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The Trinity
- Thread starter thriftypassenger
- Start date
ApologeticsCatholic
Member
as posted before
If you belive that God, the father and son and holy spirit or all the same god (according to the bible as is no added theology ,they are) And while Jesus (spirit/ word of god) was being baptized by John and the Sky opened and the Holy spirit (god) flew out of the in the form of a dove and God (God) spoke then all 3 forms of God where in one place at one time , now either God is Tri-une or you worship Multiple Gods. God refers to himself in the OT in Genisis in the Story of creation as "our" "us" "we" im sure him and the angels didnt make the Earth moon and sky he was calling himself "we" becasue he is Tri-une,
"Let US make man in OUR image": Three plural pronouns, (We, Us, Our) used 6 different times in four different passages: Gen 1:26; 3:22; 11:7; Isa 6:8. The unanimous opinion of the apostolic Fathers was that the Father was talking to Jesus.
"Then Yahweh [on earth in human form] rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from Yahweh [in spirit form in heaven] out of heaven. Genesis 19:24. In this text Abraham is visited by three individuals, one being Yahweh and the other two angels. Here we have God on the earth (Jesus) and God in heaven (father) sending down fire from heaven. This incident when Abraham met with Yahweh God, is what Jesus referred to when he said, "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad." (John 8:56) The unanimous opinion of the apostolic Fathers was that Jesus visited Abraham in Genesis 18 and 19.
Isaiah saw the glory of Yahweh, but John says that Isaiah really saw the glory of Christ. This proves Jesus is Yahweh. Combine this with the fact the Yahweh said, "Who will go for US" is a plural pronoun indicating more than one person in the Godhead.
Jesus echoes the "I AM" statements in Isaiah chapters 40-55. This spectacular link explores over 20 different passages in Isaiah and John.
I have sworn by Myself, The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness And will not turn back, That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance. "They will say of Me, 'Only in the Lord are righteousness and strength.' Men will come to Him, And all who were angry at Him shall be put to shame.
But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Too little to be among the clans of Judah, From you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel. His goings forth are from long ago, From the days of eternity
But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Too little to be among the clans of Judah, From you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel. His goings forth are from long ago, From the days of eternity
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.
Shema Israel YHWH elohanu YHWH echad --- Why in deut 6:4 would we hear that Yawwh is "one" unless there was some signifiagance? like Trinity.
I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name—the name you gave me—so that they may be one as we are one. (John 17:11)
I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: (John 17:22)
If you belive that God, the father and son and holy spirit or all the same god (according to the bible as is no added theology ,they are) And while Jesus (spirit/ word of god) was being baptized by John and the Sky opened and the Holy spirit (god) flew out of the in the form of a dove and God (God) spoke then all 3 forms of God where in one place at one time , now either God is Tri-une or you worship Multiple Gods. God refers to himself in the OT in Genisis in the Story of creation as "our" "us" "we" im sure him and the angels didnt make the Earth moon and sky he was calling himself "we" becasue he is Tri-une,
"Let US make man in OUR image": Three plural pronouns, (We, Us, Our) used 6 different times in four different passages: Gen 1:26; 3:22; 11:7; Isa 6:8. The unanimous opinion of the apostolic Fathers was that the Father was talking to Jesus.
"Then Yahweh [on earth in human form] rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from Yahweh [in spirit form in heaven] out of heaven. Genesis 19:24. In this text Abraham is visited by three individuals, one being Yahweh and the other two angels. Here we have God on the earth (Jesus) and God in heaven (father) sending down fire from heaven. This incident when Abraham met with Yahweh God, is what Jesus referred to when he said, "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad." (John 8:56) The unanimous opinion of the apostolic Fathers was that Jesus visited Abraham in Genesis 18 and 19.
Isaiah saw the glory of Yahweh, but John says that Isaiah really saw the glory of Christ. This proves Jesus is Yahweh. Combine this with the fact the Yahweh said, "Who will go for US" is a plural pronoun indicating more than one person in the Godhead.
Jesus echoes the "I AM" statements in Isaiah chapters 40-55. This spectacular link explores over 20 different passages in Isaiah and John.
I have sworn by Myself, The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness And will not turn back, That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance. "They will say of Me, 'Only in the Lord are righteousness and strength.' Men will come to Him, And all who were angry at Him shall be put to shame.
But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Too little to be among the clans of Judah, From you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel. His goings forth are from long ago, From the days of eternity
But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Too little to be among the clans of Judah, From you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel. His goings forth are from long ago, From the days of eternity
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.
