The True Church

[Muffled]

I guess we just get out the black marker and erase those passages we do not want to read. Passages like,

"And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name."(Acts 22:16):yes:

Peter managed to explicate this further in a letter:

I Peter 3:20 that aforetime were disobedient, when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water:
21 ¶ which also after a true likeness doth now save you, even baptism, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the interrogation of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ;

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I guess we just get out the black marker and erase those passages we do not want to read. Passages like,

"And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name."(Acts 22:16):yes:

But who says that baptism has to involve water? Matthew 3:11:

"I [John the Baptist] baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.

I've never been able to find any Biblical support for the idea that Christian baptism must be a ceremony involving pouring, sprinkling, or dipping a person in water. The generally held Quaker view, i.e. that baptism is a matter of being "washed in the Holy Spirit" and is an ongoing process rather than a single event, agrees with everything I've been able to personally glean from the Bible.

However, the copies at my disposal are black marker-free.

 

[sojourner]

IF they're not perfect, then what good are they? Would you use a math textbook that says 5+5=10? So what if it says in another place 1+1=2, the fact is that it made a mistake. As a matter of fact, the author and publisher made a mistake, and therefore you wouldn’t trust them. And in the case of the Bible, God allows the Bible to be used for the guidance of His people. If it’s wrong in any place, why does He allow us to use it?

Didn't Hitler say the same thing about the Jews???
If people are wrong in any place, how can we trust them? How can we trust the Church? How can we trust clergy? How can we trust Biblical translators? In the end, how can you trust your own understanding?

Trust in perfection isn't the issue here. But trust in the Spirit is.

 

[Muffled]

But who says that baptism has to involve water? Matthew 3:11:



I've never been able to find any Biblical support for the idea that Christian baptism must be a ceremony involving pouring, sprinkling, or dipping a person in water. The generally held Quaker view, i.e. that baptism is a matter of being "washed in the Holy Spirit" and is an ongoing process rather than a single event, agrees with everything I've been able to personally glean from the Bible.

However, the copies at my disposal are black marker-free.

The Baptist Church considers Baptism to be an ordinance ie. It is something that we are commanded by God to do. I can't conceive how anyone could construe thae act as strictly spiritual and think they have the truth of God. On the other hand the physical act without a confession of faith is worthless re.

Mat 3:7 ¶ But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said unto them, Ye offspring of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Bring forth therefore fruit worthy of repentance:

 

[DeepShadow]

IF they're not perfect, then what good are they? Would you use a math textbook that says 5+5=10? So what if it says in another place 1+1=2, the fact is that it made a mistake. As a matter of fact, the author and publisher made a mistake, and therefore you wouldn’t trust them.

Apart from the fact that there's no mistake in the math above, publishers of textbooks make this kind of mistake all the time. They publish erratas that contain corrections, but some things still slip through. Should we stop using all textbooks?

 

[Muffled]

Apart from the fact that there's no mistake in the math above, publishers of textbooks make this kind of mistake all the time. They publish erratas that contain corrections, but some things still slip through. Should we stop using all textbooks?

Not to mention science textbooks that have evolution in them. There is a great deal of propaganda in textbooks depending on what view the publisher is trying to promote.

 

[crystalonyx]

Not to mention science textbooks that have evolution in them. There is a great deal of propaganda in textbooks depending on what view the publisher is trying to promote.

Are you saying that evolution is propaganda? Then so is physics and chemistry.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Not to mention science textbooks that have evolution in them. There is a great deal of propaganda in textbooks depending on what view the publisher is trying to promote.

God and faith in God are not contraindicated by any science, including evolution. Unfortunately, some myopic Christians have determined that evolution is a crisis for THEIR faith. I would suggest that this indicates that they have an extremely WEAK faith, especially if they are challenged by something not even mentioned in scripture.

 

[DeepShadow]

Whether textbooks contain deliberate propaganda is totally irrelevant. The point is that all textbooks contain accidental errors. To suggest that we should throw out anything with errors is to suggest we should do away with education entirely.

 

[Muffled]

Are you saying that evolution is propaganda? Then so is physics and chemistry.

In Chemistry if an experiment is repeated the same result should be obtained (Although I was never very successful obtaining results). Where is your example of an ape turning into a human? All there is for evidence is speculation and don't tell me there isn't a missing link.

 

[e.r.m.]

Marks of the True Church

1. Believes that Jesus Christ is God. John 1:1

2. Has no Head of the church but Jesus. Ephesians 5:23

3. Teaches truth not Denominationalism. Mark 7:7-8

4. Teaches that The Bible is the True Word of God, and is without error. 2 Timothy 3:16-17

5. Teaches that Authority comes from the word of God not leaders in the Church. 1 Thessalonians 4:2, Acts 2:42

6. Teaches Believers Baptism. Mark 16:16

7. Teaches that Repentance and Baptism is for the Forgiveness of Sins and the way to receive the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38, Romans 6:3-4

8. Teaches that Jesus is the only way to heaven. Acts 4:12

9. Teaches that Sinners will go to Hell. Revelation 21:8, 20:11-15

10. Takes care of the Poor. James 1:27

11. And does the Great Commission. Matthew 28:18-20

Great post, "thedictator" is a very unwelcoming and unbecoming name. I'd add also living as the true church, not just teaching. Acts 2:42-47.

