - meaning more than one Person forming one G-d - the one G-d family" That quote is from the book 'G-d Speaks Out on the New Morality' written by a collaboration of faculty members of Ambassador College, Pasadena, California.
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
You dont know the Bible. You are absolutely wrong, nonsensical, and just egoistic. Nothing more, nothing less.

There are enough big gods and small gods, big masters and small masters. All of them does not mean God. You should understand rather than be so egoistic. It clouds your brain prowess. Ego.

Just because you have no education in a matter someone asks about dont say "It stupid question".

I will give you an example.

What does "Christian" mean? I mean the word, not some theological exegesis. Simple one sentence answer.
The meaning of “Christian[ity]“, is ‘A belief in the coming, the teaching, the death, the resurrection, the glorification, the judgement, the giving of Eternal Life to worthy ones of humanity, the eternal death of unworthy ones of humanity, the final rulership over the created kingdom... by Jesus Christ’, therefore, ‘A Christian’ is a person of humanity who believes in and follows Christianity (as defined above).
 
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Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
Hi firedragon. Good morning. I've been looking in to this subject which I haven't looked in to for some time and I came across a quote . It says "It has been explained that in Genesis 1:1 the word for 'G-d' in the Hebrew - the language in which it was originally written - is 'Elohim' - meaning more than one Person forming one G-d - the one G-d family" That quote is from the book 'G-d Speaks Out on the New Morality' written by a collaboration of faculty members of Ambassador College, Pasadena, California.
Stupid question because “God“, no matter what the capitalisation, or not, is the same meaning:
  • ‘Ruler’
  • ‘Mighty Ones
  • ‘Law Maker’
  • ‘Law Keeper’
It’s a stupid question because it’s designed for malice ... or from a strong sense of mis-understanding about language usage.
 

cataway

Well-Known Member
Stupid question because “God“, no matter what the capitalisation, or not, is the same meaning:
  • ‘Ruler’
  • ‘Mighty Ones
  • ‘Law Maker’
  • ‘Law Keeper’
It’s a stupid question because it’s designed for malice ... or from a strong sense of mis-understanding about language usage.
actually capitalization does have a purpose. there is a difference in God and god
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Proceed,” “sent” — it’s the same action. The point is that the Western Church holds that the HS comes from both.

I believe a proceeding suggests a process. There is no process. It is bang, you have the Holy Spirit.

I believe God is one so when you receive the Holy Spirit, you have the Father and Son as well. So the Holy Spirit does not come from God but He is God.
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
actually capitalization does have a purpose. there is a difference in God and god
Cataway, I’m amazed at you... really!

I have already explained in the previous response on this matter.

But, ok, if you say there is a difference then rather than just say, ‘There is a difference’, you need to say what it is.
 

cataway

Well-Known Member
Cataway, I’m amazed at you... really!

I have already explained in the previous response on this matter.

But, ok, if you say there is a difference then rather than just say, ‘There is a difference’, you need to say what it is.
One of the most common questions people ask about religious words is whether to capitalize the word “god.” The name or title of any specific deity is capitalized just like any other name, so when “God” is used to refer to “the one God” . when speaking of other gods lower case is used
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Hi firedragon. Good morning. I've been looking in to this subject which I haven't looked in to for some time and I came across a quote . It says "It has been explained that in Genesis 1:1 the word for 'G-d' in the Hebrew - the language in which it was originally written - is 'Elohim' - meaning more than one Person forming one G-d - the one G-d family" That quote is from the book 'G-d Speaks Out on the New Morality' written by a collaboration of faculty members of Ambassador College, Pasadena, California.

I dont mean to offend Christians. Thats why i did not discuss the source of this information etc etc.

The book is written by the GCI which was founded by Mr. Armstrong who's incestual affair with his own daughter was an issue at his divorce trial. Jesus was supposed come during his lifetime but later he wasnt so sure.

