The truth, the path to God

[rational experiences]

Who says?
“Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:6‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
“If I had not come and spoken to them, they would have no sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin. He who hates Me hates My Father also. If I had not done among them the works which no one else did, they would have no sin; but now they have seen and also hated both Me and My Father. But this happened that the word might be fulfilled which is written in their law, ‘They hated Me without a cause.’”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:22-25‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
There is only 1 God and Creator, He is Eternal, the rest are idols

Jesus also taught leadership is a fallacy.

He was sharing advice.

How do you learn about our holy father?

That he came direct out of the eternal. One memory vision of him...a father first without sex. Was father direct.

Sex was with mother that made him become our father. First he was non sexual.

Who do you think you infer in life sacrifice but your own original father without sex... lost DNA in life attack is direct first? Then sex passes into babies.

My daughter memory was crying as my brother had murdered my father I heard. I cried too. So I began my own research psychic spiritual myself.

Why when I demanded spirit prove yourself to me a gentle voice said live the spiritual life it will be proven. Not what you expect to hear.

As I lost him out of my own sexually conceived DNA baby life. I nearly died.

I was psychic aware because of my loss.

Gained the visions. Heard his voice. Heard him leaving singing as father's life all over the earth my holy brother died.

Sacrificed.

Still heard today as the same.

I sob uncontrollably when I heard it.

I started to gain lots of death advice about my holy human family dying before their time. As soon as I shut my eyes. I tried to go to sleep quickly.

I learnt about Jesus yet he owns no name. He can be any name you want actually says any man with any name spiritual self.

 

[viole]

I see nothing circular about it.

Well, then defeat this without begging the question:

- a true messenger of God brings bad fruits. Not good fruits.

You, Matthew and the others, are simply mistaken. Or you just made it up.

I am surprised you do not see the problem.How do you know the characteristics of a true messenger of God without making assumptions of what characteristics God chooses for Her messengers? Who told you about that God characteristics? Another messenger? And how do you know he is right? Because he brought good fruits?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Trailblazer]

Well, then defeat this without begging the question:

- a true messenger of God brings bad fruits. Not good fruits.

You, Matthew and the others, are simply mistaken. Or you just made it up.

I am surprised you do not see the problem.How do you know the characteristics of a true messenger of God without making assumptions of what characteristics God chooses for Her messengers? Who told you about that God characteristics? Another messenger? And how do you know he is right? Because he brought good fruits?

Even if I did not have scriptures to refer to I would believe that a Messenger of God would bring good fruits because it makes logical sense to me. Why would a good God send a Messenger who brought bad fruits? Mind you, I believe that the Messenger of God represents God in this world.

Now, you will probably now say that there is no reason for me to believe that God is good, but even if I did not have scriptures I would believe God is good because that makes logical sense to me. Just imagine an all-powerful God that is evil. I know some atheists who believe that but it makes no sense because an evil God that had all power would be doing evil things and there is no evidence that God is doing anything evil.

 

[viole]

Even if I did not have scriptures to refer to I would believe that a Messenger of God would bring good fruits because it makes logical sense to me. Why would a good God send a Messenger who brought bad fruits? Mind you, I believe that the Messenger of God represents God in this world.

Because there is no logical law that says: God must be good. Or God is into sending messengers which gives good fruits. This has nothing to do with logic.

For what you know God rejoices at our misery, and makes sure to talk only to evil people. You don't believe that just because you assume the properties of God, and therefore of His messages. And you use that belief to measure the reliability of a self declared prophet. That is circular reason. I really don't know how else you call it. You believe X, and use X to measure a true messenger of X. That is of course true for any X. I could put X="inspire cannibals", and infer that Hannibal Lecter is a true messenger of God.

Now, you will probably now say that there is no reason for me to believe that God is good, but even if I did not have scriptures I would believe God is good because that makes logical sense to me. Just imagine an all-powerful God that is evil. I know some atheists who believe that but it makes no sense because an evil God that had all power would be doing evil things and there is no evidence that God is doing anything evil.

Well, that does not hold water, logically. Do you think kids cancer is good? What about devastating earthquakes? Famine. Etc.

It is, de-facto, a theological problem called the problem of evil, that believers in good God must address. Now, if God is evil, where does love, compassion, etc. comes from? We would have a problem of good, instead.

To think that something breaks that symmetry between good God/problem of evil, Evil God/problem of good, by saying: it is obvious that only the first case obtains, since it is obvious that God must be good, is, again, begging the question.

Ciao

- viole

 

[ElishaElijah]

Because there is no logical law that says: God must be good. Or God is into sending messengers which gives good fruits. This has nothing to do with logic.

For what you know God rejoices at our misery, and makes sure to talk only to evil people. You don't believe that just because you assume the properties of God, and therefore of His messages. And you use that belief to measure the reliability of a self declared prophet. That is circular reason. I really don't know how else you call it. You believe X, and use X to measure a true messenger of X. That is of course true for any X. I could put X="inspire cannibals", and infer that Hannibal Lecter is a true messenger of God.




