The Wall Street Protests

[Alceste]

They demonstrate, they moan, they write books on it but they rarely seem to aim for getting into a position where they can actually change things.

This for example I agree with the cause I just think a more useful way of doing things would be people who believe these things running for office, or working at these corporations trying to change things from the inside

That's is a pretty naive attitude. When you join the capitalist feeding frenzy, you don't change it: it changes you.

I think you complain quite a bit for somebody who can't stand complainers. Why not join the protests so you can persuade them to run for office instead?

 

[Alceste]

The rich, the corporatists, the clergy and the royals have always been pretty good at keeping progressives out of positions of power.

A couple of recent US presidential elections come to mind....

Aint that the truth! They seem to think that calling Obama, who is to the right of Ronald Reagan, a "socialist" is enough to convince progressives they have a voice, or faint hope of attaining one at some future time.

 

[Valjean]

They've successfully turned "socialist" and even "liberal" into threatening concepts.

 

[Alceste]

They've successfully turned "socialist" and even "liberal" into threatening concepts.

Making oligarchy into a warm fuzzy-feeling political ideology for mainstream Americans was a real coup.

 

[Revoltingest]

Aint that the truth! They seem to think that calling Obama, who is to the right of Ronald Reagan.....

Good heavens...there's one I wouldn't touch even with Seyorni's 10 foot pole.

.....enough to convince progressives they have a voice, or faint hope of attaining one at some future time.

We, of The Libertarian Party, are the only "true" progressives, of course.
(The others are just statists who gussy up their platform with empty populist rhetoric.)
And to be candid, I don't know what fraction of us actually think we have a real voice.
I'm sure some do think that, but a great many of us also know that we just throw our votes away every election.
Maybe when the revolution comes, we'll have a place at the table......or the rack.

As for the Wall St protestors....they failed to gather any steam, unlike VN war protestors.
Laudable efforts sometimes amount to no more than p*****g up wind.

That's is a pretty naive attitude. When you join the capitalist feeding frenzy....

Holy cow....for someone who disses capitalism, you sure picked the wrong country to live in.
I'd say Canuckistan is at least as capitalistic as the US, & getting relatively more so.
But good luck on writing a great resume so that you can join the frenzy too!

 

[Panda]

That's is a pretty naive attitude. When you join the capitalist feeding frenzy, you don't change it: it changes you.

I think it is just as naive as thinking protests like this change anything. The only real way things will change will be when the people that make the decisions want them to. The recent student protests in the UK comes to mind.

I think you complain quite a bit for somebody who can't stand complainers. Why not join the protests so you can persuade them to run for office instead?

I never said I can't stand complains. I said I think protesting is a waste of time, normally.

 

[YmirGF]

I never said I can't stand complains. I said I think protesting is a waste of time, normally.

I'm not so much interested in their complaints. Anyone with an IQ over the double-digit range out to be able to discern imbalances in our system. What I am interested in is the viability of any alternatives that they propose. Last I checked, they were big on what was wrong, but not so hot on how to change things.

 

[Alceste]

I think it is just as naive as thinking protests like this change anything. The only real way things will change will be when the people that make the decisions want them to. The recent student protests in the UK comes to mind.



I never said I can't stand complains. I said I think protesting is a waste of time, normally.

Protests in the Clayoquot Sound succeeded in getting huge tracts of old growth forest protected from clear cutting and forced the industry to come to the table to discuss sustainable forest practices with environmental groups.

Protests of new coal plants in the UK have been pretty successful at turning the tide.

The strategy can be effective, but it has to be sustained. You can't treat it like a one day street party, like the war protests. We should have stayed out in the streets back then, and the lack of government accountability should have culminated in a general strike. The powers that be have to see for themselves that it isn't going to blow over. They believe they subscribe to democratic values, so unlike Ghadaffi, they will eventually respond to public pressure. The public only has to break through the echo chamber of corporate lobbyist opinions that insulates government from the public interest. They should do it in any way they can, including taking to the streets.

 

[Valjean]

Good heavens...there's one I wouldn't touch even with Seyorni's 10 foot pole.

But he really is, by historical standards, right of Reagan. The last liberal president we had -- by today's standards -- was Nixon. eek

And my pole is actually just three metres, my parochial friend.

 

[Reverend Rick]

My my my, where to begin.......

People came to this country to reap the benefits of their hard work and sacrifice.

People came to this country to have religious freedom.

They traveled so far and gave up so much to start a new beginning for a better life.

A better life means keeping the fruits of your labor and achieving more.

I guess our forefathers where greedy religious nuts! :ignore:

What is wrong with American exceptionalism?

