The Trinity

[cataway]

So? Your point? Who died and appointed YOU the doorkeeper to the kindom? Why are you so interested in keeping people out? Don't you want others to inherit the kindom? I thought Jesus rooted for the outcast, the disenfranchised, and the oppressed. What's your excuse?

it is scripture . if you think the homosexuals are expectable to God then you are sadly mistaken.

 

[Kolibri]

Thank you.

No, all the questions have the same answer.


If they are not the same---THEN THE BIBLE CONTRADICTS.

God is One. Since God is One, then Jesus must also be God. Not only that, what don't you understand that the if one scripture says this and that about God---then that same thing about Jesus...then they MUST BE THE SAME.

"Chief Agent" - principle person to do things in behalf of another.

Unless you can address Hebrews 12:2, our conversation regarding his topic is pointless, and we are better served to drop this.

"If any man teaches another doctrine and does not agree with the wholesome (or "healthful, beneficial.") instruction, which is from our Lord Jesus Christ, nor that teaching that is in harmony with godly devotion, he is puffed up with pride and does not understand anything. he is obsessed (or "has an unhealthy fascination.") with arguments and debates about words. These things give rise to envy, strife, slander, (or "abusive speeches.") wicked suspicions, constant disputes about minor matters by men who are corrupted in mind and deprived of the truth, thinking that godly devotion is a means of [dishonest] gain." - 1 Timothy 6:3-5; [dishonest] 1 Peter 5:2

 

[Kolibri]

it is scripture . if you think the homosexuals are expectable to God then you are sadly mistaken.

But those with same sex tendencies are acceptable. The verses references the acts of homosexuality. There is a big difference. Just like when someone stops practicing drunkenness they eventually stop being classified as an drunkard - and yet they may still struggle with desires, Biblically someone who no longer practices the acts of homosexuality and but still struggles with the desires is acceptable. (1Co 6:11)

 

[sojourner]

it is scripture . if you think the homosexuals are expectable to God then you are sadly mistaken.

Lots of things are "scripture" that we pay no attention to. In its ignorance about cosmology, "scripture" tells us that the sky is a reign dome covering a flat earth. And, in its ignorance about human sexuality, "scripture" tells us that the homosexual act is an abomination. It means nothing to post-modern sensibilities. If you think the homosexuals are not acceptable to God then you are sadly mistaken. If you think your half-baked judgment is acceptable to the rest of us, you're sadly mistaken.

 

[cataway]

But those with same sex tendencies are acceptable. The verses references the acts of homosexuality. There is a big difference. Just like when someone stops practicing drunkenness they eventually stop being classified as an drunkard - and yet they may still struggle with desires, Biblically someone who no longer practices the acts of homosexuality and but still struggles with the desires is acceptable. (1Co 6:11)

it is true that if some one does stop practicing the vile things they are looked at differently .

''11 And yet that is what some of YOU were. But YOU have been washed clean, but YOU have been sanctified, but YOU have been declared righteous in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God.''

however the tacking of same sex tendencies into the kingdom is not very likely

 

[cataway]

Lots of things are "scripture" that we pay no attention to. In its ignorance about cosmology, "scripture" tells us that the sky is a reign dome covering a flat earth. And, in its ignorance about human sexuality, "scripture" tells us that the homosexual act is an abomination. It means nothing to post-modern sensibilities. If you think the homosexuals are not acceptable to God then you are sadly mistaken. If you think your half-baked judgment is acceptable to the rest of us, you're sadly mistaken.

''Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Do not be misled. Those who are sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who submit to homosexual acts, men who practice homosexuality, 10 thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, and extortioners will not inherit God’s Kingdom.''
its as plain as the nose on your face that there are many that will not get into the kingdom and what's more , neither will the many more that think they should.

 

[sojourner]

''Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Do not be misled. Those who are sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who submit to homosexual acts, men who practice homosexuality, 10 thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, and extortioners will not inherit God’s Kingdom.''
its as plain as the nose on your face that there are many that will not get into the kingdom and what's more , neither will the many more that think they should.

Reference, plz. I doubt the word is actually "homosexual." Sounds like a biased "translation" of a different term to me...

It's as plain as the nose on my face that you're basing the whole of human salvation theology on this one little snippet, conveniently ignoring the overwhelming number of passages dealing with God's graciousness, forbearance, kindness, mercy, grace, forgiveness, etc. What about:

The Lord works vindication
and justice for all who are oppressed.
He made known his ways to Moses,
his acts to the people of Israel.
The Lord is merciful and gracious,
slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love.
He will not always accuse,
nor will he keep his anger forever.
He does not deal with us according to our sins,
nor repay us according to our iniquities.

