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The Trinity

kjw47

kjw47

Well-Known Member
BlandOatmeal said:
Uravip,

I don't see exactly what you're trying to say. Both kjw and I are asserting that Eph 1:1-3 describes Jesus as being in a subordinate standing to God, nor part of a "godhead". Do you agree, or disagree?
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He was saying that Jesus is not part of a godhead trinity.
 
kjw47

kjw47

Well-Known Member
paarsurrey said:
The Trinity

Jesus never believed in, in my opinion.

Trinity was invented by Paul and the Church.
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Paul didnt invent the trinity--He taught 1 cor 8:6-- Catholicism councils headed by a pagan false god worshipping king invented the trinity. The greeks would not convert to a religion that had only a single being God.
 
Shermana

Shermana

Heretic
To be fair, many Trinitarians (falsely) interpret some of the things Paul says to be outright Trinitarian, but a careful examination of the Greek in each case (as well as understanding Philo's Anatolian Jewish Logos Theology) proves that their arguments are either mistaken or straight out deceptive. Like with John. In some cases like the NLT, they straight up change the Greek to suit their Trinitarian preferences like with Phillipians 2:6.

http://bible.cc/philippians/2-6.htm

What does "Form of God" mean? Obviously it should be "form of a god". God is not a form. God may HAVE a form. But he is not a form itself.

The International Standard also changes the Greek to say "God's own form" as if the possessive is on "God".

International Standard Version (©2008)
In God's own form existed he, and shared with God equality, deemed nothing needed grasping.
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What is 'God's own form" anyway? How can one "exist in God's form" yet "share equality with God"?
 
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kjw47

kjw47

Well-Known Member
Shermana said:
To be fair, many Trinitarians (falsely) interpret some of the things Paul says to be outright Trinitarian, but a careful examination of the Greek in each case (as well as understanding Philo's Anatolian Jewish Logos Theology) proves that their arguments are either mistaken or straight out deceptive. Like with John. In some cases like the NLT, they straight up change the Greek to suit their Trinitarian preferences like with Phillipians 2:6.

Philippians 2:6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,

What does "Form of God" mean? Obviously it should be "form of a god". God is not a form. God may HAVE a form. But he is not a form itself.

The International Standard also changes the Greek to say "God's own form" as if the possessive is on "God".




What is 'God's own form" anyway? How can one "exist in God's form" yet "share equality with God"?
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In the vatican archives there is proof that they altered Phil 2:6 to try and fit the trinity teaching as well. Just a clever design by satans will to mislead mankind into breaking Gods #1 commandment on a daily basis. Jehovah is the only true God--And Jesus taught John 17:1-6-- one must know him( take in knowledge) and Jesus to gain eternal life.
 
Shermana

Shermana

Heretic
kjw47 said:
In the vatican archives there is proof that they altered Phil 2:6 to try and fit the trinity teaching as well. Just a clever design by satans will to mislead mankind into breaking Gods #1 commandment on a daily basis. Jehovah is the only true God--And Jesus taught John 17:1-6-- one must know him( take in knowledge) and Jesus to gain eternal life.
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For real? Where did you get that? I TOTALLY believe that there's all kinds of interesting (and revealing) secrets in the Archives, but how do you know this?
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
kjw47 said:
Paul didnt invent the trinity--He taught 1 cor 8:6-- Catholicism councils headed by a pagan false god worshipping king invented the trinity. The greeks would not convert to a religion that had only a single being God.
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So Trinity was a made-up thing. Trinity was not made in Jerusalem; it was made in Rome.
 
kjw47

kjw47

Well-Known Member
paarsurrey said:
So Trinity was a made-up thing. Trinity was not made in Jerusalem; it was made in Rome.
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Where ever it was made, its not the God of Abraham, Moses,Job,Lot,Daniel,Isaiah,etc-- even Jesus. They all served a single being God named YHWH(Jehovah).
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
My religion clearly mentions that Trinity is not truthful and the Christians should not believe in it:


[5:73] Indeed they are disbelievers who say, ‘Surely, Allah is none but the Messiah, son of Mary,’ whereas the Messiah himself said, ‘O children of Israel, worship Allah Who is my Lord and your Lord.’ Surely, whoso associates partners with Allah, him has Allah forbidden Heaven, and the Fire will be his resort. And the wrongdoers shall have no helpers.
[5:74] They are surely disbelievers who say, ‘Allah is the third of three;’ there is no God but the One God. And if they do not desist from what they say, a grievous punishment shall surely befall those of them that disbelieve.