 

[e.r.m.]

So People are saved by Baptism? This is not so. Please tell me that you don't belive that.

People are saved by God/Jesus, when one repents and is baptized in Jesus's name (this includes belief). What problem do you have with that? He gave a scripture for it Acts 2:38, which says exactly that.

 

[e.r.m.]

Church of Christ is Replacement Theology! True Church, I think not!
You folk think the God of the Old Covenant made a mistake in choosing the Children of Israel as a chosen people! Gave up on them nailed the Torah to the cross and gave all the promises to the Church of Christ. Not even close!
Since you only accept the New Testament;
Ro 11:26 and so all Israel will be saved; as it is written, "The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob";
Jn. 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me, has eternal life; he does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

The Only True Church is one that is in lock step with the Moshiach, Hears the Word of God and Does it! Shema v'shamar!

Straw man argument, we don't believe God nailed the Torah to the cross. We do not follow only the New Testament, but According to Ephesians 2, God destroyed the dividing wall of hostility between Jews and Gentiles through believing in Jesus. We do not have to follow the whole mosaic law, but Jesus's teachings yes.

 

[e.r.m.]

Does the Church of Christ teach that water baptism is necessary for salvation?

The Bible teaches that baptism is involved in salvation, Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, 1, Peter 3:21, along with belief and repentance, and therefore we follow suit.

 

[e.r.m.]

I think they belive in Baptismal Justification

No, we believe in divine justification (and no, this is not an establish phrase. Don't go looking it up), meaning God/Jesus does the saving. He just does it when someone believes/repents and is baptized in His name Acts 2:38, Acts 4:12.

 

[e.r.m.]

Jesus did not teach us that he was God , and the bible doesnt either , and as the early christians were told , the apostacy would take hold , and it sure did , and the Trinity teaching is a major part of that apostacy, among other things . And the bible has been translated to cloud peoples thoughts. i am glad to say that there are some bibles around that have been translated inline with the original thoughts of God and not according to false teachings. and the whole of the bible harmonizes with what Jesus taught us ...... yes he is Gods son ....... many have been led along by false teachers over the centuries and many have got to believe this great lie of the TRINITY. still not to worry ,Jesus sheep will hear his voice and those with the right heart , will come to an accurate knowledge of the true God and Jesus christ
In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.
"A god." Gr., the·os´, in contrast with ton The·on´, "the God," in the same sentence;
JOHN 1;1
This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.... john17;3
During his prehuman existence, Jesus was God’s Word, or Spokesman. (John 1:1) He is described as being "the power of God and the wisdom of God." (1 Corinthians 1:24, 30) What a beautiful description of the Son of God, whose fondness for mankind moved him to give his life as a ransom in their behalf!—John 3:16.

Anytime anyone comes up with an extra-Biblical name or catchphrase, they're asking for trouble.

 

[e.r.m.]

Luk 3:16
(16) John answered, saying unto them all, “I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire”:


Mar 10:17-22
(17) And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
(18) And Yeshua said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
(19) Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
(20) And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.
(21) Then Yeshua beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross (infinity), and follow me.
(22) And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.

Wizanda,
Welcome to the forum.
Luke 3:16 Does it not occur that both water baptism and baptism with the Holy Spirit occurred concurrently? -Acts 10.
Of the two, only water baptism in Jesus's name is written about involving salvation Acts 2:38, Mark 16:16.

 

[e.r.m.]

For someone who is part of the Stone-Campbell Movement, you really understand very little about the spirit and impetus of your church.

First off, in the perspective of Stone-Campbell, no church would ever make a distinction about what is "true church" and what is not. Therefore, on that basis alone, your post is moot. Second, your post breaks point 11, also excluding your church from "true churchdom," based upon the criteria you have set forth.

The Great Commission includes "telling the Good News." What part of the Good News ever included telling the majority of believers that they are not real believers at all (based upon your criteria of what constitutes a "real believer?")

Agreed. It's not on man's criteria, but the scriptures'.

 

[e.r.m.]

Calling any Church the true one or calling any aspect of religion better than another one isn't just arrogant, it's irrationally smug.

I disagree. Aspects of religion or belief systems can be compared with the Bible and determined to be true or false.

 

[e.r.m.]

There's only one mark of the True Church. It's adherents know there really is no "True Church." Rather, the first shall be last and the last shall be first, because Christ does not come to the righteous, but to sinners.

It's that and more. I agree that no one group can claim to be the only true church. The church is comprised by all who follow God's word, especially on salvation matters, where ever they may be.