The USA.........?

[Sand Dancer]

One thing improving....
Fewer in U.S. Now See Bible as Literal Word of God
Excerpted...
WASHINGTON, D.C. -- A record-low 20% of Americans now say the Bible is the literal word of God, down from 24% the last time the question was asked in 2017, and half of what it was at its high points in 1980 and 1984. Meanwhile, a new high of 29% say the Bible is a collection of "fables, legends, history and moral precepts recorded by man." This marks the first time significantly more Americans have viewed the Bible as not divinely inspired than as the literal word of God. The largest percentage, 49%, choose the middle alternative, roughly in line with where it has been in previous years.

It's sad that it's that high...but it's a great trend.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Democracy in America By Alexis de Tocqueville - a much heralded classic.

From the publisher:

Democracy in America has had the singular honor of being even to this day the work that political commentators of every stripe refer to when they seek to draw large conclusions about the society of the United States. Alexis de Tocqueville, a young French aristocrat, came to the young nation to investigate the functioning of American democracy and the social, political, and economic life of its citizens, publishing his observations in 1835 and 1840. Brilliantly written and vividly illustrated with vignettes and portraits, Democracy in America is far more than a trenchant analysis of one society at a particular point in time. What will most intrigue modern readers is how many of Tocqueville’s observations still hold true: on the mixed advantages of a free press, the strained relations among the races, and the threats posed to democracies by consumerism and corruption.​

Sadly, poor Alexis died too soon to benefit from the trenchant analysis of @Truth in love but it's still a pretty good read.

 

[Revoltingest]

It's sad that it's that high...but it's a great trend.

Improvement is always good.
Better to dwell on that than the negative.

 

[Truth in love]

I'm not "attacking" you -- I am pointing out that you do not seem to understand that being a "republic" does not in any way prevent also being a democracy, at one and the same time.

Overly-simplistic definitions lead to over-simplistic conclusions, and those are almost universally wrong.

The definition of "republic" is given as:

"A state in which supreme power is held by the people and their elected representatives, and which has an elected or nominated president rather than a monarch."

Please look carefully at that: "supreme power is held by the people." And what is "people" in Greek (where many of our terms come from)?

Democracy (from Greek δημοκρατία (dēmokratía) dēmos 'people' and kratos 'rule' is a form of government in which the people have the authority to deliberate and decide legislation ("direct democracy"), or to choose governing officials to do so ("representative democracy").

You are a Republic which is also a democracy. Get over it.

The rest of your post needs more careful thought, since almost all of my immediate responses would have forced poor @RayofLight to have to return to work from the sick bed to censure me.

Being a cat does not mean your not a dog????

Definition of Constitutional Republic
Noun

1. A form of government in which officials are elected by citizens to lead them as directed by their country’s constitution.

https://legaldictionary.net/constitutional-republic/

Now they are not wholly different, but there are some vital differences.
1. The election of a president is NOT by popular vote.
2. There are legal limits in place(sadly often ignored) that restrict what the government can do.
3. minority groups have rights even if they are unpopular.
4. Law making occurs by acts of congress not popular vote.

In a true democracy 50%+1 have total control of everything. You can be beheaded if they want to. You have no legal rights only the privileges extended to you by the majority.

So again simple facts, feel free to “get over” your misunderstandings of how the USA government functions.

 

[Truth in love]

Democracy in America By Alexis de Tocqueville - a much heralded classic.

From the publisher:

Democracy in America has had the singular honor of being even to this day the work that political commentators of every stripe refer to when they seek to draw large conclusions about the society of the United States. Alexis de Tocqueville, a young French aristocrat, came to the young nation to investigate the functioning of American democracy and the social, political, and economic life of its citizens, publishing his observations in 1835 and 1840. Brilliantly written and vividly illustrated with vignettes and portraits, Democracy in America is far more than a trenchant analysis of one society at a particular point in time. What will most intrigue modern readers is how many of Tocqueville’s observations still hold true: on the mixed advantages of a free press, the strained relations among the races, and the threats posed to democracies by consumerism and corruption.​

Sadly, poor Alexis died too soon to benefit from the trenchant analysis of @Truth in love but it's still a pretty good read.

