The Trinity

[Shermana]

Thought I'd add, Matthew 28:19 is quoted by Eusebius 20 times and it ends with "In my name", there appears to be a direct interpolation (and also in "Ignatius's epistles") in the text.

 

[Pegg]

I think it is equally appropriate to call the Holy spirit "he" as It tends to be a "Language" thing, rather than a description of sexuality.
In the main faiths, The holy spirit is said to emanate from the Father and the Son, or as far as the Eastern churches maintain, the Father alone. The Holy spirit is also seen as a "person".
The Unitarian beliefs are far less certain about the "nature" of the Holy Spirit" Whilst your JW followers have a rather unique reading of the Bible, that seems to get more from it than others can find.

I have little difficulty seeing the Trinity as three separate persons, and if that makes me polytheistic in other peoples eyes, then so be it.

we agree on the point that they are most certainly three separate persons...although we dont view the holy spirit as a person, it is Gods power... but Jesus and God are most definitely separate individuals in our understanding of the bible.

the angels and Jesus and the bible writers repeatedly call him a 'son'... it would make no sense to do this if he were God himself.

 

[Adonis65]

I would say in purpose the Godhead is 1+1+1 = 1

In entity it's 1+1+1 = 3

 

[Shermana]

I would say in purpose the Godhead is 1+1+1 = 1

In entity it's 1+1+1 = 3

If Jesus says "The Father is Greater than I" then it can't possibly be 1 and 1 and 1.

It would have to be something like 1 and 1.5 and .5 or 1 and 1.9 and .1 for Jesus to not be incorrect when he says "The Father is Greater than I".

And for the record, the word "Godhead" is often misused, it is olde English for "Godhede" which means "Godhood". The word is a Qualitative noun. You can see it used as a description like "Christ's godhead" in old texts. It's not an Entity but a Quality.

 

[Jordan St. Francis]

The Father is greater than the Son only in the sense that the Father is in some sense the root or foundation of the Godhead. The Son is begotten. The Spirit proceeds. Whereas the Father begets and the Spirit proceeds from Him. It does not make the Son or Spirit anything less than fully God.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The Father is greater than the Son only in the sense that the Father is in some sense the root or foundation of the Godhead. The Son is begotten. The Spirit proceeds. Whereas the Father begets and the Spirit proceeds from Him. It does not make the Son or Spirit anything less than fully God.

At Pentecost [Acts 2v4] when all present became filled with holy spirit did they all become fully God?

God nor Jesus are ever referred to as being an 'it' or 'itself'
Yet at Romans 8 vs16 and 26 God's holy spirit is referred to as: itself.

 

[Adonis65]

If Jesus says "The Father is Greater than I" then it can't possibly be 1 and 1 and 1.

It would have to be something like 1 and 1.5 and .5 or 1 and 1.9 and .1 for Jesus to not be incorrect when he says "The Father is Greater than I".

And for the record, the word "Godhead" is often misused, it is olde English for "Godhede" which means "Godhood". The word is a Qualitative noun. You can see it used as a description like "Christ's godhead" in old texts. It's not an Entity but a Quality.

No it isn't. It's God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost: 1 + 1 + 1 = 3 distinct personages. All separate gods, all sharing the same purpose.

To simplify:

1 + 1 + 1 = 3 personages sharing one purpose.

Your equation doesn't make any sense, for 1 + 1.5 + 1.9 = 4.4 personages. There's no such thing.

 

[sojourner]

The Father is greater than the Son only in the sense that the Father is in some sense the root or foundation of the Godhead. The Son is begotten. The Spirit proceeds. Whereas the Father begets and the Spirit proceeds from Him. It does not make the Son or Spirit anything less than fully God.

Love your answer. The rest of this is all smoke-filled, coffee-house crap.

 

[outhouse]

No it isn't. It's God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost: 1 + 1 + 1 = 3 distinct personages. All separate gods, all sharing the same purpose.

To simplify:

1 + 1 + 1 = 3 personages sharing one purpose.

Your equation doesn't make any sense, for 1 + 1.5 + 1.9 = 4.4 personages. There's no such thing.

the math is wrong


they dont share one purpose, after a few council hearings by bishops over a 75 ish year period. It was found there are all one in the same, but not lol


the trinity is a man made concept to keep the religion monotheistic in my opinion.

for whats its worth at the vatican they did a study of who was prayed to the most and least ,,,,,, jesus was #6 on the list. as far as im concerned that makes the religion polytheistic

 

[Shermana]

Love your answer. The rest of this is all smoke-filled, coffee-house crap.

The Father knows things that Jesus doesn't, is that included in the answer?

 

[Jordan St. Francis]

At Pentecost [Acts 2v4] when all present became filled with holy spirit did they all become fully God?

God nor Jesus are ever referred to as being an 'it' or 'itself'
Yet at Romans 8 vs16 and 26 God's holy spirit is referred to as: itself.

No, they did not become fully God. But they began the process of deification. They, though created creatures, were becoming sharers in the uncreated life of God: the Son and the Spirit like two outstretched arms of the Father, bringing them back to Him.

 

[Shermana]

No, they did not become fully God. But they began the process of deification. They, though created creatures, were becoming sharers in the uncreated life of God: the Son and the Spirit like two outstretched arms of the Father, bringing them back to Him.

Sounds like Mormonism.....

 

[Adonis65]

the math is wrong


they dont share one purpose, after a few council hearings by bishops over a 75 ish year period. It was found there are all one in the same, but not lol


the trinity is a man made concept to keep the religion monotheistic in my opinion.

for whats its worth at the vatican they did a study of who was prayed to the most and least ,,,,,, jesus was #6 on the list. as far as im concerned that makes the religion polytheistic

The math is as correct as it gets.