Shema Israel YHWH elohanu YHWH echad --- Why in deut 6:4 would we hear that Yawwh is "one" unless there was some signifiagance? like Trinity.
I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name—the name you gave me—so that they may be one as we are one. (John 17:11)
I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: (John 17:22)
ApologeticsCatholic
Member
For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.
Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad." The Jews therefore said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple.
"I and the Father are one." The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. … Has it not been written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’?"
A simple reading of the context of John 12 makes it clear that John is saying that Isaiah saw the glory of Jesus Christ himself in Isaiah 6. This proves Jesus is Yahweh.
The Jews answered him, "We have a law, and by that law He ought to die because He made Himself out to be the Son of God."
For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me, And every tongue shall give praise to God."
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all
"Therefore also God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
And there shall no longer be any curse; and the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His bond-servants shall [latreuo] serve Him."
He doesnt use the word or term Tri-Une or Trinity but god is easily 3 entity's in One god. How many times does he refer himself as One as We , us , our? why would he and why would jesus claim to be one with god
Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad." The Jews therefore said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple.
"I and the Father are one." The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. … Has it not been written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’?"
A simple reading of the context of John 12 makes it clear that John is saying that Isaiah saw the glory of Jesus Christ himself in Isaiah 6. This proves Jesus is Yahweh.
The Jews answered him, "We have a law, and by that law He ought to die because He made Himself out to be the Son of God."
For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me, And every tongue shall give praise to God."
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all
"Therefore also God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
And there shall no longer be any curse; and the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His bond-servants shall [latreuo] serve Him."
He doesnt use the word or term Tri-Une or Trinity but god is easily 3 entity's in One god. How many times does he refer himself as One as We , us , our? why would he and why would jesus claim to be one with god
30 Jesus does make these statements. He does not see himself as having a separate identity from the Father which is basically what the Doctrine of the Trinity suggests.
Saying that the persons don't have separate personalities breaks the definition of person.
Distinct. Not separate
If God has one identity He is one but if He has three identities He is three and therefore not one.
To the contrary: He's 3-1, Plural-Singular (Gen 1:26-27; etc)
Since the Bible says that He is one, the three persons concept is totally bogus and borders on idolatry.
To the contrary: 30's concept's bogus and's heretical vis a vis the apostles' and prophets' teaching
It ought to be obvious that God is not a body, He is a spirit as the Bible states.
The Bible (in fact the same Gospel) also states God (the Word) became flesh
35 If one cannot rationalize the basic doctrine enough to even explain it to someone else, how can this messege be spread?
i assume 35's speaking for herself. And not necessarily for others.
In any case the Word is the Message. And the Word is a person. Someone may not be able to rationalize u. But they may, and can, still meet, and fall in love w/, u
Full comprehensive knowledge of the essence of Allah I don't think can be had by us. However, even with that being the case, if it is the intention of God to reveal to humans an all important messege-without which we will be doomed according to some-then it would make sense for God to at least present us with an aspect of His nature that we can handle.
u can handle the ThreeOne's mysteriousness
36 idea of the trinity was made up,
To the contrary: I Am's without beginning and without end, self-existing and ever-existing. It's u who were made out of dirt by Him
45 Can I find any scripture that mentions Trinity?
Can anyone think of why there's a need?
Can I find any scripture that says that God is made up of three distinct persons, Father, Son, and holy spirit, but that the three are only one God?
Yes.
Matthew 28:19.
"Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."
"Name" singular. "Father, Son, Holy Spirit" 3 nouns. Plural.
Has 45 ever read the Bible?
Can I find any scripture that says that the Father, Son, and holy spirit are equal in all ways, such as in eternity, power, position, and wisdom?
"God" is equal in all ways. God is Father, Luke 1:32. God is Son, Titus 2:13; John 20:28-29; 8:58. God is Holy Spirit, John 4:24; Acts 5:3-4
Nowhere does the Bible equate the holy spirit with the Father.
To the contrary: "The Spirit of your Father" Matthew 10:20.
"The Spirit of Reality who proceeds from the Father will testify concerning Me" John 15:26.
(There's another verse with the Three in One.) "Son of the Most High" Luke 1:32 +
"that which's been begotten in her is of the Holy Spirit" Matthew 1:20
I would be interested in hearing your opinion on this!
hear it iz
50 the traditional cop-out that it is a mystery.
if 50 himself, or his human life,'s mysterious; why can't God be?
56 The problem is that the Trinity is more than just "parts" of the same person. It's more than just "God putting on different hats."