Facts are facts I’m not to pretend otherwise or apologize that you disagree with a firmly established reality of government.

 

[Watchmen]

The USA is a very interesting place

I have always found it fascinating

It has given so much to the world and still does...

I studied American politics at college (amongst other things) and got a B in it

I aim to go on holiday there some day

But there is no way on Earth I would ever want to live there

Or be an American

Because of all the guns and the absence of any welfare state

Also, I am sorry to say that it is so obviously an oligarchy dressed up as a democracy

And there is only an extremely tiny and marginalised socialist movement

So, go on holiday there? - absolutely!

Want to be an American? - no way!

And no, I am not saying that my own country is perfect, or somehow better

Your fears are overblown by extremist media. You are way more likely to suffer any variety of ailments than be killed in a mass shooting in America. There is also massive welfare systems in place — they’re just state run rather than federally run.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Being a cat does not mean your not a dog????

Don't be daft. Improper comparisons won't enlighten anyone. No cats aren't dogs and dogs aren't cats, but both are animals, both are mammals, vertebrates, etc. They share many features.

Definition of Constitutional Republic
Noun

1. A form of government in which officials are elected by citizens to lead them as directed by their country’s constitution.

https://legaldictionary.net/constitutional-republic/

Now they are not wholly different, but there are some vital differences.
1. The election of a president is NOT by popular vote.
2. There are legal limits in place(sadly often ignored) that restrict what the government can do.
3. minority groups have rights even if they are unpopular.
4. Law making occurs by acts of congress not popular vote.

In a true democracy 50%+1 have total control of everything. You can be beheaded if they want to. You have no legal rights only the privileges extended to you by the majority.

So again simple facts, feel free to “get over” your misunderstandings of how the USA government functions.

Cats and dogs aren't "wholly different" either, but as I said, they are both mammals.

The way you are defining it, there are precisely zero democracies in the world. All of them, without exception, are constrained by constitutions aimed at precisely the things you mention -- legal limits (even with a large plurality of votes), protection for minorities, and law making by elected representatives.

Canada is a "parliamentary democracy," and our PM is not elected by popullar vote, either, but by the number of seats won in the House of Commons. Similar to Britain, which is a "constitutional monarchy," with a Parliament elected every 5 years, and the PM also indirectly, by the number of seats won in the House of Commons.

Like it or not, the US is a democracy. Members of the Law-Making body (Congress) are directly elected. The President can issue Executive Orders, but they are temporary, and easily rescinded by the next President. While not elected by popular vote (as in Canada, Britain, Australia, New Zealand, etc.) the President is still elected by an Electoral College, made up of representatives chosen through the direct vote in each state. All of that is democracy, just with variations.

 

[Truth in love]

Don't be daft. Improper comparisons won't enlighten anyone. No cats aren't dogs and dogs aren't cats, but both are animals, both are mammals, vertebrates, etc. They share many features.

Cats and dogs aren't "wholly different" either, but as I said, they are both mammals.

The way you are defining it, there are precisely zero democracies in the world. All of them, without exception, are constrained by constitutions aimed at precisely the things you mention -- legal limits (even with a large plurality of votes), protection for minorities, and law making by elected representatives.

Canada is a "parliamentary democracy," and our PM is not elected by popullar vote, either, but by the number of seats won in the House of Commons. Similar to Britain, which is a "constitutional monarchy," with a Parliament elected every 5 years, and the PM also indirectly, by the number of seats won in the House of Commons.

Like it or not, the US is a democracy. Members of the Law-Making body (Congress) are directly elected. The President can issue Executive Orders, but they are temporary, and easily rescinded by the next President. While not elected by popular vote (as in Canada, Britain, Australia, New Zealand, etc.) the President is still elected by an Electoral College, made up of representatives chosen through the direct vote in each state. All of that is democracy, just with variations.

“Daft” really. I state what is fact you don’t like it so you insult me.