After revelation from God, prophets have confirmed that there is a godhead, afterall. Anything aside from this is humanistic opinion sharing.

Jesus never entered any popularity contests, and he certainly doesn't want His church going whichever way the wind blows.

 

[outhouse]

The math is as correct as it gets.

After revelation from God, prophets have confirmed that there is a godhead, afterall. Anything aside from this is humanistic opinion sharing.

Jesus never entered any popularity contests, and he certainly doesn't want His church going whichever way the wind blows.

no prophets confirmed the godhead, Constantine is the one who RULED jesus is the same as the father LONG before the trinity was established

there is also not one shred of trinity in the gospels, and the unknown gospel authors themsleves are not even known to be prophets.

 

[Jordan St. Francis]

Sounds like Mormonism.....

Nope. Mormonism denies the co-eternity of the Persons as well as their consubstantiality.

 

[InChrist]

If Jesus says "The Father is Greater than I" then it can't possibly be 1 and 1 and 1.

It would have to be something like 1 and 1.5 and .5 or 1 and 1.9 and .1 for Jesus to not be incorrect when he says "The Father is Greater than I".

And for the record, the word "Godhead" is often misused, it is olde English for "Godhede" which means "Godhood". The word is a Qualitative noun. You can see it used as a description like "Christ's godhead" in old texts. It's not an Entity but a Quality.

[FONT=&quot]Jesus said his Father was greater than him because the Father holds the greater position in the Godhead. Especially while Jesus was on earth in his humanity, he referred to his Father’s greater position in heaven. Never in the Scriptures did Jesus say His Father was better than he was, or of a superior nature. There are two different Greek words for greater (meizon) and better (kreitton).The president of the United States has a greater position than a truck driver but that does not make the truck driver any less equal of a human being, does it?[/FONT]

 

[Shermana]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus said his Father was greater than him because the Father holds the greater position in the Godhead. Especially while Jesus was on earth in his humanity, he referred to his Father’s greater position in heaven. Never in the Scriptures did Jesus say His Father was better than he was, or of a superior nature. There are two different Greek words for greater (meizon) and better (kreitton).The president of the United States has a greater position than a truck driver but that does not make the truck driver any less equal of a human being, does it?[/FONT]

As I've said before, there is no such thing as "The" Godhead, the word "Theotetos" translates to "godhood", and so does the word "Godhead" in its original olde English translation. All this talk about "natures" was 4th century Greek wordplay. What is "nature"?

If there is a separate "aspect" of the Father which is "greater" in authority and position than another, that would mean another BEING altogether.

 

[InChrist]

[FONT=&quot]I believe that when the scriptures are read as a whole the Trinity or triune nature of God is revealed throughout its pages. In the Old Testament, though there are hints of the trinity, God revealed Himself as One Being. The trinity is not that three persons are one person (no three-headed God) or that there are three beings that are one being (not three Gods). There is a difference between the terms being and person. The scriptures teach that all things have being, but only God, humans, and angels are personal. It is my being that makes me human, but my personality differentiates me from all other humans. I am a finite being meaning that only one person can subsist in my being and that is me. God’s Being is infinite and the scriptures reveal that the three persons of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit compose and share all the same qualities and attributes of the Being of God.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] God revealed Himself as ONE to separate Israel and distinguish Himself, the true God, from all the false gods or idols of the surrounding cultures. That God is ONE was shown to Israel by God Himself and all the prophets gave testimony of this. It was this understanding Peter, James, Paul and all the apostles were committed to until God further revealed Himself through Jesus Christ. Jesus fulfilled the prophetic word concerning the Savior who would come. God had already declared numerous times in the Old Testament that He alone was the Savior, there is no other. Jesus has the same titles in the New Testament as Jehovah, or more accurately Yahweh has in the Old Testament. Jesus displayed the power and attributes of God. Jesus forgave sin which only God can do. Jesus knew the thoughts of men which only God knows. Jesus brought the dead back to life which only God has the power to accomplish. Paul’s life was so changed by Jesus Christ that he turned from killing Christians to devoting his entire life to the name and Person of Jesus Christ, because he knew Jesus was God… And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory. 1 Tim. 3:16[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]All of the apostles except John were martyred because of their faith and devotion to Jesus Christ. They would not deny His name (or deity) because they each understood that He was God … Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood Acts 20:28. Thomas also understood when he said “My Lord and my God. “, which literally translated from the Greek is the Lord of me and the God of me. The apostles came to believe and understand the triune nature God had revealed to them and baptized new believers in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I see that Peter affirmed this truth about Jesus Christ and gave warning against those who would teach otherwise about difficult concepts such as the trinity… Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen. 2Peter 3:14-18[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The Trinity and the Deity of Christ are the two most denied and attacked doctrines of the Christian faith, yet the scriptures show that Yahweh of the Old Testament is revealed as Jesus Christ in the New Testament. The Old Testament and the New Testament are testimonies of Jesus Christ the Son of God and the second Person of the Triune God, Creator of heaven and earth.[/FONT]

 

[Jordan St. Francis]

Or perhaps what you thought sounded like Mormonism was "divinization". I am not sure what the LDS means by that, but the classical Christian meaning has its origins in 2 Peter 1:4 (and of course, incarnational theology):

"That you might become partakers in the divine nature"

God's divinity---simply what he is by the fact that he is, what each Person shares in uncompromisingly---is something offered to us to partake in by grace. That is divinization.

 

[Adonis65]

no prophets confirmed the godhead,

As far as you know.

Constantine is the one who RULED jesus is the same as the father LONG before the trinity was established

Constantine was the temporal ruler, not the spiritual ruler.

there is also not one shred of trinity in the gospels, and the unknown gospel authors themsleves are not even known to be prophets.

There are multiple shreds in the gospels. Would you like to discuss them one by one?