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The US is a super power, but does it deserve it?
- Thread starter Antibush5
- Start date
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
I think 'deserve' is one of the most meaningless words in the English language.
BucephalusBB
ABACABB
In a moral sense, nope. But morality doesn't create superpowers. There is something in the word "super - power" that just does not scream morality..
McBell
Unbound
I have to agree.
McBell
Unbound
What does morality have to do with being a super-power?
Just_me_Mike
Well-Known Member
Yes the US deserves what it has from it's own vantage point. You see if the powers that be felt it ok to rape and conquer the natives that lived here long ago, and felt doubly ok to use slaves to further their deserved land and goals, it stands to reason no one deserves America more than those that think in such ways. Survival of the fittest, that is the true motto of the US, sold as freedom and liberty for anyone who wants it.
The US is among the top ranks when it comes to double talk hypocrisy about what it claims to be about and what it actually does through actions.
Though it is even sadder many say it is still the best, most free place to live when compared to elsewhere. Never was there a truer case of taking the lesser of evils.
The US is among the top ranks when it comes to double talk hypocrisy about what it claims to be about and what it actually does through actions.
Though it is even sadder many say it is still the best, most free place to live when compared to elsewhere. Never was there a truer case of taking the lesser of evils.
When you study U.S. history, I think you might find out. The U.S. deserves to be a super power just as much as Nazi Germany deserved to be a super power. They are both responsible for mass genocide and took vast territory that wasn't theirs, raped, plundered, and murdered those that they conquered, etc. The original U.S. constitution was a racist document, and the U.S. still reeks of institutionalized racism.
Does it deserve power? Not if the basis of its power is murder, theft, and exploitation.
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Smoke
Done here.
No. I'm not sure what a country would have to do to deserve it, but I think it's safe to assume the U.S. hasn't met that standard.
You may have a point.
McBell
Unbound
Again, what does morality have to do with being a super-power?
I mean, outside of your personal feelings that being a super-power is some sort of reward for being moral?
Antibush5
Active Member
That is a question for another thread. I am just asking if you think that the U.S is moral.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
There's not a nation in history which doesn't have a track record of human rights violations and bloodshed - murder, theft, exploitation, you name it. Unfortunately, it seems that when it comes to humanity - you're either powerful, or subjugated. I prefer being powerful.
The US gives about .2 percent of it's GDP to foreign aid. This is simply the federal aid, and does not even take into consideration charitable giving by private groups and individuals. It also doesn't take into consideration the cost related to the fact that the United States provides the most protection of sea lanes important for international trade.
Though the US percentage of GDP given to foreign aid (which does not include the billions spent on rebuilding in Iraq and Afghanistan) is small, the dollar amount is the largest of any country in the world.
Take into consideration the private donations to international aid - estimates are at $16 BILLION per year - and I would say that US citizens are very generous, among the most generous in the world. We have a fine tradition of international generosity in times of trouble, tragedy, and chaos.
Do "we deserve" to be a superpower? First of all, who is "we?" Are the private citizens of the United States guilty of something, which would make us undeserving of our country's prosperity? What can we do today about our past history of slavery or our history with the native peoples of this continent?
Secondly, what's this about "deserving" to be a superpower? As an American citizen, I can assure you I never asked for our nation to be a superpower, and I have never wished ill for any other nation or group of people. But I do expect my government to continue to do it's job of protecting the wellbeing of my family and my nation's security. I expect to continue to have the freedom to work, prosper, and give generously to those in need - which so far, I do enjoy. I am not untypical when it comes to Americans - every pay period I send money to various charities, both here and abroad. This is not unusual for a US citizen.
If we were not so prosperous, wouldn't the recipients of our international aid also suffer?
What would be gained by dismantling this "superpower?" When a vaccuum is created, something will fill it's place. As we "lose power," someone else will gain it. History has shown us many horrors, many horrific rulers and despots. Before we dismantle one power, we better be sure we know what is going to take it's place. Take a look at recent history - was Russia better off with czars, or with Lenin and Stalin and the KGB? Was Iraq better off with Saddam Hussein in power (ask the Kurds) or now?
The US gives about .2 percent of it's GDP to foreign aid. This is simply the federal aid, and does not even take into consideration charitable giving by private groups and individuals. It also doesn't take into consideration the cost related to the fact that the United States provides the most protection of sea lanes important for international trade.
