The Trinity

[moorea944]

[When incarnated, Jesus gives up the authority/GLORY he had in heaven to do the will of his father, not his own. He makes his will subject to that of the father while incarnated-if this cup can pass, if not, thy will be done thingy.]
Jesus was never incarnated. And he never gives up anything. Are there any verses that say that?

 

[Yes]

What have we looked at so far? Rock, Savior, who made things, who restores life. It is all relative. None of that conclusively proves that the Son is God and that God is the Son. All it means God is using his Son to have his will accomplished. Also there was a valid reason to understand how Jehovah and Jesus would have differing reasons to use the words "the first and the last" in reference to themselves. Every argument so far has had a counter argument. And Jesus truly is God's closest relative - by blood or not - the only creation formed exclusively by Jehovah's hands.

What is wrong with plain speech and plain teachings as presented in the Bible? Father-Son is a relationship we all understand. If Jesus is God was truth, one would think that the Family relationship of Twins would be used instead.

Twins? When someone comes forth from you it is called your son, or your daughter. Jesus comes forth from God and is called a Son. That is what humans are called.

Only Jehovah is called Almighty.

God says Jesus would be called God, Father, and Holy Spirit. That is what I call him.

See Isaiah 9:6

Only Jehovah was immortal till Jesus was resurrected to a body immune to death.

Jesus resurrected himself.

Only Jehovah is called the Most High over all the earth. - Psalm 83:18

Now you are arguing about words that you should not. Jesus says he is the First and the Last, the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End.

God says Jesus would be called Mighty God, and everlasting Father.

The scriptures say we will all bow to Jesus, that he is light, everything was made through him, they are his commands, he sends the Holy Spirit, and he gives life. Those are the exact things that the Bible says about God the Father.

Jesus subjected himself to God's will by becoming human, he subjected himself as he always did the Father's will while here on the earth. He will subject himself when all things subjected to him by God are fully in harmony with God's will and purpose again. Interesting theme. Jesus is ALWAYS in submission to his Father, from the distant past into the distant future.

Jesus is God's first creation. God made Himself the glorified body of the Man Jesus before He made anything, and then He made the world through Jesus...through God. That is what the BIBLE SAYS.

 

[Yes]

It is very possible that he took the 40 days to assimilate restored memories from his life as an angel.

Don't you have any fear of God? You are going beyond what is written as if it were truth.

 

[Yes]

Colossians says he emptied himself. When he was human he was no longer any more or any less than human. But it is likely that when he was anointed with the holy spirit that his memories from his previous life would have been restored.

For Jesus to be a cooresponding ransom, he needed to be no more than Adam before he sinned. An Angel, being a higher life-form, would be paying too much - let alone God. (Which is impossible since God has always been deathless.) The scales of Justice required an exact payment to maintain balance.

Jesus' Spirit is the Holy Spirit. The Bible says that Jesus baptizes us with the Holy Spirit. Jesus baptized Elizabeth with the Holy Spirit even while he was still in Mary's womb

Luke 1:41 When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.

Mark 1:8 I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."

At Jesus' baptism, Jesus was baptized for an example to us, and he was given power for his earthly ministry.

 

[Yes]

On the other hand, just as Jehovah required the Israelites to sacrifice their best animals to him for temporary forgiveness of sin, Jehovah provided his very best by providing his most dear one to provide an enduring ransom that only needed to be paid once.

Jesus came from heaven and everything was made through him. See 1 Corinthians 8:6.

THAT IS THE SAME THING THAT THE SCRIPTURES SAY ABOUT GOD. See Romans 11:36, and Hebrews 2:10.

 

[Yes]

Bible says that Jesus became a life-giving spirit. After death he was restored to life as an angel. Only this time he would be granted immorality. No longer could he ever be killed.

Jesus' 'little flock' would also put on this deathlessness when they are resurrected to heavenly life. So at the end of the first resurrection there there will be 144,002 with immortal life. Jehovah (The Father) will still be the Almighty and the personification of Love, but he trust these ones with this inability to die.

The scales of Justice requires that Jesus never reclaims his right to human life.

The Bible says to which of the angels did God ever say, "You are my Son; today I have become your Father"? Or again, "I will be his Father, and he will be my Son"?