Your spirit, soul, and body (55) r more than hats. They're u.
71 You are the husband of someone else, someone who is not the same "being" as you are.
God made mankind in His/Their image, Gen 1:26-27. Not vice versa.
In any case: "and the two shall become one flesh" 2:24.
The trinitarian approach to God requires that God be one "Being."
amen.
The first commandment is Hear, Israel: the Lord our God's one Lord, Mark 12:29; Deut 6:4
If the Father and the Son are a single Being, then God must be His own Father and His own Son.
That's right God is Father, and God is Son.
God is Singular. And God is Plural. And God is fecund. Simultaneously. Eternally. Genesis 1:26-27; Matthew 28:19; John 1:1-2; 10:38
What kind of sense does that make?
God-sense
It is impossible for someone to be either a father or a son unless that person has a relationship to some other being.
To the contrary: God Being includes Relationship. And begetting. God's both Being, and Relationship. The original Relationship. The original Being. He's 3-1
I would be truly interested to hear your comments on this.
Hear were mine
80 Even though the Bible does say they are "one," it does not describe the way in which they are one.
To the contrary. Very soon after the God-man-Son says He and His Father are one (Jn 10:30); the GodManSon describes the way. "The Father's in Me and I'm in the Father" 10:38.
Jesus prayed that His followers would also be "one," in the same way in which He and His Father are "one." Do you think He was asking that we all be absorbed into the essence of the Trinity?
Yes. And would "absorb" the essence of the Trinity. As the embodiment of the Trinity Himself said through His apostle: "Christ in you, the hope of glory" Colossians 1:27; "Christ our life" Colossians 3:4
My husband and I have been married for 36 years and are extremely happy. We two are "one," but right now, he's at work and I'm home typing this post.
U and your husband r not God. At best, you're a "picture" of Him (Genesis 1:26) and of His purposes (2:24). "For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother and shall be joined to his wife, and the two shall be one flesh. This mystery's great, but I speak with regard to Christ and the church, Ephesians 5:31-32
83 A trinitarian approach would mean three beings.
To the contrary: The name [singular] of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Mt 28:19.
The first commandment is Hear, Israel: the Lord our God's one Lord, Mark 12:29
the Father was not embodied.
To the contrary: all the fulness of the Godhead dwells in the Son bodily, Colossians 2:9.
Believe Me that I'm in the Father and the Father's in Me, John 14:10
84 What deeply disturbs me is that after all was said and done, not one post described the trinity with anything other than conjecture.
That's untrue
Not one post was able to sum up the concept of the trinity in a simple, direct, unconfusing, and logical manner.
That's untrue
89 not one christian, who holds the idea of trinity as a truth and in the highest esteem, could explain it.
Thas untru
Just saying that God is three personages but one God, would be acceptable only if one never inquired further. Once you get into the why's and how's of the trinity it gets confusing. Then when it gets too hard for those of us who don't understand it, t gets passed off as a "mystery".
To the contrary, kinda like your human life, and all life, God's mysterious from the get-go
97 when the promised goods(eternal life) are not delivered, the customers(believers) are not around to complain.
i got eternal life. I'm around. In fact, i'm postin rite now
Saying that the persons don't have separate personalities breaks the definition of person.
Distinct. Not separate
If God has one identity He is one but if He has three identities He is three and therefore not one.
To the contrary: He's 3-1, Plural-Singular (Gen 1:26-27; etc)
Since the Bible says that He is one, the three persons concept is totally bogus and borders on idolatry.
To the contrary: 30's concept's bogus and's heretical vis a vis the apostles' and prophets' teaching
It ought to be obvious that God is not a body, He is a spirit as the Bible states.
The Bible (in fact the same Gospel) also states God (the Word) became flesh
35 If one cannot rationalize the basic doctrine enough to even explain it to someone else, how can this messege be spread?
i assume 35's speaking for herself. And not necessarily for others.
In any case the Word is the Message. And the Word is a person. Someone may not be able to rationalize u. But they may, and can, still meet, and fall in love w/, u
Full comprehensive knowledge of the essence of Allah I don't think can be had by us. However, even with that being the case, if it is the intention of God to reveal to humans an all important messege-without which we will be doomed according to some-then it would make sense for God to at least present us with an aspect of His nature that we can handle.
u can handle the ThreeOne's mysteriousness
36 idea of the trinity was made up,
To the contrary: I Am's without beginning and without end, self-existing and ever-existing. It's u who were made out of dirt by Him
45 Can I find any scripture that mentions Trinity?
Can anyone think of why there's a need?