Once upon a time you where born unto your class with no hope of ever climbing to the top.

Anyone can succeed in this great country of ours. Right now all you have to do is invent an I-phone application and sell a million of them to be well off.

Invent google or face book.

My God, Donald Trump does not strike me as an intelligent man and look at all the things he has accomplished.

The thing is, these protesters detest anyone who is sucessful.

Typical class warfare demonetization by the progressive Liberals on steroids.

 

[Revoltingest]

But he really is, by historical standards, right of Reagan. The last liberal president we had -- by today's standards -- was Nixon. eek

Hmmm.....how do you arrive at that?

And my pole is actually just three metres, my parochial friend.

3 what?

 

[Valjean]

Richard Nixon: America’s Greatest Liberal

Clearly a left wing socialist (by today's standards)

 

[Revoltingest]

Richard Nixon: America’s Greatest Liberal
Clearly a left wing socialist (by today's standards)

I have no argument with Nixon's being a big ole lefty. His cancelling the draft was even libertarian.
I dispute the statement that Obama is to the right of Reagan.


Breaking news!
Fabulously wealthy former movie star stops by protest on her way to lavish Italy vacation!
http://www.nydailynews.com//ny_loca..._power_susan_sarandon_shows_up_at_demons.html
Will star power save the protests from fizzling out?

 

[Sunstone]

The thing is, these protesters detest anyone who is sucessful.

Typical class warfare demonetization by the progressive Liberals on steroids.

Source and evidence?

 

[Alceste]

My my my, where to begin.......

People came to this country to reap the benefits of their hard work and sacrifice.

People came to this country to have religious freedom.

They traveled so far and gave up so much to start a new beginning for a better life.

A better life means keeping the fruits of your labor and achieving more.

I guess our forefathers where greedy religious nuts! :ignore:

What is wrong with American exceptionalism?

Once upon a time you where born unto your class with no hope of ever climbing to the top.

Anyone can succeed in this great country of ours. Right now all you have to do is invent an I-phone application and sell a million of them to be well off.

Invent google or face book.

My God, Donald Trump does not strike me as an intelligent man and look at all the things he has accomplished.

The thing is, these protesters detest anyone who is sucessful.

Typical class warfare demonetization by the progressive Liberals on steroids.

Actually, social mobility in the US ranks close to the bottom of most OECD nations.
http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/2/7/45002641.pdf

So there's that.

Nice poem though. :clap: I can tell you're really feelin' it, regardless of the facts. I can put that to music, for a fee.

 

[Alceste]

I have no argument with Nixon's being a big ole lefty. His cancelling the draft was even libertarian.
I dispute the statement that Obama is to the right of Reagan.


Breaking news!
Fabulously wealthy former movie star stops by protest on her way to lavish Italy vacation!
Wall Street protests get a boost of star power, Susan Sarandon shows up at demonstration
Will star power save the protests from fizzling out?

No, but the media presence probably saved a few peaceful protesters from getting bludgeoned and pepper sprayed in the face by the police for a few minutes.

 

[Kathryn]

By the way - one in five American homeowners are NOT in danger of losing their homes or foreclosure.

The foreclosure rate in the US is about 1 in 570.

Not one in five.

Five states account for 53 percent of all US foreclosures. They are - Nevada, California, Arizona, Georgia, and Idaho.

10 States With the Highest Foreclosure Rates | Realtor Magazine

 

[Alceste]

By the way - one in five American homeowners are NOT in danger of losing their homes or foreclosure.

The foreclosure rate in the US is about 1 in 570.

Not one in five.

Five states account for 53 percent of all US foreclosures. They are - Nevada, California, Arizona, Georgia, and Idaho.

10 States With the Highest Foreclosure Rates | Realtor Magazine

Ah, well I might have been remembering a statistic from a certain city or state. OTOH, 1 in 570 sounds REALLY low for a national average. There are only 300 million Americans. About 3 million homes had already been repossessed by January of this year - projected to be 6 million by 2013. Even if every single man, woman and child in America held the title to a house, the foreclosure rate would still be one in a hundred. How many houses does each American own?

Foreclosure Filings in U.S. May Jump 20% From Record 2010 as Crisis Peaks - Bloomberg

 

[Falvlun]

I hadn't even heard about the protests until seeing this thread. I guess that says something.

 

[Valjean]

Did you hear about the pipeline protests at the white house? http://www.usatoday.com/money/indus...uring-pipeline-protest-at-White-House/5023187

The media report on far right activities and issues, portray the center right as the left and ignore the middle and the actual left.