And:

Ho, everyone who thirsts,
come to the waters;
and you that have no money,
come, buy and eat!
Come, buy wine and milk
without money and without price.

And:

Therefore God also highly exalted him
and gave him the name
that is above every name,
so that at the name of Jesus
every knee should bend,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
and every tongue should confess
that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

No, I'm afraid that ultimate forgiveness and reconciliation is the lot of the whole human family. However, when we all get there, if you'd like to pout and be standoffish, I'm sure there's a little corner where you can go and hide and pretend that you're the only one there. Meanwhile, the rest of us will be enjoying the feast together.

 

[Kolibri]

it is true that if some one does stop practicing the vile things they are looked at differently .

''11 And yet that is what some of YOU were. But YOU have been washed clean, but YOU have been sanctified, but YOU have been declared righteous in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God.''

however the tacking of same sex tendencies into the kingdom is not very likely

Job had to make a legal contract with his eyes. (Job 31:1) His heterosexual desire did not go away. But his extra-marital desires would diminish as he got in the habit of keeping that contract. Same with an alcoholic. Sexuality is not an addiction, (though sex can be), but the sex drive keeps bringing back the desire for a mate. And for those that have no viable option, it would mean frustration if they allow themselves to dwell on the 'privileged heterosexuals.' These ones deserve our admiration for keeping God's law as they have a constant struggle on their hands. Eventually they can become content to be single just like heterosexually inclined people can do the same. Some even are able to marry, but their homosexually inclined drive will become part of the "tribulation in their flesh." (1Co 7:28)

What we do know is that "the healing of the nations" is coming post-Armageddon. (Re 22:2) And that all the righteous will find "exquisite delight in the abundance of peace."(Ps 37:11) It will be a time when sin will no longer rule as master over us and Jehovah can open his hands "and satisfy the desire of every living thing." (Ps 145:16) Until then we all have a fight on our hands, regardless of nature of our imperfections.

 

[Kolibri]

Reference, plz. I doubt the word is actually "homosexual." Sounds like a biased "translation" of a different term to me...

1Co 6:9
Before the 2013 Revision the NWT translated this more literally.

"nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men." - NWT (1984 Ed)
"nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind" - KJV
"nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men." - ASV
"nor any who practice sodomy or submit to it." - Byington

Literally from the Greek "nor soft [men] nor liers with males"

Seems to me the NWT (2013 Revision) does a good job of conveying the thought accurately in a way that prevents confusion.
"men who submit to homosexual acts, men who practice homosexuality. (Or "men who have sex with men." Lit., "men who lie with men.")" - NWT (2013 Revision) with footnote.

 

[Wharton]

"Angel to human to angel"?

That's what the JW's believe, not me

 

[sojourner]

1Co 6:9
Before the 2013 Revision the NWT translated this more literally.

"nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men." - NWT (1984 Ed)
"nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind" - KJV
"nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men." - ASV
"nor any who practice sodomy or submit to it." - Byington

Literally from the Greek "nor soft [men] nor liers with males"

Seems to me the NWT (2013 Revision) does a good job of conveying the thought accurately in a way that prevents confusion.
"men who submit to homosexual acts, men who practice homosexuality. (Or "men who have sex with men." Lit., "men who lie with men.")" - NWT (2013 Revision) with footnote.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
9 Do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! Fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, sodomites, 10 thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, robbers—none of these will inherit the kingdom of God.
The NRSV is one of the best translations available. It doesn't mention "homosexuals." "Sodomites" is a completely different meaning. Sodomites are male rapists. Homosexuals aren't.

 

[Kolibri]

1 Corinthians 6:9-10New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
9 Do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! Fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, sodomites, 10 thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, robbers—none of these will inherit the kingdom of God.
The NRSV is one of the best translations available. It doesn't mention "homosexuals." "Sodomites" is a completely different meaning. Sodomites are male rapists. Homosexuals aren't.

Sodomites were male rapists. But the Greek phrase was addressed in the post. Not just the sampling of English translations. The Greek phrase did not differentiate between rape and consensual sex. Both would be practices covered by the phrase "men who lie with men." I am glad that the NRSV does not use the word effeminate though. Many men are effeminate and yet will not submit to sex with other men.

 

[Yes]

Then you need to be clearer in your writing and in your intentions.

You need to pay more attention. With the measure you used will be measured to you and more.

