The Universe if Fine-Tuned for AIDS, War and Destruction.

[Revoltingest]

Any universe capable of supporting AID's is going to encounter all kinds of things. Rocks. Lifeforms. Politics. Drug Use. Love and Life and Happiness. But all of that stuff is just further necessary conditions to reach a complete fine tuning.

This isn't clear.

 

[dust1n]

This isn't clear.

It's as clear as the notion that the universe is as fine-tuned for humans.

 

[chevron1]

Wait, whoa... huh?

that is: "aids and hiv come from the time of the no time of the two times of the best times."

 

[dust1n]

that is: "aids and hiv come from the time of the no time of the two times of the best times."

Yes, I guess I got that far, but I'm not sure what time "the time of the no time of the two times of the best times" refers to.

 

[chevron1]

Yes, I guess I got that far, but I'm not sure what time "the time of the no time of the two times of the best times" refers to.

it refers to how we see the world in the time of aids and hiv and the place we see it.

 

[viole]

Everyone knows that there are a few physical constants that if they were even slightly changed, would result in an entirely different universe, and thus, no AIDS, War and Destruction. It's for this reason that I argue that the universe is fine-tuned for these things, and if such a tuning were tuned differently, none of these things exist.

Which brings up another point. Since the universe if fine-tuned for AIDS, War and Destruction, there must be some sort of agency behind this fine-tuning. I mean, for it to happen randomly, the chances would have to be so small. SO small. Therefore, it seems far more likely that God fine-tuned these universal parameters specifically so that AIDS, War and Destruction could exist.






Replace "AIDS, War and Destruction" with "people" or "life" and you will see how absurd the argument from fine-tuning is.

Ergo, Heaven is not fine tuned. Correct?

Ciao

- viole

 

[columbus]

Zawk is a complex hydrocarbon. When applied to human infants it eliminates the instinctive tendencies to murder, rape, and theft we evolved. It leaves everyone intelligent, rational, upbeat and productive.

Unfortunately the universe is fine tuned in such a way as to only form zawk on one planet. That planet is about seven billion light years away, orbiting a white dwarf star, with an average surface temperature of 7000K.
So we're just stuck here with what we've got.
Tom

 

[dust1n]

it refers to how we see the world in the time of aids and hiv and the place we see it.

I guess I'm missing the takeaway.

 

[dust1n]

Ergo, Heaven is not fine tuned. Correct?

Ciao

- viole

Who knows? Presumably any realm under the ID is fine-tuned to whatever those things accomplish.

 

[dust1n]

Zawk is a complex hydrocarbon. When applied to human infants it eliminates the instinctive tendencies to murder, rape, and theft we evolved. It leaves everyone intelligent, rational, upbeat and productive.

Unfortunately the universe is fine tuned in such a way as to only form zawk on one planet. That planet is about seven billion light years away, orbiting a white dwarf star, with an average surface temperature of 7000K.
So we're just stuck here with what we've got.
Tom

We don't even know if it is still there! We can only see the only zawk as it was seven billion years ago.

 

[Revoltingest]

It's as clear as the notion that the universe is as fine-tuned for humans.

I find this notion much clearer.
(But I don't buy it.)

 

[Guy Threepwood]

Everyone knows that there are a few physical constants that if they were even slightly changed, would result in an entirely different universe, and thus, no AIDS, War and Destruction. It's for this reason that I argue that the universe is fine-tuned for these things, and if such a tuning were tuned differently, none of these things exist.

Which brings up another point. Since the universe if fine-tuned for AIDS, War and Destruction, there must be some sort of agency behind this fine-tuning. I mean, for it to happen randomly, the chances would have to be so small. SO small. Therefore, it seems far more likely that God fine-tuned these universal parameters specifically so that AIDS, War and Destruction could exist.

I always thought 'fine tuning' was an inappropriate term for the universe. It suggests as a given, a pre-existing universe machine than merely needs tuned with a few dials to produce miracles like life.

The universe represents the ultimate masterpiece of engineering design, which is also finely tuned on top of that if you like...

 

[amorphous_constellation]

That's an incredibly sophisticated tuning for AID's to exist. Do you think it's per chance that such a finely-tuned AID's world could be created?