Well, that does not hold water, logically. Do you think kids cancer is good? What about devastating earthquakes? Famine. Etc.

It is, de-facto, a theological problem called the problem of evil, that believers in good God must address. Now, if God is evil, where does love, compassion, etc. comes from? We would have a problem of good, instead.

To think that something breaks that symmetry between good God/problem of evil, Evil God/problem of good, by saying: it is obvious that only the first case obtains, since it is obvious that God must be good, is, again, begging the question.

Ciao

- viole

God is good, He created mankind in His image, put them in charge and gave them authority in the Garden of Eden. Warned them not to eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. If they did they would die. They were deceived by Satan, believed his lies and ate.
God judged this rebellion, passed down the sentence and we’ve been living under this curse, the whole world has been.
God sends His Son Jesus Christ to pay the penalty for this rebellion by dying on the cross, rising from the dead, ascending into Heaven.
Jesus will Return, deal with all the rebellion and set up His everlasting kingdom.
This is written in Daniel 7.
How do you know Jesus is the Messiah? How do you know a true believer from the false? How do you know the true prophet from the false? By their fruit
““Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:15-20‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[viole]

God is good, He created mankind in His image, put them in charge and gave them authority in the Garden of Eden. Warned them not to eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. If they did they would die. They were deceived by Satan, believed his lies and ate.

Which means, not so much in His image, right? Unless you believe God would also be deceived by Satan.

God judged this rebellion, passed down the sentence and we’ve been living under this curse, the whole world has been.
God sends His Son Jesus Christ to pay the penalty for this rebellion by dying on the cross, rising from the dead, ascending into Heaven.
Jesus will Return, deal with all the rebellion and set up His everlasting kingdom.
This is written in Daniel 7.

Jesus? he did not pay anything. Staying dead for three days and then come back in full glory is no payment. Everybody would do that.

How do you know Jesus is the Messiah? How do you know a true believer from the false? How do you know the true prophet from the false? By their fruit
““Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:15-20‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Are you making an argument to an atheist by using the Bible? Don't you know that from my vantage point the Bible is as authoritative as Pinocchio? So, I suggest you try to use your own reason instead, without delegating everything to some Bronze Age book.

Ciao

- viole

 

[ElishaElijah]

Which means, not so much in His image, right? Unless you believe God would also be deceived by Satan.

This is what the word image means, so you are mistranslating and interpreting the meaning.

 

[viole]

This is what the word image means, so you are mistranslating and interpreting the meaning.
View attachment 60383

OK. An ape, then. Or great ape, to be precise.

Better?

Ciao

- viole

 

[ElishaElijah]

Jesus? he did not pay anything. Staying dead for three days and then come back is full glory is no payment. Everybody would do that.

There was a debt to pay for sin, only a perfect, sinless person could atone for sin, anyone who sinned couldn’t pay for someone else’s sin.

Jesus? he did not pay anything. Staying dead for three days and then come back in full glory is no payment. Everybody would do that.

“Previously saying, “Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, and offerings for sin You did not desire, nor had pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the law), then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God.” He takes away the first that He may establish the second. By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool. For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified. But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before, “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,” then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.” Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin. Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh, and having a High Priest over the house of God, let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:8-23‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[viole]

There was a debt to pay for sin, only a perfect, sinless person could atone for sin, anyone who sinned couldn’t pay for someone else’s sin.

As I said, that was extraordinarily cheap. I would have expected that paying for my debts would require at least a few months death, not just the weekend. Sort of make you think whether sin is really such a big deal

It is like paying the 1 million dollars debt of a friend, when you know that after the weekend you get the money back in your account. And?
What is so amazing about that? Everybody would pay other people debts like that.

“Previously saying, “Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, and offerings for sin You did not desire, nor had pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the law), then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God.” He takes away the first that He may establish the second. By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool. For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified. But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before, “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,” then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.” Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin. Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh, and having a High Priest over the house of God, let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:8-23‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Again. That was not impressive at all. Everyone would pay debts like that.

Why are you so impressed?

I am afraid, your whole theology is based on nothing really of value. Something that everyone else could have done.

Ciao

- viole

 

[ElishaElijah]

Are you making an argument to an atheist by using the Bible? Don't you know that from my vantage point the Bible is as authoritative as Pinocchio? So, I suggest you try to use your own reason instead, without delegating everything to some Bronze Age book.

The Bible is relevant for today, the law of sowing and reaping is true for natural and spiritual laws.
Plant an apple seed you will get an apple tree.
Jesus communicated spiritual truths using natural everyday farming examples.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Again. That was not impressive at all. Everyone would pay debts like that.

Why are you so impressed?