No, that merely indicates that the writers of both Leviticus and the epistles were ignorant with regard to modern medical and psychiatric science -- just as they were ignorant with regard to cosmology.

You are standing in judgment of God's Written Word, and you want me to go by what you say. Don't you see how ludicrous that is?

We don't know with any degree of certainty exactly what Jesus said. All we have are translations and editions of what other, later people said Jesus said. And what they said Jesus said isn't always crystal clear to our sensibilities.

I have been telling you how you can get understanding. I have been telling you how you can know for sure for yourself. I have been telling you what Jesus says how anyone can know for themselves.

Would you like to know how?

Uh huh. That's why there's no translation of the bible today. Because God hid the truth from the educated ones who would translate it. What a load of horse crap! Get over yourself!

I am telling you what GOD says. GOD says He has hidden His truth from the wise and learned.

My logs are my business. Stay the he11 out of my kitchen.

Then STOP trying to tell people what the Bible means. Then stop trying to people about God and Jesus! Jesus says that if anyone says they know God (as you say you do), but you do not obey Him, then God says you are a liar. Jesus says he gives understanding to those who get his teachings and OBEY them.

 

[Yes]

Sodomites were male rapists. But the Greek phrase was addressed in the post. Not just the sampling of English translations. The Greek phrase did not differentiate between rape and consensual sex. Both would be practices covered by the phrase "men who lie with men." I am glad that the NRSV does not use the word effeminate though. Many men are effeminate and yet will not submit to sex with other men.

No man has to be effeminate, and no woman has to be manly.

 

[Kolibri]

No man has to be effeminate, and no woman has to be manly.

men who are 'born gay' have mannerisms that are obvious, getting rid of those traits can take a life-time or longer. And some are just plain clueless to how they appear. For those that see themselves as effeminate, I am glad for those Bible translations that focus on the practice of allowing other men to have sex with them as being the item here that will prevent inheriting the promises. Same sex driven people have enough on their plate. To be led to believe that God's standard is stricter than it is, is to bury them in unnecessary discouragement.

 

[sojourner]

You are standing in judgment of God's Written Word, and you want me to go by what you say. Don't you see how ludicrous that is?

No, quite honestly, I don't see that as ludicrous. We judge the texts all the time in order to get at meaning and authenticity. I know more than you do about the exegetical process.

 

[sojourner]

The Greek phrase did not differentiate between rape and consensual sex.

Then we need to determine precisely what the meaning is -- we can't just assume what a non-differentiation means.

 

[Sonofason]

I just reread the post that you wrote, and it makes my hair stand up.

Amen, the presence of God in the form of the Spirit of Truth is wonderful.

 

[kjv4me2you]

No scripture speaks of a Double or Dual Anointing but if according to your statement, "Jesus was the holy spirit before he was born", then you are making the holy spirit-Mashach to be Jesus before he was born as Jesus of Nazareth the seed-sperma of his father King David.

The holy spirit-Mashach has no age whereas Jesus has a known age verified in scripture from his birth to his anointing at about 30 years of age unto his death and resurrection at age 33 AD. Jesus in heaven has an age of 33 since he said from heaven in the Hebrew tongue " I am Jesus of Nazareth".

(Acts 22:8 KJV) And I answered, Who art thou,Master? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest.

YHWH-YaH God a Spirit has no age He is immortal and cannot age, He is invisible and cannot be seen, He is the only wise God and He is the King of Saints.

There are no only wise essences of God. There is the only wise God.

(Rev 15:3 KJV) And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, YHWH-YaH God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

YHWH-YaH is King of all the earth and King of all saints whereas Jesus is the chief corner stone for the apostolic foundation of Hebrew Apostles .
(Eph 2:20 KJV) And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

(Psa 47:7 KJV) For God is the King of all the earth: sing ye praises with understanding.

(Psa 47:8 KJV) God reigneth over the heathen: God sitteth upon the throne of His holiness.

(1 Tim 1:17 KJV) Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

THE HOLY SPIRIT MASHACH
If Jesus was the holy spirit as Mashach the one who anoints and this before he was born, then your saying that Jesus the holy spirit at about age 30, in Luke 3:22-23, anointed himself;

Why would Jesus the holy spirit Mashach the anointer before he was born be anointing Jesus with the holy spirit Mashach anointing after he was born?