Anyway, the source and its message that Elohim is a family is trying to superimpose an English rendering into the Bible. For me, trying to understand a hebrew text is done from a hebrew perspective, and the same goes to any other text, Greek or arabic. Thus, this is not acceptable for me.

Sorry. No offense intended to any decent individual. So i apologise in advance.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
The meaning of “Christian[ity]“, is ‘A belief in the coming, the teaching, the death, the resurrection, the glorification, the judgement, the giving of Eternal Life to worthy ones of humanity, the eternal death of unworthy ones of humanity, the final rulership over the created kingdom... by Jesus Christ’, therefore, ‘A Christian’ is a person of humanity who believes in and follows Christianity (as defined above).

I said "What does "Christian" mean? I mean the word, not some theological exegesis."

You are absolutely wrong. Try again after considering it. And i hope you understand the sentence "meaning of the word".
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
others have said its three in one . i do wish you guy's could get your story straight on what that trinity thing is
They cannot get it ‘straight’ because there is nothing to make straight about a fallacy.

YHWH is the Only God. There’s nothing more to say in that regard.

It is agreed that YHWH is immutable.
It is agreed that YHWH is a singular Being.
It is agreed that YHWH is Eternal.

Yes?

  1. But trinity claims that YHWH is three persons AS one God.
  2. But trinity claims that YHWH is an unbreakable union of three persons.
  3. But trinity claims that YHWH is a ranked organisation of three (Godhead) with the father being the highest in rank.
  4. But trinity claims that the Godhead is God.

  1. Three as one means that the three are an indivisible corporation...
  2. but yet the Son in the corporation separated (Phil 2) and became (or came into) his own creation. Trinity is broken because now there are only two in the corporation as one God.
  3. Since the three (two now) are ranked, how can they be co-equal, co-authoritive, co-almighty?
  4. The corporation cannot be ‘God’ because of 1., 2., and 3...
But back to trinity basics: Trinity claims all three are one ruler, one God. ‘EACH’ is Ruler, EACH is God. Any decision made by one is the same as any of the other two making that same decision. Anything done by any of them is the same as that made by any other one...

But it is claimed by trinity that the Father created all things... since we agree that ‘Father’ means:
  • ‘He who brings into being...’
  • ‘He who creates...’
  • ‘He who gives life to...’
  • He who is the head...’
We can easily see that ‘Father’ created.

Son... is there a definition of ‘Son’ which stresses a creative element? Absolutely none! Why? Because, ‘Son’ means:
  • ‘He who does as the Father commands’
  • ‘He who follows the spirit of the Father’
We know this to be true seeing that Jesus told some of the Jews that they were:
  • ‘Sonship of their Father... him who was a liar from the beginning..’
It is clear from this that ‘Son’ in scriptures is therefore not speaking of Procreated offspring. For certainly, Satan did not give birth to those Jews Jesus spoke of. It most certainly meant that they were:
  • ‘doing the works of Satan’ and thus ‘Satan’ was their ‘Father’!
In fact, in the same arena, Jesus denied being ‘God’ by saying to Jews that he did not call himself God, but in fact had said he was the ‘Son of God’.. and he could prove it by the works (miracles, teachings, God-given laws he upheld - different from those of Moses!) he carried out.

And further to that, Jesus defined the term, ‘Gods by expressing that YHWH had called Holy human men of the past who were rulers if mightiness in his (YHWH)’s name, ‘Gods’. This, of course, defines that ‘God’ means:
  • ‘Rulers’
  • ‘Mighty Ones’
  • ‘Judges’
You know who these holy men were... don’t you? So you know that they were not ‘Spirit God, or gods’ but simply:
  • Great rulers (David, Solomon, etc)
  • Mighty ones (Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, the prophets)
  • Judges (Deborah, Gideon, and Samson, etc)
Why are these definitions not sufficient to bring this none ending debate to a close?

(yeah yeah.. I know, I know...!)
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
One of the most common questions people ask about religious words is whether to capitalize the word “god.” The name or title of any specific deity is capitalized just like any other name, so when “God” is used to refer to “the one God” . when speaking of other gods lower case is used
S’truth, Cataway, did you not read that I said that! I’m not a dundahead as Firedragon wants to make me out to be. He can see the truth of what is say... he is just jealous because someone said it and it destroys his nafarious argument.