The answer to that question is of course NONE. No angel did God ever say that to. That question in the Bible is what is called an educated question. It is the kind of question often given in the Bible. An educated question means that the answer is already known.

 

[Yes]

It is Jesus's blood. God doesnt have blood. Jesus died. God does not die. If He could we would be dead too and there would be no one to raise us up. All life would end.

God died in the flesh. We are not just flesh. We are flesh and spirit. Jesus' Spirit is God's Spirit, the Holy Spirit.

Hebrews 12:9, Zechariah 12:1, and Malachi 2:15.

Zechariah 12:1 shows us that the spirit has a form.

 

[Yes]

Except, God cannot be contained by death. So when Jesus (God the Son) died in the flesh, He burst apart the chains of death that bound us, and raised up into new life, opening for us the opportunity to do the same. God is immortal, but the humanity He assumed can die.

Humans have flesh and spirit. Jesus is God come in the flesh as a Man, and he died in the flesh, but lived in his Spirit, in which he raised himself to life.

 

[Yes]

And yet Jesus did not resurrect himself like some mythical phoenix. He slept in death for parts of 3 days and then Jehovah woke him up.

"But God resurrected him by releasing him from the pangs (or possibly, "cords.") of death, because it was not possible for him to be held fast by it....God resurrected this Jesus, and of this we are all witnesses." - Acts 2:24,32

The reason why some scriptures say God raised Jesus, and some scriptures say Jesus raised himself, it is because they are interchangeable, because they are one and the same.

Jesus raised himself.

John 10:18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."

John 2:19 Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days."

 

[Yes]

According to the Bible my wife and I are one flesh. While I agree with the statement in a spiritual and metaphorical sense, my wife and I are indeed two distinct individuals.

God is Spirit. You gave analogy about the flesh.

 

[Yes]

Indeed, It's hard for any person who loves the Father to be separated from the Father. When the Father is in you, you cannot be separate from Him. I wonder if you yourself could be separate from God? Is God in you, or is He not? Are you God?

I don't think Jesus could be separate from God, except for perhaps three days in his past, when He was a dead rotting corpse, paying for the sins of the world, experiencing a complete separation from God, a separation from God that we all indeed deserve.

Jesus lived in his Spirit, in which HE RAISED HIMSELF.

So actually, it doesn't sound like your dancing around. I believe you believe exactly what your saying. I'm just not certain your digging deep enough. But, again, maybe you're right. I was wrong once before, I just don't remember when.

You are ridiculous. You cannot help but insult. You probably know of no one who speaks more deeply than I do.

 

[Yes]

It is Jesus's blood. God doesnt have blood. Jesus died. God does not die. If He could we would be dead too and there would be no one to raise us up. All life would end.

It is God's blood because God came as a Man in the flesh.

Acts 20:28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.

 

[Kolibri]

God says Jesus would be called God, Father, and Holy Spirit. That is what I call him.

See Isaiah 9:6

Wonderful Counselor
And the spirit of Jehovah will settle upon him.
The spirit of wisdom and of understanding.
The spirit of counsel and of mightiness,
The spirit of knowledge and of the fear of Jehovah.
- Isaiah 11:2

Mighty God
Strap your sword on your side, O mighty one,
In your dignity and your splendor.
And in your splendor go on to victory; (or "success.")
Ride in the cause of thru and humility and righteousness,
And your right hand will accomplish (Lit., "teach you.") awe-inspiring things.
- Psalm 45:3,4

Eternal Father
So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living person."
The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
- 1 Corinthians 15:45

Prince of Peace
O God, give your judgement to the king;
And endow the son of the king with your righteousness.
...
In his days the righteous will flourish, (Lit., "sprout")
And peace will abound until the moon is no more.
- Psalm 72:1,7
(none of these titles require Jesus to be God, and yet I am very thankful for all four of these provisions.)

Jesus resurrected himself.

God resurrected Jesus, God gave Jesus his holy spirit
God resurrected this Jesus, and of this we are witnesses. Therefore, because he was exalted to the right hand of God and received the promised holy spirit spirit from the Father, he has poured out what you see and hear. - Acts 2:32,33
(I think you are demanding that Peter be wrong in his clear declaration.)