JESUS RECEIVES THE THRONE OF HIS FATHER DAVID. REMEMBER THE PROPHET SAMUEL ANOINTED DAVID WHO IS THE FATHER SEED-SPERMA OF JESUS.
YHWH-YAh SAID OF JESUS (Luke 1:32 KJV) He ( Jesus ) shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and YHWH-YaH God shall give unto him (Jesus) the throne of his father David:

If Jesus was the holy spirit (Mashach) before he was born was he not already the great Son of the Highest?

(Gal 4:6 KJV) And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
The spirit of Christ is the Son sent forth into our hearts and that spirit Son is crying, Abba Father.

But Jesus is not yet called the Son of the Highest in scripture because YHWH-YaH said " he shall be called the Son of the Highest " this calling Jesus the Son of the Highest has yet to occur but it will.

JESUS THE SEED-SPERMA OF HIS FATHER DAVID WAS ALSO THAT SEED OF EVE (Gen 3:15).
(2 Tim 2:8 KJV) Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

SEED=G4690=sperma
sper'-mah
From G4687; somethng sown, that is, seed (including the male “sperm”); by implication offspring; specifically a remnant (figuratively as if kept over for planting): - issue, seed.

JESUS THE SEED OF EVE
(Gen 3:15 KJV) And I will put enmity between thee( the serpent) and the woman ( Eve) , and between thy ( the serpents) seed and her-(Eve's) seed; it-(Eve's seed) shall bruise thy-(the serpents) head, and thou-(the serpent) shalt bruise his heel.

........................

Nowhere in Luke 1:41 does it say Jesus was the spirit Mashach before he was born nor that Jesus developing in the womb of Mary was who filled Elizabeth and her 6 month old babe John developing in Elizabeths womb.

Scripture does teach because Elizabeth was of Israel she could be filled with the spirit MASHACH-Christ-the anointing like the prophets of Israel which is what did happened to her. Elizabeth and John her prophet son were of Israel the Son of YHWH-YaH even YHWH-YaH's firstborn ( Exo 4:22). Elizabeth and John Baptist were of the spirit of Christ ( 1 Peter 1:11) Israel of God ( Gal 6:16).

(1 Pet 1:11 KJV) Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

(Gal 6:16 KJV) And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

MANY THOUGHT JOHN BAPTIST WAS CHRIST
(Luke 1:15 KJV) For he shall be great in the sight of YHWH-YaH, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled by the Holy Mashach with the anointing, even from his mother's womb.

(John 1:25 KJV) And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet?

Israel expected the spirit Mashach to anoint a Jew-Hebrew who would be that anointed anointer Christ-Messias-Mashiach that was to come.

THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST THE ANOINTING IN ISRAEL THE SON OF YAH EVEN YaH'S FIRSTBORN SON.
When Israel was delivered out of Egypt by YHWH-YaH, He gave Israel His Son the name YHWH-YaH ( Exodus 3:15) by which He wanted Israel to call Him forever.

YHWH-YaH also gave to Israel His BOOK which He said He wrote and also gave them the spirit Mashach the anointer. The prophets of Israel searched diligently YHWH-YaH's BOOK regarding the grace of Christ that should come unto Israel.

(Exo 32:33 KJV) And YHWH-YaH said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.
(Exo 24:12 KJV) And YHWH-YaH said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I-YHWH-YaH have written; that thou mayest teach them.

THE SPIRIT MASHACH-CHRIST WAS IN THE NATION ISRAEL THE SON OF YHWH-YaH AS SEEN IN 1 PETER 1:10-11
(1 Pet 1:10 KJV) Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

(1 Pet 1:11 KJV) Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

The sufferings of Christ and not the sufferings of YHWH-YaH or Jesus.
(Isa 53:10 KJV) Yet it pleased YHWH-YaH to bruise him-Christ; He YHWH-YaH hath put him-Christ to grief: when thou shalt make his-Christ's soul an offering for sin, YHWH-YaH shall see Christ's seed, YHWH shall prolong Christ's days, and the pleasure of YHWH-YaH shall prosper in Christ's hand.

willyah

The sufferings of Christ and not the sufferings of YHWH-YaH or Jesus.

Isa 53:10 YHWH-YaH shall seed Christ's seed, YHWH shall prolong Christ's days.

If Christ was YHWH-YaH Elohim-God why would Elohim have to prolong the days of Christ's seed? It would be redundant for God to prolong God but not for God to prolong Christ's seed Jesus.

willyah

 

[Yes]

No, quite honestly, I don't see that as ludicrous. We judge the texts all the time in order to get at meaning and authenticity. I know more than you do about the exegetical process.

No, that is not what we do and that is not how we get meaning.
The Bible, the Bible in which you claim to know about, it says the way we get understanding is by obedience.