Please read the posts I put up earlier!
 

Misty Woods

A Child of Our Almighty Creator Jehovah
Ya think so, kiddo? You seem ready, willing, and able to identify apostates. Allow me to introduce you to a couple that I have known, and let's see if doing so modifies your "apostate" detector somewhat.
  • I am a Sampson by adoption. Mayfield was my bio-mother's husband's surname. My name, during my first 3 months, was John Sterling Mayfield. From 3 months of age until just before my 12th birthday, my name was Terry Lee Montgomery; Since the age of 12, I have been Terry Montgomery Sampson.
  • Of the nine most important people in my life, i.e. the people who loved me most, eight are dead; my wife remains with me. Of the eight, all believed in the Trinity and trusted in Jesus' promises, and none of the nine were/are biologically related to me.
  • My biological parents were married, ... but not to each other. Unable to satisfy my infant needs, my bio-mom took me to my bio-father's house when I was 3 months old, and said: "I can't take care of him; you take him"; and walked out. That was the first time my stepmother and I met, ... the day that she discovered that my bio-father had been unfaithful. She was a 61-year old, Deaf woman and had been Deaf since birth or infancy, and had probably the equivalent of a 3rd or 4th grade Deaf School education. She rescued me and changed the course that my life would have taken in a profound way. In fact, if it weren't for her, and a handful of others like her, I literally wouldn't be Terry Sampson, married, blessed, and living in Los Angeles today. I'd be John Sterling Mayfield, most likely miserable, alcoholic, dead and buried in Oklahoma. How did that happen? The Jesus she read about in the Scripture was sufficient for her. She took me in and raised me until just before my 12th birthday. [My parents and step-parents were Deaf. My first language was American Sign Language.]
  • Around my 11th birthday, Oklahoma State Department of Social Services took an interest in me and concerns were raised over the fitness of an elderly deaf woman to be a young, hearing boy's guardian. As time went on, the State authorities decided that for my good, I should be removed from the home and placed with a foster family consisting of hearing people who could support my development in spoken English. My stepmother, fearing that I would be placed in a non-Christian home, went to her pastor and told him that she wanted him to take me.
  • The Lutheran pastor and his wife took me in, with my consent. The Sampsons had five biological kids (three sons and two daughters), ranging from 5 to 12. I'm the only one they adopted.
  • All of the people important to me are important because they did things and made sacrifices for me personally that I did not ask for but which saved me from a worse fate. In summary, I have been the beneficiary from the age of 3 months of people who were not perfect but who did extraordinary things because they believed what they believed: and all believed in the Trinity. Of those people, only the preacher and one other person had a college-level education.
Mr. Sampson, it sounds like, as sad as your start was, you were certainly taken in and cared for by some very well meaning humans. My father, not only chose to be absent from my upbringing, but he and my mother signed an annulment of their marriage, for the Pope to agree to my father’s marriage to my Catholic step-mother, therefore causing me to be considered an illegitimate human. I did however obtain some truly well meaning people during my childhood that tried to instill in me, religious teachings from Baptist, Pentecostal, Methodist, Episcopalian, Lutheran, Church of Christ, and Assembly of God, that just did not make any sense to me……. At Mark 10:14-16 however, Jesus said, “Let the young children come to me; do not try to stop them, for the Kingdom of God belongs to such ones. Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the Kingdom of God like a young child will by no means enter into it.” As a mother/grandmother, I’m fully aware of how innocent and open minded young children are. If a teaching cannot be explained simply enough for a young child to truly comprehend, then the teaching must be incomprehensible…… Where there is confusion, there is disorder, and 1 Cor. 14:33 states “For God is a God not of disorder but of peace”