Can I find any scripture that says that God is made up of three distinct persons, Father, Son, and holy spirit, but that the three are only one God?
Yes.
Matthew 28:19.
"Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."
"Name" singular. "Father, Son, Holy Spirit" 3 nouns. Plural.
Has 45 ever read the Bible?
Can I find any scripture that says that the Father, Son, and holy spirit are equal in all ways, such as in eternity, power, position, and wisdom?
"God" is equal in all ways. God is Father, Luke 1:32. God is Son, Titus 2:13; John 20:28-29; 8:58. God is Holy Spirit, John 4:24; Acts 5:3-4
Nowhere does the Bible equate the holy spirit with the Father.
To the contrary: "The Spirit of your Father" Matthew 10:20.
"The Spirit of Reality who proceeds from the Father will testify concerning Me" John 15:26.
(There's another verse with the Three in One.) "Son of the Most High" Luke 1:32 +
"that which's been begotten in her is of the Holy Spirit" Matthew 1:20
I would be interested in hearing your opinion on this!
hear it iz
50 the traditional cop-out that it is a mystery.
if 50 himself, or his human life,'s mysterious; why can't God be?
56 The problem is that the Trinity is more than just "parts" of the same person. It's more than just "God putting on different hats."
Your spirit, soul, and body (55) r more than hats. They're u.
71 You are the husband of someone else, someone who is not the same "being" as you are.
God made mankind in His/Their image, Gen 1:26-27. Not vice versa.
In any case: "and the two shall become one flesh" 2:24.
The trinitarian approach to God requires that God be one "Being."
amen.
The first commandment is Hear, Israel: the Lord our God's one Lord, Mark 12:29; Deut 6:4
If the Father and the Son are a single Being, then God must be His own Father and His own Son.
That's right God is Father, and God is Son.
God is Singular. And God is Plural. And God is fecund. Simultaneously. Eternally. Genesis 1:26-27; Matthew 28:19; John 1:1-2; 10:38
What kind of sense does that make?
God-sense
It is impossible for someone to be either a father or a son unless that person has a relationship to some other being.
To the contrary: God Being includes Relationship. And begetting. God's both Being, and Relationship. The original Relationship. The original Being. He's 3-1
I would be truly interested to hear your comments on this.
Hear were mine
80 Even though the Bible does say they are "one," it does not describe the way in which they are one.
To the contrary. Very soon after the God-man-Son says He and His Father are one (Jn 10:30); the GodManSon describes the way. "The Father's in Me and I'm in the Father" 10:38.
Jesus prayed that His followers would also be "one," in the same way in which He and His Father are "one." Do you think He was asking that we all be absorbed into the essence of the Trinity?
Yes. And would "absorb" the essence of the Trinity. As the embodiment of the Trinity Himself said through His apostle: "Christ in you, the hope of glory" Colossians 1:27; "Christ our life" Colossians 3:4
My husband and I have been married for 36 years and are extremely happy. We two are "one," but right now, he's at work and I'm home typing this post.
U and your husband r not God. At best, you're a "picture" of Him (Genesis 1:26) and of His purposes (2:24). "For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother and shall be joined to his wife, and the two shall be one flesh. This mystery's great, but I speak with regard to Christ and the church, Ephesians 5:31-32
83 A trinitarian approach would mean three beings.
To the contrary: The name [singular] of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Mt 28:19.
The first commandment is Hear, Israel: the Lord our God's one Lord, Mark 12:29
the Father was not embodied.
To the contrary: all the fulness of the Godhead dwells in the Son bodily, Colossians 2:9.
Believe Me that I'm in the Father and the Father's in Me, John 14:10
84 What deeply disturbs me is that after all was said and done, not one post described the trinity with anything other than conjecture.
That's untrue
Not one post was able to sum up the concept of the trinity in a simple, direct, unconfusing, and logical manner.
That's untrue
89 not one christian, who holds the idea of trinity as a truth and in the highest esteem, could explain it.
Thas untru
Just saying that God is three personages but one God, would be acceptable only if one never inquired further. Once you get into the why's and how's of the trinity it gets confusing. Then when it gets too hard for those of us who don't understand it, t gets passed off as a "mystery".
To the contrary, kinda like your human life, and all life, God's mysterious from the get-go
97 when the promised goods(eternal life) are not delivered, the customers(believers) are not around to complain.
i got eternal life. I'm around. In fact, i'm postin rite now
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beckysoup61 said:
hmmm, I don't know. Hygiene maybe?