Impressed because God became a man and lived among us for 33 years, He was tempted in every way yet without sin.
Would like to see you do that for 1 Day. That’s impressive in itself let alone the rest of His life on Earth.

 

[viole]

The Bible is relevant for today, the law of sowing and reaping is true for natural and spiritual laws.
Plant an apple seed you will get an apple tree.
Jesus communicated spiritual truths using natural everyday farming examples.

Well, except that your Jesus resurrection has the same evidence as Pinocchio having grown a long nose.

And how do you know they are spiritual truths, without assuming the whole myth as true?

Ciao

- viole

 

[viole]

Impressed because God became a man and lived among us for 33 years, He was tempted in every way yet without sin.
Would like to see you do that for 1 Day. That’s impressive in itself let alone the rest of His life on Earth.

If I were Jesus, knowing what would happen to me according to Scriptures? That would be a piece of cake. Three days off to return as master of the Universe is a very cheap price.

He was tempted. Do you think it would have been logically possible for Him to succumb to temptation?

Ciao

- viole

 

[ElishaElijah]

Again. That was not impressive at all. Everyone would pay debts like that.

Anyone who has sinned cannot pay the debt for sin, once a person sins they are disqualified to be a sacrifice.
The wages of sin is death so you end up paying for your own sin in hell for eternity unless someone else pays your debt.

 

[viole]

Anyone who has sinned cannot pay the debt for sin, once a person sins they are disqualified to be a sacrifice.
The wages of sin is death so you end up paying for your own sin in hell for eternity unless someone else pays your debt.

You still do not understand. Even if we assume your tale as true, that was a ridiculous payment. I would say, that was no payment at all.

Ciao

- viole

 

[ElishaElijah]

You still do not understand. Even if we assume your tale as true, that was a ridiculous payment. I would say, that was no payment at all.

It’s you who don’t understand the lengths God went to redeem mankind, even thinking His sacrifice was cheap.
In a similar fashion, I will take that to mean that you are saying that every human being who sacrifices their lives to save another person is cheap and costs nothing.
This doesn’t make sense to me because our society holds these kind of people in the highest regard.
To make that statement it would seem like you’ve never sacrificed for anything.

 

[viole]

It’s you who don’t understand the lengths God went to redeem mankind, even thinking His sacrifice was cheap.
In a similar fashion, I will take that to mean that you are saying that every human being who sacrifices their lives to save another person is cheap and costs nothing.
This doesn’t make sense to me because our society holds these kind of people in the highest regard.
To make that statement it would seem like you’ve never sacrificed for anything.

I would never say that. If someone sacrifices her life for some higher ideals, then I think it is honourable. Because that person does not know what happens to her. That deserves a lot of respect.

But Jesus knew what would happen to Him. He said that in the Gospel. So, He sacrificed His life knowing that He will be back alive and kicking after three days.
And that, I am afraid, deserves no respect at all.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Sand Dancer]

Which means, not so much in His image, right? Unless you believe God would also be deceived by Satan.


Jesus? he did not pay anything. Staying dead for three days and then come back in full glory is no payment. Everybody would do that.


Are you making an argument to an atheist by using the Bible? Don't you know that from my vantage point the Bible is as authoritative as Pinocchio? So, I suggest you try to use your own reason instead, without delegating everything to some Bronze Age book.

Ciao

- viole

It takes a lot of work to understand the deep reasoning of why we believe what we do, but those who think their religious texts are inerrant don't have to do the deep reasoning. Easy answers don't take time at all. I think our lives are well spent looking deeper, at least learning about the historical and cultural context of why a text was written the way it was. But not everyone wants to take that time.

 

[viole]

It takes a lot of work to understand the deep reasoning of why we believe what we do, but those who think their religious texts are inerrant don't have to do the deep reasoning. Easy answers don't take time at all. I think our lives are well spent looking deeper, at least learning about the historical and cultural context of why a text was written the way it was. But not everyone wants to take that time.

I understand why. Taking time for that, defeats naive beliefs. However, I think It defeats all beliefs. For no religious belief can possibly sustain the power of elementary logic.

In that respect, all beliefs are logically equivalent. There is not such a think as "progressive modern belief" Vs. "Primitive modern Belief". They both equally believe in things that have not the slightest shred of evidence. People who believe the earth is 6000 years old, and people who believe that God used many more years to develop His creations, are both creationists. People who believe God used evolution are at the same level of creationists who believe God created Eve from a rib. A Christian believing in old earth and evolution as a mean of creation, is the same intellectual level as a creationist believing in a 6000 years old earth, vegetarian T-Rexes and all. There is really no difference from our point of view between creationists, since they base their views on the same evidence. or lack thereof.

And they should be therefore be treated with the same intellectual respect that all creationists deserve. Being them believers in evolution and stuff, or believers in talking snakes and such.

Ciao

- viole