Though the US percentage of GDP given to foreign aid (which does not include the billions spent on rebuilding in Iraq and Afghanistan) is small, the dollar amount is the largest of any country in the world.
Take into consideration the private donations to international aid - estimates are at $16 BILLION per year - and I would say that US citizens are very generous, among the most generous in the world. We have a fine tradition of international generosity in times of trouble, tragedy, and chaos.
Do "we deserve" to be a superpower? First of all, who is "we?" Are the private citizens of the United States guilty of something, which would make us undeserving of our country's prosperity? What can we do today about our past history of slavery or our history with the native peoples of this continent?
Secondly, what's this about "deserving" to be a superpower? As an American citizen, I can assure you I never asked for our nation to be a superpower, and I have never wished ill for any other nation or group of people. But I do expect my government to continue to do it's job of protecting the wellbeing of my family and my nation's security. I expect to continue to have the freedom to work, prosper, and give generously to those in need - which so far, I do enjoy. I am not untypical when it comes to Americans - every pay period I send money to various charities, both here and abroad. This is not unusual for a US citizen.
If we were not so prosperous, wouldn't the recipients of our international aid also suffer?
What would be gained by dismantling this "superpower?" When a vaccuum is created, something will fill it's place. As we "lose power," someone else will gain it. History has shown us many horrors, many horrific rulers and despots. Before we dismantle one power, we better be sure we know what is going to take it's place. Take a look at recent history - was Russia better off with czars, or with Lenin and Stalin and the KGB? Was Iraq better off with Saddam Hussein in power (ask the Kurds) or now?
The US Government sometimes acts in ways that are compatible with a sound morality, but my impression is that it most often does not.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
What government does? I suggest that the level of corruption directly correlates to the level of power.
Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. To repeat something that's unoriginal but also pretty universally true.
McBell
Unbound
Based upon what standards of "deserve" and "moral"?
For example, based upon the standard that many theists use for god, that might makes right, then yes, the USA does deserve it.
The gaining or maintenance of power often times demands the violation of treaties, domestic and international law, human rights violations, manipulation of public opinion, etc.
I never stated that being a super-power is some sort of reward for being moral. It is my opinion that in order to be a super power, a nation must continually violate its own norms (mores and laws) along with the norms of other cultures.If you look at history, every superpower has done so. I am willing to bet that there is a strong correlation between power and norm violation.
Sometimes when people attempt to objectify everything, they eliminate things which are integral to the human experience. The OP has nothing to do with the objective non-existence of morality, the subjective relativity of morality, or the semantical meaning of "morality" and "deserve" (that would be another topic of discussion). The question is simple. Analyzing it further than what is necessary is nonsensical.
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Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
It looks like the American status as a super power will be by historical standards rather short.
It is already showing signs of coming to an end.
Perhaps this is the future for super powers... a quick rise and a quick fall.
But I rather doubt that will be the case for China,
They always have taken the long view.
Morality has never been part of the equation.
It is already showing signs of coming to an end.
Perhaps this is the future for super powers... a quick rise and a quick fall.
But I rather doubt that will be the case for China,
They always have taken the long view.
Morality has never been part of the equation.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
China has manpower but one thing has remained constant throughout it's history - the wealth is clustered around the coastline, and poverty is crushing within most of the interior. This has not changed, in spite of technological advances.
Also, China doesn't have the geographical assets necessary to be a superpower. It is hemmed in by too many unstable countries which are also poverty stricken for the most part. China does not have the military might to be aggressive toward countries that would be a worthwhile conquest. It also doesn't have the economy to support much expansion, let alone dominance.
When we think of China, we think of the centers of culture and business. What we tend to forget is the vastness of China's interior, and the horrific conditions which exist within in so many parts. That's not sexy, provocative news but it's still the reality.
Also, China doesn't have the geographical assets necessary to be a superpower. It is hemmed in by too many unstable countries which are also poverty stricken for the most part. China does not have the military might to be aggressive toward countries that would be a worthwhile conquest. It also doesn't have the economy to support much expansion, let alone dominance.
When we think of China, we think of the centers of culture and business. What we tend to forget is the vastness of China's interior, and the horrific conditions which exist within in so many parts. That's not sexy, provocative news but it's still the reality.