The Trinity

[Muffled]

so you follow blind faith over knowledge?

What would ever give you that idea?

I know what the Bible says. That is knowledge.

If you mean that somehow you can know that the Bible isn't telling the truth, I would be very much surprised. Truth tends to stand on its own. (Jesus sasid that) Having read the Bible and found things to be true leaves me even less reason to doubt its veracity.

 

[Muffled]

This isn't God playing roles like girls and boys play dress-up, LOL. The WORD was WITH GOD. The Eternal Son came out from God-with God- the immediate result/consequence of this event was the Holy Spirit<-culmination of the Two as Truth as purposive energy. That is how it was and is done. We are still evolving and only have the resources at our disposal that demonstrate the Spiritual levels of our highest relative truths; of relative human/spirit concept grasp. Simply because we cannot explain the matters of Spirit with the tools of Science[wrong tools for the job-to an extent--yet one can explain Science using the tools of the Spirit. apply princlples of energy of electricity properties of such including light and yes even quarks...all miracles even so when we become spiritually evolved enough to explain new phenomena.

I personally don't believe followers of The Way will require churches-a true ministry of service to God through the constructs of humanity.

You are correct in this. That would suggest three bodies but the Father does not have a body and the Holy Spirit has many bodies of which mine is one. However the girl part fits because the Holy Spirit can be joined to women as well as men.

This is incorrect. There is no extrication from God. God is one wherever He is.

This is a complete misundeerstanding of the Paraclete. There is no proof that a spirit is energy only that it can do things. So a body is enlivened by the presence of the spirit; that does not mean the spirit is energy only that it can engender energy.

 

[Muffled]

I can agree with you on the body being the difference as a relative answer allowing also: "the body determines as the containing vessel's parameters." iow= cannot contain the wholeness of God within. It is a contradiction. Therefore God; as in a vessel is also the WORD and not the WORD-grasped by us in the parameter of relationship, of personality-as what we know;conceptualize, limit or constrain="SON". Right now this humanity's highest perceptions of relationship potential here. yet also true at the same time Divinity is beyond here..eternally.
God as first source and center then also truth-God IS Personality. We perceive personality as unique to the vessel. In this -way- This is the vehicle we use to perceive closeness, unity,feel at-one-ment love of, with, and for God. God so loves you. We can 'know' God to the limits of our abilities to grasp truths, a willingness to reach for truths as yet unperceived by ourselves.. Yet still God is more and therefore not the Son only. nor the Father only. nor the Holy Spirit only.

God as All in All is the Christ-yet the Eternal Son is with the Father always-how this is so, still a mystery. We'll get there, in many ways look how far we've come. We have Dominion here. So how we treat our home is in direct relation to how spiritually mature; ethically aligned we are with spiritual based truth-not trying to be a scientist here, I speak from the spiritual pov through limited mortal yet highest grasps of truths obtained in this personalized vessel thus far.

There does not appear to be any distinction in intelligence between the father and Son. This is due to the fact that God is one. God can't have two intelligences because He is not two. However the body has its own intelligence separate from the Spirit and quite often contrary to it.

All the separate personalities due to separate bodies do not display a personailty of God. It is the spiritual personality that is one throughout all.

The Father is the essence of God. The Son and Paraclete are just temporal.

 

[outhouse]

What would ever give you that idea?

I know what the Bible says. That is knowledge.

If you mean that somehow you can know that the Bible isn't telling the truth, I would be very much surprised. Truth tends to stand on its own. (Jesus sasid that) Having read the Bible and found things to be true leaves me even less reason to doubt its veracity.

How would you know what jesus ever said?


the bible was written by unknown men who never met or knew jesus, nor did they even live in the same country, nor did they hear one word that passed his lips.

thankfully oral tradition was so important that some of what he said was kept alive and did make it to the canon.

But hat is another topic for another thread


I still dont know how you discount the fact a roman emporer had to put his foot down and tell the bishops how to vote to declare jesus divine the same as the father 325 ish years after his death.

its a funny turn of events, his enemies declared him divine, go figure

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

If the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are all different forms of the same person, why didn't God command Abraham to put himself on the alter and sacrifice himself?

 

[outhouse]

If the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are all different forms of the same person, why didn't God command Abraham to put himself on the alter and sacrifice himself?

why would he???

 

[Muffled]

If the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are all different forms of the same person, why didn't God command Abraham to put himself on the alter and sacrifice himself?

I would not make this statement. God is without form as we know it. I would say that He is one person joined with human forms in the instances of The Son and The Holy Ghost.

You are speaking of that as a type of sacrifice the Father would make with His Son. However the analogy breaks down because Abraham and Isaac were two different persons while The Father and Son are not. If you think the analogy must hold, remember that Abraham's son was spared while Jesus was not.

You have a real question about this. The answer is simple: as the Father there is no body to crucify, only the Son has a body to crucify.

 

[Muffled]

How would you know what jesus ever said?

the bible was written by unknown men who never met or knew jesus, nor did they even live in the same country, nor did they hear one word that passed his lips.

thankfully oral tradition was so important that some of what he said was kept alive and did make it to the canon.