Like the apostle Paul, you are obviously full of zeal. And you are well-versed in the scriptures. But you are still trying to mold the scriptures to fit to a cherished belief instead of the other way around.

 

[Shiranui117]

Humans have flesh and spirit. Jesus is God come in the flesh as a Man, and he died in the flesh, but lived in his Spirit, in which he raised himself to life.

Jesus always had His full Divinity as a man, yes. But He also had a human soul as well, else He was never truly human.

 

[Kolibri]

John 10:18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."

John 2:19 Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days."

Good scriptures. Actually Act 2:24 does add meaning to this. "because it was not possible for him to be held fast by it." Why? Because Jesus was innocent to the degree of human perfection - he also had his right to life as a angel. He had the God-given rights to life and for him to remain dead would be a travesty of justice. And we know justice is one of the four cardinal attributes of our heavenly Father. Jehovah's power is also such that the religious leaders could not prevent the resurrection, even though they had a guard posted at the tomb.

 

[Yes]

God resurrected Jesus, God gave Jesus his holy spirit
God resurrected this Jesus, and of this we are witnesses. Therefore, because he was exalted to the right hand of God and received the promised holy spirit spirit from the Father, he has poured out what you see and hear. - Acts 2:32,33
(I think you are demanding that Peter be wrong in his clear declaration.)

You don't listen to well do you.

I told you that the scriptures show that God the Father and Jesus Christ the Son are interchangeable, and that is because they are the same.


You said God resurrected Jesus, and I gave you scripture that says Jesus resurrected himself, yet you ignore those scriptures.

God sends the Holy Spirit:

Galatians 4:6 Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, "Abba, Father." And John 14:26.

Jesus sends the Holy Spirit.

Luke 24:49 I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high." And John 15:26; 16:7.

 

[Yes]

Good scriptures. Actually Act 2:24 does add meaning to this. "because it was not possible for him to be held fast by it." Why? Because Jesus was innocent to the degree of human perfection - he also had his right to life as a angel. He had the God-given rights to life and for him to remain dead would be a travesty of justice. And we know justice is one of the four cardinal attributes of our heavenly Father. Jehovah's power is also such that the religious leaders could not prevent the resurrection, even though they had a guard posted at the tomb.

You have not disproved anything that I said.

 

[Yes]

Jesus always had His full Divinity as a man, yes. But He also had a human soul as well,

I can tell by what you said that you do not know what a soul is. A soul is a flesh body made alive by the spirit.

Jesus' Spirit is the Holy Spirit. Jesus is Spirit. That is what the scriptures say.

else He was never truly human.

The Bible does not say that. That is from your imagination.

Our flesh makes us human.

 

[Kolibri]

John 2:19-22

But he said to her: "Daughter, your faith has made you well." - Luke 8:48

Did she heal herself? No; it was power from God through Christ that healed her because she had faith. (Luke 8:46; Acts 10:38) Likewise, by his perfect obedience as a human, Jesus provided the moral basis for the Father to raise him from the dead, thus acknowledging Jesus as God’s Son. Because of Jesus’ faithful course of life, it could properly be said that Jesus himself was responsible for his resurrection.

Says A. T. Robertson in Word Pictures in the New Testament: “Recall [John] 2:19 where Jesus said: ‘And in three days I will raise it up.’ He did not mean that he will raise himself from the dead independently of the Father as the active agent (Rom. 8:11).”—(New York, 1932), Vol. V, p. 183.

 

[Yes]

John 2:19-22

But he said to her: "Daughter, your faith has made you well." - Luke 8:48

Did she heal herself? No; it was power from God through Christ that healed her because she had faith. (Luke 8:46; Acts 10:38) Likewise, by his perfect obedience as a human, Jesus provided the moral basis for the Father to raise him from the dead, thus acknowledging Jesus as God’s Son. Because of Jesus’ faithful course of life, it could properly be said that Jesus himself was responsible for his resurrection.

Says A. T. Robertson in Word Pictures in the New Testament: “Recall [John] 2:19 where Jesus said: ‘And in three days I will raise it up.’ He did not mean that he will raise himself from the dead independently of the Father as the active agent (Rom. 8:11).”—(New York, 1932), Vol. V, p. 183.

The BIBLE plainly says that Jesus raised himself.

John 10:18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."

John 2:19 Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days."