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"The universe has always existed."

shawn001

shawn001

Well-Known Member
Avi1001 said:
We are talking about THE universe. Whether it is THIS universe or a MULTI universe. I think :).
Click to expand...

Okay, they could be quite different each universe could have its own laws.

But lets stick to this one, its the one we live in and can observe. From all of our observations right now its looking like the universe will end in a big freeze. This will be maximum entropy.

The End of Everything

The End of Everything
 
Avi1001

Avi1001

reform Jew humanist liberal feminist entrepreneur
shawn001 said:
Okay, they could be quite different each universe could have its own laws.

But lets stick to this one, its the one we live in and can observe. From all of our observations right now its looking like the universe will end in a big freeze. This will be maximum entropy.

The End of Everything

The End of Everything
Click to expand...

Good article and interesting newsletter, thanks.

Read the 2nd to last paragraph again. It says there could be another Big Bang. When you throw a ball into the air, why does it eventually return ?

No one knows how the universe begins or ends ......
 
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outhouse

outhouse

Atheistically
shawn001 said:
Okay, they could be quite different each universe could have its own laws.

But lets stick to this one, its the one we live in and can observe. From all of our observations right now its looking like the universe will end in a big freeze. This will be maximum entropy.

The End of Everything

The End of Everything
Click to expand...

Makes sense to me.

But there is one wrinkle, black holes and their energy storage. What if enough gather and create another singularity ;)


what if were nothing but old universe reborn.
 
shawn001

shawn001

Well-Known Member
Avi1001 said:
Good article and interesting newsletter, thanks.

Read the 2nd to last paragraph again. It says there could be another Big Bang. When you throw a ball into the air, why does it eventually return ?

No one knows how the universe begins or ends ......
Click to expand...

I agree and I also agree ours could cause another one and could have been caused by one. Its possible.

The question I thought was "internal life of an organism" and entropy and this universe.

If you can move in and out of black holes and say white holes or live at absolute zero without matter, or move in and out of dimensions then perhaps. That too, is only if the other universe exist to begin with? If not and its only this universe life in anyway we might conceive of at this time will not go on eternally, because of the environment.
 
BruceDLimber

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
Avi1001 said:
Please explain how entropy prevents the universe from being either eternal or infinite ?
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Entropy implies that if eternal, it will eventually have long since run down to no activity WHATEVER.

And it's by no means "inexplicable!"

As to eternal life, being non-physical, it isn't affected by entropy.

Bruce
 
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Gjallarhorn

Gjallarhorn

N'yog-Sothep
Avi1001 said:
Do you mean eternal life of a single organism ? How does entropy prevent eternal life ?
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The inevitable heat death of the universe prevents processes such as life that depend on negative entropy to persevere.

Right now we're living off the sun. When there are no suns...
 
Father Heathen

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
Agnostic75 said:
In another thread, a Christian said:

"The universe even by most secular theories did not always exist."

If this universe had a beginning, perhaps the energy that caused it to occur came from another universe. A growing number of physicists believe that that is a reasonable possibility, but have also said that it is not currently possible to test the theory, and might not ever be possible to test.

If the universe begin to expand about 14 billion years ago, perhaps it existed long before that in very small form, but started to expand about 14 billion years ago.
Click to expand...

Existence has always existed, as has it's contents in some form or another.
 
A

Agnostic75

Well-Known Member
I wish to further add that the Christian who I quoted also said that since the universe had a beginning, God is the best explanation for the beginning.
 
idav

idav

Being
Premium Member
Agnostic75 said:
I wish to further add that the Christian who I quoted also said that since the universe had a beginning, God is the best explanation for the beginning.
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Such a god would have to be responsible for all existence but there cannot be a "before" existence and in such a scenario god cant exist without being part of the existence he is supoosed to precede.
 
A

Agnostic75

Well-Known Member
Creature said:
What do we mean when we say "always"? Was time created in the Big Bang too?
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I have read that in this universe, time started with the big bang, but that still leaves the question "what caused the Big Bang to occur?," and we do not know the answer.
 
Mycroft

Mycroft

Ministry of Serendipity
When people talk about 'the beginning of the universe', I always ask, 'What was there the day before the Universe?' It's very difficult to conceieve of a beginning and an end to such things.

When you vaporise a steel ball, the average observer may say 'the ball disappeared!' But it did not, it vaporised, it underwent an intermediate process of change, but the steel ball is still there either as vapour or as radiant energy.
 
egcroc

egcroc

we're all stardust
I feel more lenient to the Big Crunch theory... it says the universe is eternal but not constant, it goes through infinite cycles of expansion and contraction, causing infinite big bangs and big crunches..
big-crunch-theory-big-bounce.jpg
 
nazz

nazz

Doubting Thomas
egcroc said:
I feel more lenient to the Big Crunch theory... it says the universe is eternal but not constant, it goes through infinite cycles of expansion and contraction, causing infinite big bangs and big crunches..
big-crunch-theory-big-bounce.jpg
Click to expand...

But it's not supported by current science. Of course that could change.
 
egcroc

egcroc

we're all stardust
nazz said:
But it's not supported by current science. Of course that could change.
Click to expand...

to say it's not supported by science is a little far fetched, I'm well aware the current evidence we have (accelerating expansion of the universe) is more favorable to its rival the big freeze theory, However, since the nature of the dark energy that is postulated to drive the acceleration is unknown, it is still possible that it might eventually reverse sign and cause a collapse.

so you see, the ultimate fate of the universe depends on the outcome of the cosmic dark matter vs. dark energy battle; two things that we have no idea of their nature, or even if they exist... we just have to wait and see till science figures it out, or we see it happening for ourselves, whichever is closer...
 
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