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The trinity in the old testament

PearlSeeker

PearlSeeker

Well-Known Member
tigger2 said:
Everything in the writings of the Gospel writers (and especially in the Greek writings of John) shows this. The links of my personal studies prove it.
Click to expand...
The original text doesn't use any articles. It uses the same word twice. Yes, it seems that "was with God" and "was God" are logically incompatible but in the context it makes sense:

Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!” (John 20:28)​
​
No one has seen God at any time; God the only Son, who is in the arms of the Father, He has explained Him. (John 1:18)​
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I and the Father are one. (John 10:30)​
​
Philip *said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” Jesus *said to him, “Have I been with you for so long a time, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? The one who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own, but the Father, as He remains in Me, does His works. Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves. (John 14)​

What would "a god" mean? Where else is "a god" in GofJohn? There is only one God mentioned.
 
TiggerII

TiggerII

Active Member
PearlSeeker said:
The original text doesn't use any articles. It uses the same word twice. Yes, it seems that "was with God" and "was God" are logically incompatible but in the context it makes sense:

Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!” (John 20:28)​
​
No one has seen God at any time; God the only Son, who is in the arms of the Father, He has explained Him. (John 1:18)​
​
I and the Father are one. (John 10:30)​
​
Philip *said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” Jesus *said to him, “Have I been with you for so long a time, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? The one who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own, but the Father, as He remains in Me, does His works. Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves. (John 14)​

What would "a god" mean? Where else is "a god" in GofJohn? There is only one God mentioned.
Click to expand...

This, too, is explained in my studies which you continue to ignore.
 
PearlSeeker

PearlSeeker

Well-Known Member
tigger2 said:
This, too, is explained in my studies which you continue to ignore.
Click to expand...
I didn't ignore your studies. It's just impossible to prove anything without context.

Ancient Greek does not have an indefinite article like the English word a, and nominatives without articles also have a range of meanings that require context to interpret. (Wiki)​
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We have to know what was the writer's theology.

The commonly held theology that Jesus is God naturally leads one to believe that the proper way to render the verse is the one which is most popular.[23] The opposing theology that Jesus is subordinate to God as his Chief agent leads to the conclusion that "... a god" or "... divine" is the proper rendering.[24] (Wiki)​
​
en.m.wikipedia.org

John 1:1 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org
 
YoursTrue

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
PearlSeeker said:
The strongest verse is "the Word was with God and the Word was God" (John 1).
Click to expand...
Not every translator agrees with that translation. Before I get into more substance about the Greek and various English translations, please notice John 1:1 says the Word WAS with God, and the Word WAS God. (Not is God.)
 
PearlSeeker

PearlSeeker

Well-Known Member
YoursTrue said:
Not every translator agrees with that translation. Before I get into more substance about the Greek and various English translations, please notice John 1:1 says the Word WAS with God, and the Word WAS God. (Not is God.)
Click to expand...
Yes, this "was" refers to the phrase "in the beginning". It's not "became" or "was created".
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
" The trinity in the old testament "

PearlSeeker said:
The strongest verse is "the Word was with God and the Word was God" (John 1).
paarsurrey said:
The verse “ John 1 ” referenced and quoted by one in one's post is not from (Jesus)- Yeshua- the Israelite Messiah, please, right?:

Holy Bible King James Version (Red Letter Edition)
The Roman Catholic Holy Bible with the words of Jesus in red.
World Messianic Bible

Right?
Click to expand...
Further, “ John 1 ” is not from the old testament, please, right?
so, one agrees that there is no trinity in the old testament, and it could never be, as trinity is fabrication and or a haux/hoax of the Hellenist-Pauline-Church, please, right?

Regards
 
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