But hat is another topic for another thread

I still dont know how you discount the fact a roman emporer had to put his foot down and tell the bishops how to vote to declare jesus divine the same as the father 325 ish years after his death.

its a funny turn of events, his enemies declared him divine, go figure

Usually if Jesus didn't say something He tells me He didn't say it. For that reason if the Bible says He said something and Jesus does not contradict it, then it is what he said.

I think you are extremely misinformed on this subject.

Those things that are in the Bible are there because God wants them there and if anything is left out it is because God didn't want them.

I haven't seen any evidence of that.

They were formerly enemies and no longer enemies.

 

[outhouse]

I think you are extremely misinformed on this subject.

sorry brother

youve read it before and know my words to be accurate

He tells me He didn't say it. .

good luck with that

Those things that are in the Bible are there because God wants them there and if anything is left out it is because God didn't want them.

but ancient men wrote the bible, not any deity

I haven't seen any evidence of that.

opened a book recently?

They were formerly enemies and no longer enemies

good guess since romans dont exist anymore.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

why would he???

I understand that Abraham offering up his son was a similitude of God offering up his son.

But if it was God offering up himself, why not tell Abraham to offer up himself.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

I would not make this statement. God is without form as we know it. I would say that He is one person joined with human forms in the instances of The Son and The Holy Ghost.

You are speaking of that as a type of sacrifice the Father would make with His Son. However the analogy breaks down because Abraham and Isaac were two different persons while The Father and Son are not. If you think the analogy must hold, remember that Abraham's son was spared while Jesus was not.

You have a real question about this. The answer is simple: as the Father there is no body to crucify, only the Son has a body to crucify.

So Jesus was not a form?

 

[outhouse]

I understand that Abraham offering up his son was a similitude of God offering up his son.

But if it was God offering up himself, why not tell Abraham to offer up himself.

You would need to read this scripture carefully and make up your own mind for the meaning.


Abraham has no historicity, and is said to be a literary creation

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

You would need to read this scripture carefully and make up your own mind for the meaning.


Abraham has no historicity, and is said to be a literary creation

make up my mind? It isn't my mind I am consulting it is that of the people who believe in the trinity.

Yah, a great many things have "been said" all throughout history, including the earth being on a turtle's back, and the earth being the center of the universe.

 

[outhouse]

make up my mind? It isn't my mind I am consulting it is that of the people who believe in the trinity.

Yah, a great many things have "been said" all throughout history, including the earth being on a turtle's back, and the earth being the center of the universe.

It wont give abraham historicity that isnt there.



God didnt offer up jesus, a possible fictional charactor like abraham who could have lived a thousand years before jesus belonged to a different culture then jesus and the legends are different to meet different needs.

one fictional sacrifice should not parrallel another as the whole point is to give different messages to different people

 

[Muffled]

So Jesus was not a form?

Jesus is God in the flesh. The body has form. The Spirit of God that resides in Jesus does not.

 

[Muffled]

You would need to read this scripture carefully and make up your own mind for the meaning.


Abraham has no historicity, and is said to be a literary creation

There is no evidence that Abraham is not historical. (of course because it is the null hypothesis) All scripture is a literary creation as are history books. If you are trying to say that it is fiction, there is no evidence to support that view.

People who make up their own minds don't often find the real meaning.

 

[Muffled]

make up my mind? It isn't my mind I am consulting it is that of the people who believe in the trinity.

Yah, a great many things have "been said" all throughout history, including the earth being on a turtle's back, and the earth being the center of the universe.

It is The Holy Spirit who has the truth. People who believe in the Trinity may or may not have the Holy spirit.

However you would not find such things in the Bible.

 

[F0uad]

Hmm ok lets see...

God divided him self intro three ''DIFFERENT BEINGS" therefore making himself 3gods.. Sounds very much as Paganism...


People have to realise that the

1 Individual Being
1 Individual Being
1 Individual Being

Can never make 1 Individual Being only three Inviduals, the word Invidual means someone else by definition so you cannot mix these three ''Different beings into One'' or vice versa because they become Different once you have Individual Beings that are ''DIFFERENT'' DUH!

 

[sojourner]

Hmm ok lets see...

God divided him self intro three ''DIFFERENT BEINGS" therefore making himself 3gods.. Sounds very much as Paganism...


People have to realise that the

1 Individual Being
1 Individual Being
1 Individual Being

Can never make 1 Individual Being only three Inviduals, the word Invidual means someone else by definition so you cannot mix these three ''Different beings into One'' or vice versa because they become Different once you have Individual Beings that are ''DIFFERENT'' DUH!

God is Being. That Being is revealed in three persons. You've got it all wrong.

 

[F0uad]

God is Being. That Being is revealed in three persons. You've got it all wrong.

Again what does Person mean in English? someone with a Personality now what does make persons different from each other there Personality what simply means they are three different beings.

You cannot say that Jesus(p) is the same being as the Holy-Spirit, because Jesus(p) was flesh and was a '''Different'' Person according to the scriptures and teachings of the church.
For example the Father's knowledge is greater then that of Jesus(p), Jesus(p) himself said the father is greater. Meaning they are two ''Different persons'' even ''IF'' he had a divine nature of god in-him


Try to read next time before just replying and read it carefully.