I see you don’t know how the electoral collage works. The electors are in number the same as the numbers of persons in both houses of congress, however other persons are chosen and they are NOT directly voted on.

Feel free to learn how the system works. Also feel free to engage in an adult discussion or go away.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

“Daft” really. I state what is fact you don’t like it so you insult me.

I see you don’t know how the electoral collage works. The electors are in number the same as the numbers of persons in both houses of congress, however other persons are chosen and they are NOT directly voted on.

Feel free to learn how the system works. Also feel free to engage in an adult discussion or go away.

I do, however, know how college is spelled.

You are claiming the US is NOT a democracy, on the basis that the President is not elected by popular vote, and that the Constitution provides protection for minorities against the tyranny of the majority. That is what your claims amount to.

Unfortunately, you are trying to pretend that democracy is limited to what James Madison and other founders referred to as "pure" democracy -- every eligible voter votes for every law. This is workable only extremely locally -- not more than a few hundreds of eligible voters at most. The founders, aware of this, created what they called a "republic"

When founding thinkers such as Madison spoke of democracy, they were usually referring to direct democracy, what Madison frequently labeled “pure” democracy. Madison made the distinction between a republic and a direct democracy exquisitely clear in "Federalist No. 14": “In a democracy, the people meet and exercise the government in person; in a republic, they assemble and administer it by their representatives and agents. A democracy, consequently, will be confined to a small spot. A republic may be extended over a large region.” Both a democracy and a republic were popular forms of government: Each drew its legitimacy from the people and depended on rule by the people. The crucial difference was that a republic relied on representation, while in a “pure” democracy, the people represented themselves. Rembember this: "“that these dead shall not have died in vain– that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth” (U.S. President Abraham Lincoln -- The Gettysburg Address, November 19, 1863)? It is one of the best known speeches in world history and perhaps one of the greatest and most influential statements for any form of democracy.

But please note the bolded statements -- these are what makes the Republic a democracy: as I explained earlier, the people (demos) rule (kratos). I point out further that all members of the House, Senate, Administration and Judiciary -- with the notable exception of a few Republicans -- speak often of "defending our democracy."

Thus, those Republicans who depend on a minority of the population to hold national power, such as Senator Mike Lee of Utah, have taken to reminding the public that “we’re not a democracy.” This is quaint, because so many Republicans who worship Trump (who routinely tramples constitutional norms), have suddenly found their voice in pointing out that, formally, the country is a republic. While there is a little bit truth to this insistence, it is mostly disingenuous. The Constitution was meant to foster a complex form of majority rule, not enable minority rule.

So you can nit-pick all you want with your terrified Republican buddies -- but it's still a democracy. Just a complex one. Bouillabaisse is still soup, no matter how complex -- and whether it has lobster or doesn't.

 

[Truth in love]

I do, however, know how college is spelled.

You are claiming the US is NOT a democracy, on the basis that the President is not elected by popular vote, and that the Constitution provides protection for minorities against the tyranny of the majority. That is what your claims amount to.

Unfortunately, you are trying to pretend that democracy is limited to what James Madison and other founders referred to as "pure" democracy -- every eligible voter votes for every law. This is workable only extremely locally -- not more than a few hundreds of eligible voters at most. The founders, aware of this, created what they called a "republic"

When founding thinkers such as Madison spoke of democracy, they were usually referring to direct democracy, what Madison frequently labeled “pure” democracy. Madison made the distinction between a republic and a direct democracy exquisitely clear in "Federalist No. 14": “In a democracy, the people meet and exercise the government in person; in a republic, they assemble and administer it by their representatives and agents. A democracy, consequently, will be confined to a small spot. A republic may be extended over a large region.” Both a democracy and a republic were popular forms of government: Each drew its legitimacy from the people and depended on rule by the people. The crucial difference was that a republic relied on representation, while in a “pure” democracy, the people represented themselves. Rembember this: "“that these dead shall not have died in vain– that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth” (U.S. President Abraham Lincoln -- The Gettysburg Address, November 19, 1863)? It is one of the best known speeches in world history and perhaps one of the greatest and most influential statements for any form of democracy.