Not at all. You know, I was just thinking the other day, how many other planets have mammals on them? Scientists keep talking about the good zone for life on planets, and that apparently makes the bandwidth pretty narrow. Conversely, it also probably narrows out the kind of creatures you will see. So if one was to hop over to the next solar system with an earth-like planet, what makes them think they wouldn't get earth-like creatures? They'd probably find things extremely close to mammals and reptiles just like we have here. Then they might see among those mammals one that developed a good throwing arm and learned how to make fire, and they'd be winning the battle against all their mega-fauna. Now mammals tend to attract parasites, and they are great vectors for bacteria and viruses. If I had to guess, I'd guess there were also viruses there that caused immunodeficiency and hemorrhagic bleeding etc etc.

 

[chevron1]

I guess I'm missing the takeaway.

the takeaway is the best time to be in love.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Imagine how many things needed to happen from the birth of the universe until now in order for me to make this post. If any tiny step along the way didn't happen just so, I wouldn't have made this post. The universe is so, obviously, fine-tuned for resulting in me having made this post, that it's ridiculous to think that me making this post is just mere chance. It must be that this universe was created especially for me to make this post.

Expect the end to come at any point now that the universe has served its purpose.

 

[dust1n]

I find this notion much clearer.
(But I don't buy it.)

What's the difference in clarity between the two matters? The soundness of the argument don't become invalid because what's true for humans isn't true for anything else.

 

[Revoltingest]

What's the difference in clarity between the two matters? The soundness of the argument don't become invalid because what's true for humans isn't true for anything else.

I'm becoming lost in this exchange.
(Brain degradation.)
Suffice to say that the fine tuned argument is easy to understand.
It's one explanation for a universe conducive to life existing.
The multi-verse is another workable one.
It's above my pay grade to say what's actually going on though.

 

[idav]

Everyone knows that there are a few physical constants that if they were even slightly changed, would result in an entirely different universe, and thus, no AIDS, War and Destruction. It's for this reason that I argue that the universe is fine-tuned for these things, and if such a tuning were tuned differently, none of these things exist.

Which brings up another point. Since the universe if fine-tuned for AIDS, War and Destruction, there must be some sort of agency behind this fine-tuning. I mean, for it to happen randomly, the chances would have to be so small. SO small. Therefore, it seems far more likely that God fine-tuned these universal parameters specifically so that AIDS, War and Destruction could exist.






Replace "AIDS, War and Destruction" with "people" or "life" and you will see how absurd the argument from fine-tuning is.

The idea is the complexity makes it seem fine tuned. Like AIDS is too intelligent to be a product of random chance. Of course that is turtles all the way down replaced with intelligence. Heck I couldn't even tell, if it were fine tuned, where things like AIDS is more genius than maniacal.

I believe there is intelligence everywhere but there is no way to say whether it was purposeful because we lack the perspective. Like a human cell asking if he body has any purpose when really the cell is doing the will of the body without knowing it, limited in perspective.

 

[dust1n]

I always thought 'fine tuning' was an inappropriate term for the universe. It suggests as a given, a pre-existing universe machine than merely needs tuned with a few dials to produce miracles like life.

The universe represents the ultimate masterpiece of engineering design, which is also finely tuned on top of that if you like...

Good point. The universe is like an ultimate masterpiece of design for AID's and war, more than just being finely tuned to it.

 

[dust1n]

Not at all. You know, I was just thinking the other day, how many other planets have mammals on them? Scientists keep talking about the good zone for life on planets, and that apparently makes the bandwidth pretty narrow. Conversely, it also probably narrows out the kind of creatures you will see. So if one was to hop over to the next solar system with an earth-like planet, what makes them think they wouldn't get earth-like creatures? They'd probably find things extremely close to mammals and reptiles just like we have here. Then they might see among those mammals one that developed a good throwing arm and learned how to make fire, and they'd be winning the battle against all their mega-fauna. Now mammals tend to attract parasites, and they are great vectors for bacteria and viruses. If I had to guess, I'd guess there were also viruses there that caused immunodeficiency and hemorrhagic bleeding etc etc.

I couldn't go that far to speculate such a notion. The majority of the diversity and richness life is in the microbial world, and what thrives on the microbial atmosphere on the particular composition of a planet is going to the foundations for the larger things that follow. Although, the first thing I'd expect to find a long any living things anyone came across would be diseases.

Come to the think of it. The universe is perfectly-tuned for the existence of all things that do now currently exist.