I do firmly believe 2 Tim 3:16,17, thatAll Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.” ---- Therefore, I must also accept 2 Cor. 6:14-18 which states “Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers. For what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have? Or what sharing does light have with darkness? Further, what harmony is there between Christ and Beʹli·al? Or what does a believer share in common with an unbeliever? And what agreement does God’s temple have with idols? For we are a temple of a living God; just as God said: “I will reside among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.” “‘Therefore, get out from among them, and separate yourselves,’ says Jehovah, ‘and quit touching the unclean thing’”; “‘and I will take you in.’” 18 “‘And I will become a father to you, and you will become sons and daughters to me,’ says Jehovah, the Almighty.” ….. For me to understand who these ‘unbelievers’ are that I should separate myself from, and exactly what is the ‘unclean thing’ that I should not touch, has taken me a tremendous amount of research and meditation. I have not received any man’s college education, and I’m truly grateful for that, since man is mostly corrupt. Jesus was a carpenter, Matthew was a tax collector (Mt 9:9-13), Simon Peter and Andrew were fishermen (Mt 4:18-21),, In fact, the educated rulers, elders, scribes, as well as the chief priest that had Jesus executed, took note that most all of Jesus disciples were uneducated (unlettered) and ordinary men (Acts 4)

1 John 1:5-10 states, “…….God is light, and there is no darkness at all in him…. If we make the statement, “We are having fellowship with him,” and yet we go on walking in the darkness, we are lying and are not practicing the truth. However, if we are walking in the light as he himself is in the light, we do have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. If we make the statement, “We have no sin,” we are misleading ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous so as to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we make the statement, “We have not sinned,” we are making him a liar, and his word is not in us. 1 John 1

In no way do I believe that well meaning people are intentionally bad, but I do know that Rev.12:9 states that Satan is misleading the entire inhabited earth, and Matthew 7:21-23 states “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’ This warning from Jesus certainly sounds serious enough to me, that I should be very careful to learn the truth from all of the lies, and the more I learn our Creator, and our Lord Jesus, the brighter my path becomes. “Just as the light of the sun continues to get brighter from dawn until the day is firmly established, so the path of the righteous ones, illuminated by godly wisdom, gets lighter and lighter.” Prov. 4:18

Sir, which is wiser? ------To make the clear statements of scripture conform to our conceptions of what may be implied ?,,, -------Or to believe the clear teaching of scripture, and accept that these perceived implications might be due to our misunderstanding of scripture or completely in error?


 

Misty Woods

A Child of Our Almighty Creator Jehovah
The OP is asking a specific question. Thanks, you make sense but its not relevant to the OP. Yet, this thread like any other has been derailed by some people who have no capacity to understand relevance. So i suppose its all good.

But if you think that the concept of the trinity was developed in the 4th century you and whoever taught you this historically non-factual.


In the fourth century C.E., the apostasy foretold by Jesus and the apostles came into full bloom. In no way does this state that the concept of the trinity was developed in the 4th century. So I guess in regards to my statement concerning the apostasy being foretold during the fourth century by Jesus and the apostles stumps your own capacity to understand?
"Better is the end of a matter than its beginning. Better to be patient than to be haughty in spirit. Do not be quick to take offense, for the taking of offense lodges in the bosom of fools" Ecclesiastes 7:8,9
 
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cataway

Well-Known Member
One of the most common questions people ask about religious words is whether to capitalize the word “god.” The name or title of any specific deity is capitalized just like any other name, so when “God” is used to refer to “the one God” (in other words, in any monotheistic religion), it is capitalized.Apr 11, 2019
all other
I said "What does "Christian" mean? I mean the word, not some theological exegesis."

You are absolutely wrong. Try again after considering it. And i hope you understand the sentence "meaning of the word".
actually its a word coined by the roman's . its the word the soldiers used to refer to the follower's of Jesus . it caught on and the rest is history
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
all other

actually its a word coined by the roman's . its the word the soldiers used to refer to the follower's of Jesus . it caught on and the rest is history

I asked for the meaning of the word, not how it came about or what it represents.
 
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