The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine - Al Islam Online

This is what I understand from my religion; others could believe differently, in my opinion.
 
kjw47

kjw47

Well-Known Member
paarsurrey said:
My religion clearly mentions that Trinity is not truthful and the Christians should not believe in it:


[5:73] Indeed they are disbelievers who say, ‘Surely, Allah is none but the Messiah, son of Mary,’ whereas the Messiah himself said, ‘O children of Israel, worship Allah Who is my Lord and your Lord.’ Surely, whoso associates partners with Allah, him has Allah forbidden Heaven, and the Fire will be his resort. And the wrongdoers shall have no helpers.
[5:74] They are surely disbelievers who say, ‘Allah is the third of three;’ there is no God but the One God. And if they do not desist from what they say, a grievous punishment shall surely befall those of them that disbelieve.

The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine - Al Islam Online

This is what I understand from my religion; others could believe differently, in my opinion.
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God desires us to have a personal relationship with him. He called Abraham friend. We too can be his friend.And where as Allah is a title--God has a personal name--it is YHWH(Jehovah).
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
kjw47 said:
God desires us to have a personal relationship with him. He called Abraham friend. We too can be his friend.And where as Allah is a title--God has a personal name--it is YHWH(Jehovah).
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All good names like Yahweh, Allah, Ahura Mazda, Brahma, Brahman, Waheguru are His names, I think.

My religion tell me:

[7:181] And to Allah alone belong all perfect attributes*. So call on Him by these. And leave alone those who deviate from the right way with respect to His attributes. They shall be repaid for what they do.

The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine - Al Islam Online

*good names
 
kjw47

kjw47

Well-Known Member
paarsurrey said:
All good names like Yahweh, Allah, Ahura Mazda, Brahma, Brahman, Waheguru are His names, I think.

My religion tell me:

[7:181] And to Allah alone belong all perfect attributes*. So call on Him by these. And leave alone those who deviate from the right way with respect to His attributes. They shall be repaid for what they do.

The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine - Al Islam Online

*good names
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Allah- means God---God is a title not a name--God revealed his name as YHWH(Jehovah)
 
Shermana

Shermana

Heretic
kjw47 said:
Allah- means God---God is a title not a name--God revealed his name as YHWH(Jehovah)
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I believe that Allah comes from Al-Elah, as in the articulated form of God, like "Ha-Elohim" or "Ho Theos", as opposed to just "Elah" which would mean "a god".
 
kjw47

kjw47

Well-Known Member
Terrywoodenpic said:
There was no subject so hotly debated in the early church than the relationship between God , Jesus, and the Holy spirit. Every side in the debate went through the stage of declaring the others Heretics. All were certain there was only one God.

The Trinity concept was numerically the winner.
However virtually all the other concepts still survive to this day in one form or another.

Most people I have met, Trinitarians or not, are quite unable to explain the Trinity in simple terms.

Muslims are unwilling to even try.

However This does not mean the concept is false, it simply means like all religious concepts, it is mysterious.
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There is no mystery about who the true God is in reality-- Moses,David,Abraham,Isaiah,Elijah,Job,etc,etc-- all served the true God--It is 100% fact they all served a single being God named- YHWH(Jehovah) -- catholicism made up the trinity god at their councils-- alot of false teachings and pagan practices were allowed in at those councils. They then mistranslated certain greek words and moved apostraphes and left the a out of the last line of John 1:1 to fit council teachings. But they could not hide the real truth--Jesus taught at John 17:1-6-- that his Father is the only true God--verse 6 the name is YHWH(Jehovah) Paul taught the same--1 cor 8:6
 
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