But please note the bolded statements -- these are what makes the Republic a democracy: as I explained earlier, the people (demos) rule (kratos). I point out further that all members of the House, Senate, Administration and Judiciary -- with the notable exception of a few Republicans -- speak often of "defending our democracy."

Thus, those Republicans who depend on a minority of the population to hold national power, such as Senator Mike Lee of Utah, have taken to reminding the public that “we’re not a democracy.” This is quaint, because so many Republicans who worship Trump (who routinely tramples constitutional norms), have suddenly found their voice in pointing out that, formally, the country is a republic. While there is a little bit truth to this insistence, it is mostly disingenuous. The Constitution was meant to foster a complex form of majority rule, not enable minority rule.

So you can nit-pick all you want with your terrified Republican buddies -- but it's still a democracy. Just a complex one. Bouillabaisse is still soup, no matter how complex -- and whether it has lobster or doesn't.

I decline to buy that 2+2=5

 

[JIMMY12345]

Fair point about cycling in the USA.Poor Lance Armstrong was deliberately run over by a truck when he was younger.

 

[JIMMY12345]

The USA is a very interesting place

I have always found it fascinating

It has given so much to the world and still does...

I studied American politics at college (amongst other things) and got a B in it

I aim to go on holiday there some day

But there is no way on Earth I would ever want to live there

Or be an American

Because of all the guns and the absence of any welfare state

Also, I am sorry to say that it is so obviously an oligarchy dressed up as a democracy

And there is only an extremely tiny and marginalised socialist movement

So, go on holiday there? - absolutely!

Want to be an American? - no way!

And no, I am not saying that my own country is perfect, or somehow better

Perhaps the Americans should be more principled.

The USA is a very interesting place

I have always found it fascinating

It has given so much to the world and still does...

I studied American politics at college (amongst other things) and got a B in it

I aim to go on holiday there some day

But there is no way on Earth I would ever want to live there

Or be an American

Because of all the guns and the absence of any welfare state

Also, I am sorry to say that it is so obviously an oligarchy dressed up as a democracy

And there is only an extremely tiny and marginalised socialist movement

So, go on holiday there? - absolutely!

Want to be an American? - no way!

And no, I am not saying that my own country is perfect, or somehow better

Places like USA and UK have rule of law and respect of the individual.This is why in the days of the Iron curtain/wall there was a one way traffic in one direction.Those days are coming back.Lots of Russians diplomats dream of defecting to the USA.They are not alone its world wide.They just can't say it to loudly or softly-they would get slung into prison.Trouble is lots of Americans do not realise how lucky they are.

 

[BrightShadow]

The USA is a very interesting place

I have always found it fascinating

It has given so much to the world and still does...

I studied American politics at college (amongst other things) and got a B in it

I aim to go on holiday there some day

But there is no way on Earth I would ever want to live there

Or be an American

Because of all the guns and the absence of any welfare state

Also, I am sorry to say that it is so obviously an oligarchy dressed up as a democracy

And there is only an extremely tiny and marginalised socialist movement

So, go on holiday there? - absolutely!

Want to be an American? - no way!

And no, I am not saying that my own country is perfect, or somehow better

Despite the political gridlock and all the other wide range of challenging issues United States is facing today - it is still the best country in the world! IMO
Between far-right extremism and far-left stupidism (America last policies) - there is not much room for improvement and it currently finding it hard to move forward in any positive direction, but still you cannot imagine a world without good old USA!
USA may not exhibit the best outcome of democracy but it does prove democracy is still 100 times better than autocracy (whether its one person, a regime or one party). If you value freedom - countries like Russia or China will not stand beside you!
I doubt you will prefer a world were countries like Russia or China is not sitting in the back seats but actually driving the car because they would certainly drive you on a much selfish path than USA ever has. Of course America is prejudice (sometimes) when it must decide between two sides and I am doubtful that will ever change but you still need USA to balance everything!
I have been to almost every state. There is something for everyone!